Microsoft cost-cutting to blame for Xbox 360 Red Ring Of Death
The Red Ring of Death problem which has plagued Microsoft and loyal Xbox 360 owners since its release back in November 2005 has not only cost the company $1 billion, it has also harmed the company’s reputation for customer service, which was already rock bottom anyway. However, who to blame for the RRoD overheating problem was never really revealed, at least until now.
The cause of the Red Ring of Death was already known to be related to the graphics chip set, and overheating, but until now, Microsoft hadn’t revealed which company was to blame. It turns out that rather than being a chip manufacturer, it was Microsoft itself, and it only happened due to an attempt at cost-cutting.
EETimes reports how Bryan Lewis, research vice president and chief analyst at Gartner, discussed the problem at the recent Design Automation Conference. He offhandedly revealed when and how the problem happened, and the way Microsoft basically initiated the problem itself.
It seems that Microsoft wanted to avoid an ASIC vendor in the manufacture of the first batch of Xbox 360s. So the company designed the graphic chip itself, taking a basic build from ATI, and adding some of its own bits and pieces, then sending it out for manufacture with fingers well and truly crossed.
According to Register, when the Xbox 360 was first released, some gadget loving freaks took the thing apart, and did indeed find that both the GPU and CPU inside the console were stamped with the Microsoft logo.
This was done in an attempt to save millions of dollars, but as we all know, when the problem came to light, Microsoft had to spend $1 billion on a worldwide recall campaign.
The problem has since been fixed, at least on new consoles, after Microsoft went back to a chip manufacturer in the US, thought to be ATI, with its tail between its legs and asked the experts to do the job that they should have been charged with in the first place.
The Red Ring of Death has been a major blow for Microsoft this generation, as I hate to think how many gamers were put off buying an Xbox 360 after seeing their friends having to return their consoles for a replacement, again, and again, and again. Reliability is definitely an issue that bothers gamers, and Microsoft’s cost-cutting ensured that the Xbox is forever to be known as the most unreliable console ever produced.
Although the new chipsets, including the current Falcon, and the future Jasper and Valhalla builds should ensure the problem never rears its ugly head in the future, gamers are still experiencing problems with system resource heavy games such as Grand Theft Auto IV.
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June 11th, 2008
EXACTLY…I KNEW IT ALL ALONG….ITS BECAUSE MICROSOFT CANT MAKE A SYSTEM RIGHT…The only thing they can make is simple software…a teenager can make software…and yet bill gets so much money for it…..windows it the crappiest computer software yet
June 11th, 2008
wow dave..your hatred of ms is palpable. it’s has discredited your very writing and credibility. wtf? did bill g kill your dog or something? i was impressed with ms’ customer service and willingness to replace my 360 with the RROD.
and no…you little fanboy…the ps2 still IS the most unreliable console in history… but then again…that’s a fact based on sony’s refusal to own up to a ps2 problem and sony’s lack of customer support. we all know how much you hate facts, dave.
still waiting for you explain how ms lost it’s position in the gaming industry that you claimed in your other b.s. story….
thanks for underscoring why the professonal media pundits look at bloggers like un-educated, ill-informed, kids. nice job.
June 11th, 2008
lol kevin u proved the point of the article yourself within your first paragraph. The point is that a product shouldn’t fail, no matter how impressive customer service is. Thats the most ridiculous comment i’ve ever seen on here Kevin, your slipping.
im guessing customer service was so good because its had to deal with so many issues of RROD and the i’m guessing the training has been to deal with how to handle RROD as its such a huge issue of microsoft.
im glad i own no product of microsoft anymore, 360 was the last straw and i wont be returning for a long while.
June 11th, 2008
Good customer service isn’t replacing your 360 when it breaks, it’s building a product that won’t break in the 1st place. If you think shipping your console off and being without anything to play games on, watch movies on, play music on for a month at a time is a good thing you’re a complete shitdick.
June 11th, 2008
Kevin
Yeah MS has amazing customer service.
Give us your fucked up 360 and we’ll return it in about 3 months.
June 11th, 2008
Kev, we all know they swapped your RROD unit fast because it was a known issue.
If the failure rate wasn’t astronimical it would’ve been much harder.
That said, Kudos to MS for extending warranty’s etc. That was the right thing to do.
It almost makes up for the shoddy corner/cost cutting design that created the need for the extended support in the first place.
So remember kids, next time you buy a 360, get the attendant to crack the bastard open and make sure those chips aren’t stamped with an MS logo!
June 11th, 2008
bourne – good luck finding ANY error free piece of tech. especially one that’s the first of it’s kind in the market. (tri core processor).
i just wonder why you don’t hold sony accountable on the level you do MS when sony released a junky ps2 to the masses then claimed nothing was wrong.
hammy/prfreak – first learn what customer service is, then try to understand dave’s article. good gawd this place is getting dumber by the day. hint: customer servics is NOT production…
gawd dave…your readership sure is on the top of the food chain… lmao…
June 11th, 2008
“i just wonder why you don’t hold sony accountable on the level you do MS”
Maybe because the rest of the world has moved on to CURRENT issues?
Kevin the Walking Double Standard strikes again…
-Arvis
June 11th, 2008
arvis – current issue is that ms is correcting the mistake. but, bah…who wants to give them credibility for integrity, right?
you really have no idea what double standards are, do you ?
thanks for proving my point about the readership.
June 11th, 2008
“you really have no idea what double standards are, do you ?”
…says the person who just misused a simple word like “credibility.”
You blast others for the same thing you yourself are guilty of. That’s a double standard. That’s hypocrisy. I’m not trying to insult you. I’m just calling it like I see it. I’d like to be proven wrong.
And for the record, “credibility” is something earned, not given.
-Arvis
June 11th, 2008
This is retarded.
Anyone ever heard of ROHS?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROHS
This is why the Xbox failed, because they had to be compliant with this retarded restricted substances directive from the liberal EU. Therefore they had to use higher temperature soldering techniques, which in case cause a weaker solder connections. Which in case caused the GPU to lose its connection to the PCB.
You want someone to blame? Blame Europe.
June 11th, 2008
On that wikipedia article, read specifically “effects on reliability”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROHS#Effect_on_reliability
All hail Marxism!
June 11th, 2008
Jonathan,
Good find, but why doesn’t this affect any of the other consoles?
-Arvis
June 11th, 2008
Kevin, customer service begins with design & manufacturing standards not just in dealing with the customer nicely when the product is defective. Replacing your console no-questions-asked still leaves you without a console for at least a month or longer. I thought you love your xbox and play it constantly so how are you okay with your console being gone for such a long time while they’re shipping you another unit?
June 11th, 2008
Cause they came out a year later and PS3 so overkilled the heatsink. Have you ever taken a PS3 apart? 90% of the interior is a heatsink. Good job Sony, but they had another year to see the impacts of the new ROHS restrictions. Therefore they were able to see the possible issue.
MS couldn’t see this issue coming since they launched right before having to be compliant. Therefore since they had to create a console that was compliant with stupid ROHS .5 years before ROHS compliancy was even finalized, the possible issues that could arise were not evident.
What’s truely courageous about all this issue is to see how MS responded to it. Taking a $1.15B hit for you and me.
June 11th, 2008
Well, I think if you want to push blame around, you should push it on the companies that manufactured the machine. They obviously weren’t on the ball with their manufacturing techniques.
“What’s truely courageous about all this issue is to see how MS responded to it”
I’d hardly call it courageous, it was the only thing they could possibly do that would give consumers and the media confidence in the 360 (e.g. if it breaks after a year, you’re not fucked).
A heroic company for sure. Now what’s this I hear about refurb. machines?…..
June 11th, 2008
Jonathan,
“Courageous” is definitely a stretch. They did what they had to do to save face. There’s no such thing as a “courageous” multinational corporation. There is always a bottom line.
-Arvis
June 12th, 2008
wow Arvis . . . your true liberal colors come out. What’s wrong with multinational corporations? Sony is a multinational corporation, I’ll bet you have lots of sony price, and I’ll bet you enjoy the low “bottom line” they provide you with good pricing.
Microsoft is multinational . . .
Coca Cola is multinational . . .
All these are evil because they believe in making a profit?
But look at what they all provide us with?
I’ll bet Wal-mart’s worse than Hitler.
June 12th, 2008
political debate over video games? wtf how did it come to this?
June 12th, 2008
pfreak – you need to learn what customer SERVICE is. if you want to call the designers and engineers “customer service” go ahead but i’m certain they won’t agree. your lips are too tightly attached to sony to see reality. good luck with that. btw; you DO know ms outsources their customer service, right? so if you don’t like the customer service, why blame MS?
sw – actually, ms could have rolled the dice and ignored the prob like sony did last gen. But, they took the ethical route, and get crucified by you pseudo gamers for it. rich.
arvis – you’re waaaaay off base. sony didn’t take the courageous route last gen. they placed ALL blame on the owner until FORCED by the courts to do something. very big difference. I’m a liberal (for the most part) but disagree about there not being courageous multinational companies.
June 12th, 2008
Sorry Bourne and Arvis . . .
one shouldn’t drink and post at the same time . . .
hehe I stand by my statements though
June 12th, 2008
“get crucified by you pseudo gamers for it. rich.”
So I’m just going to ignore the ‘pseudo gamer’ part because it makes you look a tad silly.
I’ve never known a PS2 fail once thru friend, I’ve known about 20 360’s fail and rising. That is why people are crucifying MS.
It also really makes xbots mad
June 12th, 2008
I don’t even care. If anything goes wrong my 360 is back in a week and I got a 3 year warrenty. For all of Microsofts wrongs and for being ambitious, trying to beat Sony at it’s own game is OK with me because Microsoft at least does more for it custimers then Sony. Call it a learning lesson and move on because we all know that the next system that comes from Microsoft will be Bad Ass. The 360 outshines the PS3/Wii in Games, Online, Movie and TV Downloads, Demos, Arcade, and Trailers. So what is RROD really but a 1 week headache. At least Microsoft can give a warrenty and own upto it unlike the PS2 which Sony never owned up to.
June 12th, 2008
no johnathon, i think its just pathetic that you reduce this debate (believe it or not this is what it is) to a political nonsense.
I actually respect Kevin compared to you and a few others (even though i disagree with most things he says) as he raises decent issues regarding the topic which either make for some decent arguing, or entertainment.
June 12th, 2008
no johnathan, i think its just pathetic that you reduce this debate (believe it or not this is what it is) to a political nonsense.
I actually respect Kevin compared to you and a few others (even though i disagree with most things he says) as he raises decent issues regarding the topic which either make for some decent arguing, or entertainment.
June 12th, 2008
sw – ANY person thinking the ps3 is the better gaming console with less games, subpar online, rumbleless controller, and weaker graphics than the 360 is a pseudo gamer. the 360 is clearly the better gaming machine while you clowns say it’s not becuase the ps3 has movie (non-game related) playback.
while you may not have had a ps2 break on you, enough did to force sony to do something about it. and to this day, they STILL refuse to ever acknowledge a problem. not the kind of company you want to be rooting for.
June 12th, 2008
jonathan – yeh sure blame Europe, why not, everyone else seems to hate us these days :/
and I’ve never even heard about PS2 being unreliable, not once have any of my friends had to send back their PS2, and thats a lot of people, almost everyone had a PS2. And although you fail to acknowledge it kevin and CAD, MS sold you a console knowing full well what could happen, they sold you a console that would very likely break easily. In no way shape or form can you call that a ‘credible’ company. Even if their customer service was top knotch (which it isnt) it still wouldn’t make up for that cold hard fact. Time to face up to it guys… or you could continue to blindy ignore it and stick to your fanboy-ish ways?
June 12th, 2008
Bourne you’re an idiot. Read my post above as to why this debate is pointless. EU’s fault, ROHS reason for failures.
MS recognized this, and did everything they possibly could do to set it right. You see any place they’re lacking in the fixing of this EU imposed problem?
June 12th, 2008
ROBB
you don’t make any sense. . . Why would Microsoft “knowingly” ship out a defective console . . . If they “knowingly” did . . .did they do so because they Wanted to write off $1,150,000,000??
They thought . . . “hey . . . let’s hurt our bottom line!”
and then the rest all cheered “To hell with profits! Horaah!”
June 12th, 2008
You Ps3 morons are a little disappointing . . you don’t get as angry as the PS3 dorks on this website:
http://www.psxextreme.com/ps3-news/3216.html
Man . . you guys are really pissed about the Square Enix thing huh?
Sorry . . follow the money . . follow the attach rate. Sony sucks in both cases.
June 12th, 2008
@ Jonathan
M$ said te hell with profits back when they released the Xbox! It hasn’t made a profit yet. Besides I think Robb was actually referring to the original blog which said that they knew of the possibility and kept their fingers crossed that nothing would go wrong. Whether that is true or not- who knows, I don’t rely on this site for too much credible information.
June 12th, 2008
Wylie, interesting. MS came into a Sony dominated field, and in one cycle turned that domination completely on its head.
Think of that similar to if everyone you knew argued over what was better, Ipod, or Zune?
However, in the console space they have done just that.
As for profits:
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=190522
June 12th, 2008
robb – how can a first-of-its-kind piece of tech “knowingly” have flaws? you do realize if any of what you said was true, the world would know they did so “knowingly” and NOT just the single fanboy on a tech website, right?
you fabricate too much. buh-bye credibility. nice job.
wylie – ms reported a profitable quarter after the release of halo2. sorry.
June 12th, 2008
Robb
That is a stupid statement to make that Microsoft knew about the problem and they still shipped the 360. RROD did not even show up until a year after launch. The fact that Microsoft did something about it and gave a 3 year warrenty is much better then Sonly not owning upto the PS2 unreliability. So what if they never came out and said what really was the problem as long as Microsoft is being proactive about it is all that matters. Microsoft does more more for it’s customers like getting ecluusive content, free arcade titles, timed exclusives on games, downloadable content, paying the bill so we can have rumble in our controllers, at least Microsoft spend Money on us. Sony spent Money securing Bluray and forgot about the gamers. Now there playing catch up and have nothing but promises.
June 12th, 2008
@ kevin & jonathan
I’m not here to get into a heated debate because no one on this site will change another persons view of what console is for them. I couldn’t access the site you provided right now, however, I understand that there was a profit in the 2nd quarter, but I don’t believe that that is accounting for losses the original Xbox inccurred. I was more talking there gaming division in its lifespan, not just one quarter. Either way I could care less. Billy boy will make money one way or another! I just get tired of you two jumping down people’s throats because they read what they think is an actual article and quote in their post(rob). You should go back to questioning Dave Parracks credibility he’s the one who put the idea out there that Microsoft new there could be a problem and just crossed their fingers.
June 12th, 2008
Why do we seem to have this unending debate about how much better the PS3 is than the Xbox?
Here’s from IGN in 2005 . . see how correct they were back then:
When you break down the numbers, Xbox 360 has more performance than PS3. Keep in mind that Sony has a track record of over promising and under delivering on technical performance. The truth is that both systems pack a lot of power for high definition games and entertainment.
Also from their breakdown: The memory system bandwidth in Xbox 360 exceeds the PS3’s by five times.
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p1.html
Sony . . . over promising and under delivering . . .
Sony fanbois . . . still standing there with their pants down. Morons.
June 12th, 2008
Source from a non biased site I see Jonathan, just like yourself…..lol
Delivered fine for me and I’ve played/used both systems. Have you?
Must be all that EXTRA perfomance (LOL) that was making the 360 crash and burn.
It is funny how you guys seem to forget he 12months + head start Microsoft had, no mention of that from you guys and then you call it “Domination” But turn the argument around and you all remember the 12months+ “extra” development time Sony has had to stop console failures….use the arguments when it suits eh, boys.
PS3 sales aren’t “that far” behind 360, and thats with a 12month+ head start for 360…pretty embarressing fro Microsoft I would say. But feel free to call it a “Domination” if you wish.
June 13th, 2008
Im sorry?? PS2 the most unreliable in HISTORY!!
Really?? let me say the same thing 360 owners say… I ought my console in 2003… MODDED it… NO PROBLEMS FOR FIVE GODDAM YEARS!!! not even when I played GTA… San Andreas on it xD
By the way… the first time I heard about PS2 “unreliabilty” was from you kevin… so thank you… and where did I hear RRODs?? ALL OVER THE FREAKKIN INTERNET!!
Cant buy publicity like that…. I would say IN MY OWN LAYMAN OPINION.. that the RROD caused a LOT more problems than the PS2 one… first of all… because I had to fix my 360 TWICE… and I didnt have to do anything to my PS2… but then again.. its just me…
June 13th, 2008
You are lucky dwh, my brother has become a self titled “ps2 genious tech,” as he had to take apart the two PS2s he’s owned several times each.
He has a trick to fix them which involves a kipper, baseball bat, and a lot of hair gel. Any ways – he has to take them apart and fix them why? oh right . . . cause he doesn’t have to worry about voiding a warranty.
MS warrants their products.
June 13th, 2008
dwh- the ENTIRE gaming community knows about the ps2’s problems last gen. just because you’re new to this doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
robb – i’d love to see some proof ms knowlingly shipped a defective console. i don’t know where you pulled this tidbit of info from, but i have an idea it doesn’t smell very well. next time, just say, “in my opinion…”, otherwise you look dumber than you already do. thanks.
June 13th, 2008
Wii FTW woo hhaaaa yeah not enough talk about the wii ooohh yeah bring the wii fit on.
Anyway yeah i havent heard of a ps2 breaking i had three, and they still work to day, not saying it never happened though. What Robb ment i think was that microsoft made some changes to save money and c**ked it all up. really i have a ps3 and will get a 360 for their exclusives, i’m a true gamer lol.
June 13th, 2008
dwh – it’s hilarious you admit to buying MODDED 360’s then blame MS when they go down. pathetic.
June 14th, 2008
Nah Kev, 360 break very efficiently on their own. They do’t need any help.
But you can make more excuses for them if you wish.
June 14th, 2008
spidey – i’ve NEVER made excuses for ms. only that you ps3 fans make us gamers look like hypocritical fools. you can blame ms for taking ownership, but forgive sony for blaming the gamer.
but really, if you buy an illegal ANYTHING it’s moronic to blame the manufacturer, especially when it’s already been messed with.
good gawd..i can’t believe i had to explain that to you…
August 23rd, 2008
kevin the xbox 360 is in no means the more powerful console
look at the specs
CPU: Cell Processor
PowerPC-base Core @3.2GHz
1 VMX vector unit per core
512KB L2 cache
7 x SPE @3.2GHz
7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs
7 x 256KB SRAM for SPE
* 1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy total floating point performance: 218 GFLOPS
GPU: RSX @550MHz
1.8 TFLOPS floating point performance
Full HD (up to 1080p) x 2 channels
Multi-way programmable parallel floating point shader pipelines
Sound: Dolby 5.1ch, DTS, LPCM, etc. (Cell-base processing)
Memory:
256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz
256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz
System Bandwidth:
Main RAM: 25.6GB/s
VRAM: 22.4GB/s
RSX: 20GB/s (write) + 15GB/s (read)
SB: 2.5GB/s (write) + 2.5GB/s (read)
System Floating Point Performance: 2 TFLOPS
Storage:
HDD
Detachable 2.5” HDD slot x 1
I/O:
USB: Front x 4, Rear x 2 (USB2.0)
Memory Stick: standard/Duo, PRO x 1
SD: standard/mini x 1
CompactFlash: (Type I, II) x 1
Communication: Ethernet (10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX, 1000BASE-T) x3 (input x 1 + output x 2)
Wi-Fi: IEEE 802.11 b/g
Bluetooth: Bluetooth 2.0 (EDR)
Controller:
Bluetooth (up to 7)
USB2.0 (wired)
Wi-Fi (PSP®)
Network (over IP)
AV Output:
Screen size: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p
HDMI: HDMI out x 2
Analog: AV MULTI OUT x 1
Digital audio: DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL) x 1
Xbox 360 Specs
Custom IBM PowerPC-based CPU 3 symmetrical cores running at 3.2 GHz each
2 hardware threads per core; 6 hardware threads total
1 VMX-128 vector unit per core; 3 total
128 VMX-128 registers per hardware thread
1 MB L2 cache
CPU Game Math Performance 9 billion dot product operations per second
Custom ATI Graphics Processor 500 MHz
10 MB embedded DRAM
48-way parallel floating-point dynamically-scheduled shader pipelines
Unified shader architecture
Polygon Performance 500 million triangles per second
Pixel Fill Rate 16 gigasamples per second fillrate using 4X MSAA
Shader Performance 48 billion shader operations per second
Memory 512 MB GDDR3 RAM
700 MHz DDR
Unified memory architecture
Memory Bandwidth 22.4 GB/s memory interface bus bandwidth
256 GB/s memory bandwidth to EDRAM
21.6 GB/s front-side bus
Overall System Floating-Point Performance 1 TFLOP
Storage Detachable and upgradeable 20 GB hard drive
12X dual-layer DVD-ROM
Memory unit support starting at 64 MB
I/O Support for up to 4 wireless game controllers
3 USB 2.0 ports
2 memory unit slots
Optimized for Online Instant, out-of-the-box access to Xbox Live features, including Xbox Live Marketplace for downloadable content, Gamer Profile for digital identity and voice chat to talk to friends while playing games, watching movies or listening to music
Built in Ethernet Port
Wi-Fi Ready: 802.11 A, B and G
Video Camera Ready
Digital Media Support Support for DVD-Video, DVD-ROM, DVD-R/RW, DVD+R/RW, CD-DA, CD-ROM, CD-R, CD-RW, WMA CD, MP3 CD, JPEG Photo CD
Stream media from portable music devices, digital cameras, Windows XP PCs
Rip music to Xbox 360 hard drive
Custom playlists in every game
Windows Media Center Extender built in
Interactive, full screen 3D visualizers
HD Game Support All games supported at 16:9, 720p and 1080i, anti-aliasing
Standard definition and high definition video output supported
Audio Multichannel surround sound output
Supports 48 KHz 16-bit audio
320 independent decompression channels
32-bit audio processing
Over 256 audio channels