Naughty Dog: Edge tools make PS3 games better than Xbox 360 games
According to Naughty Dog studio’s co-Lead Designer, Richard Lemarchand, Edge tools will make the PS3 version of multiplatform games better than the rival console’s such as the Xbox 360. Apparently these tools are designed ground up to fully take advantage of the eight specific core like processors on the Cell.
This is a topic that I have great interest in, as many of you out there probably do as well. According to Sony first party studios and as we have heard from John Carmack recently, the PS3 is suppose to have this awesome theoretical power hidden under the black shiny cool exterior.
I have had the Xbox 360 since day one and have been enjoying the great quality next gen titles such as Gears of War, one of my favorite (as many of you may know). When the PS3 launched one of the reasons that made me purchase the PS3 besides the prospect of playing Metal Gear Solid 4 of course was the potential I saw in it.
When I was in the preliminary research phase of purchasing the PS3, the one fact that caught my attention was the sheer raw FLOPS (Floating Point Operations per Second) it was capable of. An amazing 2 TeraFLOPS which is equivalent to a trillion things it could do per second!
As some of you may know I’m a mild mannered Sr. Software Engineer by day, and a complete tech junkie by night, so of course after researching the technical prospects of the PS3 hardware I had to have one during launch. Also at that time optimizing application code for multi-core technology was picking up in the IT sector for consumer applications, creating C# .Net and J2EE applications optimized on multi-core processors were a painstaking process because of lack of knowledge at that time.
When I hear stories from video game developers complain about the PS3 architecture it reminds me of the times when IT companies had to go through growing pains with new technology. Of course today leveraging multi-core applications are a cinch with tools built right into the IDEs (Integrated Development Environment) and it really doesn’t quite compare to what video game developers have to do with the daunting task of leveraging code throughout seven of the eight SPUs.
However when Naughty Dog’s Lemarchand talks about how creating the Edge tools were a joint effort between Naughty Dog and other teams within Sony; to leverage the Cell technology more efficiently not only for first party but third party developers as well. To me, that just indicates the incredible progress these guys were able to make.
“There’s a set of tools called Edge that were developed on the Naughty Dog premises, actually, by a group of very, very senior games programmer, some from Naughty Dog and some from elsewhere. I think it’s tremendously visionary of Sony to make these tools, which are largely low-level libraries.”
“It’s code that runs on SPUs, and it’s to do with things like animation compression, generalised compression and rendering optimisations. These guys are really old-school programmers: guys who are always looking to shave another cycle off an operation. And part of the skill of developing for the PlayStation 3 is getting the GPU to farm jobs out to the six SPUs – seeing which SPUs are idling and can take up some of the slack in a frame-to-frame kind of way.”
Naughty Dog’s Uncharted Drake’s Fortune is hailed by many, and even referred to by Shane Satterfield, Senior Editor of Gametrailers as the best looking video game to date. I agree the visuals and textures of Drake’s Fortune, is yet to be paralleled with what is out currently. Which makes Lemrchand’s next revelation even more surprising:
“That’s why we think we’re probably only using 30 or 40 per cent of the power of the PS3 right now, and there’s this great, untapped potential. All third-party developers can get the Edge libraries for free and are going to be able to use them in their own ways, to get more and more and more out of the PS3 over the years.”
Only 30 to 40% of the PS3 power? That really is something coming from a video game designer. I have always had high hopes that eventually we will get to see things that are much more spectacular on the PS3 that comes closer to realism then we ever imagined. It seems like Sony’s first party studios have given us just a glimpse of the the PS3’s hardware capabilities such as Naughty Dog’s Drake’s Fortune, and Guerrilla Game’s Killzone 2 but we have yet to seem many third party studios come to the level of these first party studios.
Apparently according to Lemrchand another reason the first party developers at Sony are excelling so much is because they literally rub elbows with some of the best in the industry:
“We have this culture of open communication: we like to trade stories about what we found were ways of doing things that worked, and what didn’t. We’re always trading war-stories with Insomniac and Evolution and Sucker Punch. We’re just one block away from Sony Santa Monica – the guys who made God Of War – and we get our designers together with theirs for formal lunches, and just talk about tools, design approaches and so on. So there’s this town square feeling of everybody trading stories about our best practices, and I think it makes everybody stronger and smarter.”
I strongly feel in this console generation there are just so many good games coming out on the hardcore systems the Xbox 360 and the PS3, and you have to own both systems to truly get the whole package.
I’ll be brutally honest, if you love video games and you don’t own both consoles you are just shafting yourself and nobody else, because ultimately both consoles are doing well and will continue to do well regardless what any fanboy does. So don’t stand still, or you’ll miss out.
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31 Responses to “Naughty Dog: Edge tools make PS3 games better than Xbox 360 games”
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August 6th, 2008
Damn, i knew i should of picked up Uncharted…was on sale as well…
Anyways, if naughty dog are telling the truth…and thats a big if… then thats pretty amazing. Hopefully Crysis like visuals coming to the PS3.
August 6th, 2008
Promises and more Promises. Well see if it produces better graphics. So what game is slated to take advantage of this new technology?
August 6th, 2008
So where is the interview where Rare talks about the 360?
August 6th, 2008
VideoGamer.com: The games you’re doing now for the 360 that are coming out soon, Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts and Viva Piñata: Trouble in Paradise, are they pushing the 360 as far as it can go?
Nick Burton: You never can push them as far as they can go. The reality of the peak performance of the console is yes, you could look to a generation beyond where we are now and think, yeah, I could use that power. But the reality is in 360 and the PS3 and the latest generation PC graphics, the amount of power in the GPUs is such that you’re more bound by your creativity and the aesthetic you’re going for than you’re really bound by polygon pushing power. You’re probably actually more bound maybe by art authoring and the amount of data throughput that, just the amount of memory you’d need, but I don’t think 360 has reached its limit.
If you see some of the stuff we’ve done, in fact some of the stuff our guys have done, the GPU particle systems and things like, some of our guys have been working on the geometric style real time radiosity. Even at the start of this generation, if you’d said to me, without actually me just looking at it and you were asking me off the cuff as a graphics programmer, could that happen, I’d have said no. And then you think, well, what’s going to come next? You can still keep pushing it and pushing it and pushing it.
Mike, I know you will delete this but Too badd.
August 6th, 2008
Apparently is a week long interview with Nick Burton from Rare and so far there has been 2 parts. Enjoy!
http://www.videogamer.com/features/article/04-08-2008-481.html
August 6th, 2008
Wow Cad, do you think you work for Blorge now?
4 posts in a row, you must be going for the record!
August 6th, 2008
And you ruined his chance at a record Wylie!
So, CAD, well and good and all, but if Naughty Dog says they only used 30% to 40% of the power of the PS3 (creating what is by practically all accounts the best looking game to date), the question to Mr. Burton ought to be “what percentage of the power of the 360 are your games using?” And knowing that percentage, then, how does the community think that game compares visually to Uncharted?
August 6th, 2008
I’m making my own article. :>)
August 6th, 2008
i’ve played crysis, and it has really nice graphics details of the leaves and shadows are really nice, but once i see an enemy and begin firing my weapon, all these greatness in the graphics disappears. so what if the leaves around me looks real, I just want to kill this annoying enemy.. sth like that.. anyway, this 30-40% power i am seeing in PS3 games looks nice already, i think that much power is good enough. I am not interested in seeing solid snake’s pores because of graphical power. lol.. =)
August 6th, 2008
Nick Burton said that if you asked him if it was possible that certain things can happen in the begining then he would have siad no but that the limit is unknow and that they keep pushing and Pushing the system. Therefore can a systems potential be really measured?
August 6th, 2008
MGS
I agree. I don’t want real life looking graphics. I want to feel like I’m playing something created. Somethig imagianary and fantasy. I don’t care if it’s cartoon I rather something that is graphically beautiful but as for life like graphics I could care less. I don’t even think that can get life like yet.
August 6th, 2008
CAD, i agree. if a game has life like graphics, good. if not, but its graphics are comparable to PS3’s or 360’s then it is still good. for me, it won’t make that much difference anyway. =p nice graphics are just a plus.. how do you think a game for PS4 looks like? i don’t think it will overshadow what the PS3 can offer in terms of graphics. it seems that every generation, the graphical difference from one generation to the next is becoming smaller as time passes. are we reaching the threshold in terms of graphical power?
August 6th, 2008
Threshold? Are you serious? You HONESTLY think PS3 looks little better than PS2, or X360 looks little better than Xbox? Are you for real???
The current consoles are using 3 to 4 year old graphics technology. The latest PC gaming rigs can use triple head SLI. Consoles aren’t even CLOSE to the graphical capabilities of todays hardware, let alone what will be available several years from now. The trick will be if developers can still make graphics that are immersive 5 years from now, when the hardware is very dated but the gameplay demands have progressed by that much time.
August 6th, 2008
CAD,
“I don’t want real life looking graphics. I want to feel like I’m playing something created. Somethig imagianary and fantasy.”
You should love Uncharted then. Compare it to other titles like Gears. Uncharted has brighter, more vibrant environments, sharper colors (more of them, too), and much better light and shading. Gears nails that dull, gritty, “realistic” look, but Uncharted shows us what a video game SHOULD look like.
-Arvis
August 6th, 2008
Arvis,
I think both are beautiful and I also think that the two have different themes and backgrounds. Uncahrted is set in a Jungle and Gears is, Well Gears has a lot of different backgrounds but it’s more like ruins and broken down cities and Underground and stuff like that. But Beauty is only 1 aspect. The real grit of games comes from game play. This is where the two differ. My understanding is that Uncharteded is a good game but it gets repetitive. Gears gives you something new all the time.
August 6th, 2008
CAD,
Really? I thought both did a great job of both staying fresh throughout their respective stories and having plenty of replayability and unlockables. Although I don’t care for gore, so I give my personal nod of approval to Uncharted for keeping it T-rated.
-Arvis
August 6th, 2008
Plus the great storyline, simple but brilliantly done with great characters. Spielberg and Lucas should have taken note when making Indy 4 (average but enjoyable and absolutly rubbish story, makes u think, y on earth was Frank Darabont’s script rejected?)
August 6th, 2008
CAD “Promises and more Promises. Well see if it produces better graphics. So what game is slated to take advantage of this new technology?”
It was an informative piece about someone who is programming for the PS3 and giving their expert opinion on the system. I couldn’t see anything in there about promises or any games that will be taking advantage of what they are trying to achieve.
August 6th, 2008
well.. I have to say… Uncharted IS one of the best looking games Ive seen on a console… maybe the next one could give crysis a run for their money…
keep up the good work Naughty Dog…
August 6th, 2008
i honestly think that every generation that graphical difference every generation is getting smaller. compared to the snes(2d) <<<< ps(3d), ps(edgy models) <<< p2(smoother models), ps2 << ps3(detailed models). what’s next? ps4 having really really smooth life looking models (where you can zoom in enough to see the character’s finger print)? honestly, i don’t mind playing mgs4 with mgs3 graphics, tekken6 with tekken5 graphics. etc. the value of graphics is decreasing nowadays (bigN might agree with this). the current gen’s graphical capabilities already looks good enough. so i’m not that excited how the ps4 will look. (unless in the next generation, bigN will change the gaming industry again, maybe introducing sth new like 3d gaming or VR. who knows.)
August 7th, 2008
Rhino
Naughty Dog is a Sony first party developer. So if they say anything then it has bias because Sony pays them. If it’s coming from a 3rd Party Developers then I will sit up a listen a bit more about what they have to say about development. That goes for Rare to as they are a Microsoft First Party Developer. The only difference is that Rare is allowed to develop for the DS.
August 7th, 2008
Cad- exactly..
i’m just wondering how he came to the 30-40% numbers when developers each have different offices in different parts of the world, enclosed in security guarded buildings, not accessible due to IP restrictions.
point is; those numbers were made up yet the ps3 fanboys lap it up as fact..
simply pathetic..
August 7th, 2008
It doesn’t have the power to make a hot breakfast like the 360 does!
Maybe we will see if Sony and those right with them have enough hot air to do so, though.
I’ll also agree with msg fanboy. We don’t need much, if any, more power.
In fact, more power just makes more developers feel like they need to make games look more lifelike. Mario, Brawl, Rachet and Clank, Banjo Kazooie (if the next is like the past games) are all cartoony games, not lifelike in the least, but are among the best looking and best playing games of the generations they have touched.
August 8th, 2008
it’s funny how a sony developer claims the ps3 has the potential to be a better gaming machine than the 360 when the ps3’s designer already thinks the 360 is a better gaming machine…
http://www.thebosh.com/archives/2005/05/kutaragi_playst.php
silly, naughty dog… hype is for fanboys…
August 8th, 2008
Kev- you must have posted the wrong article. First that article is 3 years old. Second, I didn’t see anywhere in the article where he said the 360 was a better gaming machine! Once again you are twisting peoples words and trying to pass it on as fact!
August 8th, 2008
WYLIE – if ms came out and said, “we never called the 360 a gaming machine”, you guys would feel different.
face it; the ps3 was NOT designed as a game machine first. want proof? the “cell” is a networking architecture, NOT designed to run gaming code as its paramount consideration.
bluray was NOT designed FOR gaming, but rather a movie format enabling larger storage.
the age of the article isn’t the isssue, but kuturagi’s OWN words…
D’OH!!!
August 8th, 2008
Kev,
I still don’t see how Kutaragi not calling the PS3 a game machine = gaming was a secondary concern. All they’re saying is that gaming wasn’t the ONLY concern when making the system and it isn’t the ONLY thing it was designed to do.
Hell, one of the first times I found myself warming up to the 360 is when I read an article about MS trying to bring tv and movies to the 360 because they wanted people to use game consoles for more than just gaming. They were trying to expand the market for consoles in general. Why is that bad?
-Arvis
August 8th, 2008
Kev- if all I wanted it for was gaming I would buy a gaming PC. So what is your point?
August 11th, 2008
wylie – pc gaming is not the same as console gaming.
arvis – bluray = NOT designed for gaming. cell = NOT designed for gaming. you do the math.
i guess you only believe sony’s word when it suits your needs…
August 19th, 2008
Naughty Dog work for Sony and always have, therefore their opinion is biased. Listen to John Carmack, he is his own boss and isn’t under pressure from some big overlord (SONY/MICROSOFT) to make biased statements. His main agenda is PC gaming and I’m fairly certain his opinion is unbiased.
December 30th, 2008
Well so much of misinformation well first of all Naughty Dog works with sony not for sony there is big difference in words with and for.
They are a first party studio just like square enix our almost entire gaming industry was in ps2 generation this does not make them less independent .
Also there is lot of untapped power in ps3 this is quite true when they say they are using 30% to 40% they mean the system load just like we see in system monitor on windows pc . Second generation ps3 title like killzone 2 are using about 60% this extra 20% make it the most
graphicaly impressive game of this generation .