Dev says Xbox 360 holding back PS3 and PC games
The Xbox 360 is reaching the end of the road with DVD9, as studios start to find the format limiting in space. Microsoft’s decision to stick with an older media format is coming back to haunt them. Not only does disc space effect the Xbox 360 version of a game, but it is starting to effect the PS3 and PC versions as well.
The DVD9 format has hampered Xbox 360 games before, such as Project Gotham Racing 4, where portions of the game had to be cut out to fit onto a single DVD. We also recently talked about how John Carmack of id Software confirmed Rage would look less impressive on the Xbox 360 due to the DVD9 format.
The guys over at 1Up recently had an opportunity to talk with id Software’s lead designer, Tim Willits, regarding Rage. Willits revealed some shocking news regarding Rage – news some gamers probably wish he hadn’t. Willits revealed Rage was originally planned to have several wastelands that could be explored.
However, due to the limitation of the DVD9, developers have cut down the wastelands to only two. Here is the real kicker; these changes were made to the PC and PS3 iterations in order to make all versions similar story-wise.
Willits said:
“I wouldn’t say the overall story was changed in any way in order to fit on the Xbox 360 version…but how the player experiences Rage’s story has been altered.”
Many gamers will not be happy to hear this, because this will mean less ‘bang for your buck’ as gameplay time has been drastically reduced. Some gamers may feel such details are better left unknown, but Carmack has indicated they are being vocal in hopes it will get Microsoft’s attention.
Willits also said:
“The PC is limitless in the amount of data you can put on it… The PS3 has about 25GB. But the Xbox 360 roughly has 6 to 8 GB of data. We’re hoping we can squeeze the game down to two discs for the 360 version.”
The PC is limitless in that every PC has a hard drive, and the PS3 also has a hard drive and a Blu-ray player as well. However, the Xbox 360 is in trouble, facing difficulty on multiple fronts regarding hard drive and media format choice. Maybe it is time for Microsoft to take notice and listen in on the developer’s concerns. One idea that has been raised is to allow for some games to have mandatory hard drive installs. However, the issue with that idea is that not all Xbox 360s contain hard drives.
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41 Responses to “Dev says Xbox 360 holding back PS3 and PC games”
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September 16th, 2008
ID’s last good game was Doom (the first one) anywhoos.
September 16th, 2008
There are multiple disc games on 360, this guy just has sand in his vagina.
September 17th, 2008
And PC Games come on…………..Oh Yeah DVD!!!! There are games that already exist with 4 disk so what the hell is he really talking about and he’s only got 2 disk and talking shit. Don’t blam 360 for your lack of Intelligence ID Software. They could have easily added more disk and this would not be an issue so don’t blame 360 for your lazieness. They probably didn’t want to write the code that it would have taken to produce the PS3 version. Oh and Dave Project Gotham 4 did not get anything cut. That issue was cleared up when Microsoft came along and introduced compression to them.
September 17th, 2008
it cost them more to have more than two disks on the 360 thats why there trying to squees it down.
Blame the 360 for it. the game is now smaler on EVRITHING .
September 17th, 2008
It’s all PR… I never heard of this game until Willits started saying that wacky stuffs.
September 17th, 2008
Bout bloody tiem, Didnt GTA get compressed for bloody 360 version? The original map was supposed to be larger, but couln’t fit in the DVD-9 i dont think.
September 17th, 2008
Xbox360 is starting to show it’s age.
Unfortunately, you will never hear something like this from other LARGER developing houses as they will truelly offend M$.
PC and PS3 give the developers the room they need to make a great looking game WITHOUT any compressesion or MULTI DISC usage.
The problem is M$ is charging the developers that go over 2 discs for their games.
I think that this is because they don’t want to look bad in the eye of the public for sticking with the DVD format.
Xbox360 Games should be cheaper because they are being made on OLD media.
Just another way M$ is nickle and diming the industry (Just like charging for the Themes and Pictures).
September 17th, 2008
I think you upset a few fan boys Mike.
I knew the 360 would hit a wall because of the DVD but taking the others with it is just wrong.
September 17th, 2008
@CAD,
*Post Deleted
I have told you before don’t post whole articles from another site in the comments section or obvious reasons.
I don’t mind you making short references but do not put up a significant portion of another sites article here.
September 17th, 2008
John D,
No thanks to 360 we get a much shorter game, talk about back peddling.
How are you going to complain about the size of DVD9 attributing to cutting out several wastelands, to this nonsense.
September 17th, 2008
Why Mike
Because I show the truth of the real interview. It would be smart of you to provide an udate but we all know which side of the fanboys you support.
September 17th, 2008
LMAO CAD. Or perhaps its that you clog gamer.blorge with needless speech, when you could just link it.
September 17th, 2008
Ok, here I see that people just forgot that Final Fantasy VII on PSX was on 3 CDs, FF VIII was on 4 discs, so I don’t see the problem in having to swap discs. Is people getting really that lazy ?? anyway is not as you have to swap discs in the middle of a battle or anything.
I admit as well that Blu-ray has more storage capacity, but I do not agree on having to install every high profile game just to speed up loading because the same Blu-ray player is not capable of. What’s great about having 25 GB if sometimes developers have to put the data twice in order to make the player read it at a constant speed and it doesn’t crack or has frame rate issues ??
A games console IS NOT A PC, so I don’t see the point in installing games, I think disc swapping is not the best but I think is better than having to erase your data when you are out of space.
I think every Xbox 360 should have a hard drive, the original did, why this one doesn’t ?? but if you can avoid installing games and just swap discs that could take you less than a minute (installing DMC 4 could take you 20 minutes) i think that’s better. If it really has to do with royalties as id Software said, then Microsoft should really cut that out, because games coming next year and so on will need that space.
September 17th, 2008
yea, comments section is for comments, not to post whole articles from other sites duh!
I don’t think there is a need for an update, Willits pretty much says the same thing in a more PR friendly way.
The fact is he even goes further and explains why an extra disc is not used due to royalty charges from Microsoft.
September 17th, 2008
Bourne
If it was as long as the list of games I once put on here then I can see the point. But it was not even that long. I see longer posts above. It just makes Mike Look bad because his article is littered with opinion that makes him look stupid when the truth comes out. I don’t like links because someone can miss the point. I myself never click on links. I’m sure I’m not alone.
September 17th, 2008
Why is it when ever i metion something in one of my comments, dave or mike write an article about it?….seriously this is the 3rd one…..im pretty sure its because i think of things that need to be realised that no notices, but me…..thats what i call thinking outside the box
September 17th, 2008
Whatever, I’ve been saying this stuff since the 360 came out. Disc swapping isn’t the problem, it’s developers not being able to fully realize their vision because of the 360’s highly “un-visionary” last-gen tech.
-Arvis
September 17th, 2008
Amen Arvis.
September 17th, 2008
Theres a BIG difference in PC games with 4 Dvds and 360 games with 4 dvds…
I thought you guys knew that…
PC games with 4 DVds.. means… you install the game… then you use ONE DVD to play the game…
if 360 games are in 4 dvds… that means you have to keep changing disks if you want to play certain stages…
You could install the games in the 360… thats another problem… there goes the “PS3 sucks cause it installs” argument… also… the 360 doesnt have virtually infinite space like the PC…
How much does the 360 HDD cost?? $150?? $50 more and you buy THE CONSOLE itself…
Things like these make me a little iffy…
What Microsoft couldve done is… now bear with me on this… they buy the license for HD Dvds… and they release the games in that format… no need to release movies in that format… just release the games… they would take more heat if they adopted the Blu Ray…
but then again… who cares… they’re not gonna do anything till Halo 4 or 5 or Geow 3 or 4 takes more than 2 dvds… untill the AAA games bitch about it… they dont care…
September 17th, 2008
@Arvis
I truly don’t see how a 3.2 GHz CPU, 512MB GDDR3 and a 500 MHz GPU can be called last-gen tech, when last-gen PS2 had a 294 MHz CPU, 32 MB RDRAM and 147 MHz GPU.
Here, read this:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=758390
Even Kojima said that he couldn’t “fully realize his vision” with the PS3, so I think we’re all at the same place at this time. Let’s see if developers get to understand the PS3 and get the “real” power out of it, if there’s really some kind of it.
September 17th, 2008
@CAD,
umm… i can see a problem with posting an article from a competitor’s site in the comments. Think about it man, its practically the same as spamming.
September 17th, 2008
jham,
The 360’s power is not under scrutiny here, rather it’s functionality. It does nothing new, it just does some old things better i.e. better graphics, better online. But it didn’t take any steps forward: it still uses old DVDs, has no extra functionality in the controller, and at launch wasn’t even capable of outputting at a higher resolution than the original Xbox. In fact, the 360 even took some steps BACKWARDS from Xbox standards: an internal hard-drive is no longer a standard feature and it’s reliability has plummeted.
This is what I meant by “last-gen tech.” I am aware that its power is a big improvement.
-Arvis
September 17th, 2008
Yeah CAD we should just believe everything u say, ur not biased at all.
CAD it’s pretty obvious DVD9 would begin to constrain games eventually.
“Because I show the truth” no, it’s smply a case of you not being able to handle the truth.
September 17th, 2008
@Arvis
Well that’s true, I certainly don’t know why they took the hard-drive out… but anyway, I don’t care as I have an Elite, he he, and I really still don’t see the big problem about using DVDs. Let’s see in a couple years if it becomes a true issue.
–
Anyway, I’m not getting a PS3 until there’s something else than LittleBigPlanet as the biggest PS3 title (WTF??). At this time all my gaming experiences are covered with my Xbox 360. Let’s see what next year has for us.
Just for the record, I’m not a MS fanboy, I hate Windows Vista, actually. I just think that the Xbox 360 is not as bad as some people want you to think. Microsoft has done some really great stuff thinking about gamers, and that’s something I really appreciate being a gamer since my early childhood. That’s something I can’t get with my “collecting-dust” Wii.
Also I’m not a Sony hater, my DVD, home theater, my digital camera, my cell phone and my 40″ LCD are Sony, I think they are great with consumer electronics, I just think they did some bad decisions about the PS3. Hopefully they’ll get back to the right path soon, and when they do that I’ll get a PS3. They really have to focus on games, that’s what a gaming console is for.
September 17th, 2008
hear hear Arvis…
MS was ahead of their time with the HDD on the Xbox… but with the “consumer chooses” SKU crap… its stupid…
And when you look at it… you pay $150 for a hard drive… another extra $50 AND YOU HAVE THE CONSOLE!
Its just ridiculous… I expected “branded” overpriced accessories from Sony… not from MS… I expect compatibility with normal HDD from the 360… cus MS has been in the PC market longer than Ps3… but thats not here nor there…
September 17th, 2008
It’s funny how the PS3 fanboys attack CAD because FERRO didn’t post the entire article, and FERRO deleted CAD’s post when he posted it.
Brad “umm… i can see a problem with posting an article from a competitor’s site in the comments.” – That is all that Ferro does!!!! He scans Kotaku and Joystiq etc and copies and pastes the articles (and leaves out the more crucial bits so the PS3 looks better than it really is).
It’s because of FERRO’s techniques and blatant bias that sites like BLORGE are not taken seriously, and is merely treated as a place for fanboys to fight.
September 17th, 2008
Things could quite easily have gone the other way if HD DVD had won the format war instead of Blue Ray.
Unfortunately from what I’ve read on other site developers are still making games on the XBox and porting them over, therefore if the game is going to fit on a DVD then that’s what the other consoles get.
Having said that there have been plenty of games that have been on multiple discs that need to be swapped, and we still did it.
While the DVD format is not dead yet, maybe developers are looking for excusses for reducing the amount of content that they put into a game, and this is the best excuse they have yet.
@CAD, welcome back, I knew you couldn’t stay away.
September 17th, 2008
@harry,
umm.. I read the original article its linking to and it doesn’t leave out any crucial bits.
I don’t think you can blame Mike for not writing about another article that came out today.
Also Kotaku and Joystiq do the same crap they copy and paste from other sources.
September 17th, 2008
Brad, sorry to burst your bubble, but Kotaku and Joystiq actually go out in the field and interview developers etc. All FERRO does is copy their work.
I have a topic for FERRO to write about. It’s based on the new Star Wars: The Force Unleashed game. The developers at Lucasarts started writing this game as the 360 as the lead console, however abandoned that as they realised that porting it to the PS3 would result in a vastly different, poorer looking game on that platform. They decided to make the PS3 the lead console as the 360 can handle PS3 ports much better than PS3 can handle the 360’s. Anyway, the game has come out, and according to Gamespot’s review, the PS3 version has more framerate issues than the 360. How is it that a port can become the superior version? Maybe FERRO can investigate that?
September 17th, 2008
Umm harry you are very mistaken,
Kotaku and joystiq actually scavanges majority of their stories and links many of their stories. I go there all the time. Almost everystory has a “Source” link below it.
Kotaku is all about “Hey look at what we found on this site… isnt this strange?” type stories
They do a pretty good job of finding odd bits of news..
That is not to say they don’t do original stories from time to time.
Even Kotaku linked 1Up for this exact same story Gamer Blorge linked to.
Shacknews also linked to 1Up for the original story.
Shacknews got the update, and 1up linked back to them.
If I recall Gamer Blorge broke news first with Gears of War 2 crashing at E3 and then later updated it with a response back from Microsoft.
Actually, just looking at the little feed thing on the side I see alot of original stories on here.
I like this site because the authors like to throw their oppinion and take on the news head on instead of the boring “sources said this and that.. End of Story”.
Actually by the majority of the comments on this site as well Shacknews and 1up most people are pissed off about this mess and nobody believes that bullcrap backpedaling.
September 17th, 2008
Perhaps Dave Parrack might do some original stuff, but FERRO doesn’t have an original bone in his body.
September 18th, 2008
i agree that the xbox 360 have a storage problem.. im pretty sure they wil adopt a bluray drive next generation, because by that time a bluray drive will be dirt cheap..common sense here more storage equal bigger and better games..
September 18th, 2008
When I read articles like this, I just beg and beg Crytek to keep their games exclusive to the Pc.
God forbid that they ever release a Crysis game on the 360..They’re gonna completely ruin the amazing Crysis experience all because you stupid americans blindly suck M$’s ass and continue to purchase that underpowered crapbox and claim its the best console out there. You people are pathetic.
When it comes to gaming machines, nothing beats the pc.
September 18th, 2008
John D, yes, it’s always those lazy programmer’s fault! haha
September 18th, 2008
Harry you god damn idiot, did u even read gamespots review? they mention that both 360 and ps3 versions are bugged with the ps3 version slightly more (y would anyone report on just one version for the bugs when TFU is full of them in all versions). Seeing as how the review was done on the ps3 version it’s extremly likely they spotted more on the ps3 version? why? BECAUSE THEY PLAYED THAT VERSION MORE DUMBASS!!!
September 18th, 2008
lol! These arguments are so funny.
It’s so… SO obvious, that id Software is getting the pay under the table for this fiasco, AND has it out for Microsoft, because this is all too big than it should be.
1) Rage looks gay, who gives a crap about this game. I don’t.
2) The game market is still cheap, the only people complaining about how the 360 is underpowered are game-whores willing to drop lots of money on their habits.
3) Where’s the cry for Wii games holding back games? Oh yea, there is none, b/c people don’t make games for the Wii. So if these devs want to cry, don’t make games for the 360, simple… Oh yea… most software is sold via the 360. So another stfu to devs.
If they want to make a grandois game, make it PS3 only if it’s so magnificent. They won’t, and know why? Because they wont make and profits. Their GREED holds back games, not a console.
Everyone wake up and smell the coffee. This is a bogus scapegoating act.
September 18th, 2008
You gay 360 fanboys. All you guys are saying rage is gay because the developer said the xbox is holding the game back. If rage was exclusive to xbox you guys wouldnt say S**t about it and even say its another great game PS3 doesnt have. Even so, when PS3 games where just ports(even if they were gay) you guys still said it was becuase xbox was better. Now the table is turned and you guys are blaming the developers. PS3 simply has more disc space while xbox has little space. It costs money to put it on Muiltiple disc( Its Not free). If it was i think MGS 4 would be on 360. Also its easier for developers to make games on xbox and PC because they have hardrives, Istalling games is not so bad when you know your getting a good game. 20 min, so i dont need to see a loading break is worth it for me and you only do it once.overall rage should be a great game to add to the ps3 lineup and Now develepers may see that it worth it to make PS3 Eexclusives.
September 18th, 2008
Why is it more expensive to put it into multiple DVDs when (at least what I’ve seen in Amazon) BD-R from Sony is about 15 US each ? I think DVDs are maybe less than a dollar each ?
Please let me know if I’m wrong
September 18th, 2008
jham – M$ charges the software company a penalty if they use more than 2 dvd for their games. It’s not the materials cost. FYI.
September 18th, 2008
On a side note, Rin. Why would you think these arguments are funny? I mean, I agree, the are funny in a sad way but your basis for amusment is also pretty sad.
1) a game that the developers say is limited due to the 360 is gay…just gay! That’s your point?
2) Game whores? Are you talking about the ‘other’ people, not locked into their allowance from mom?
3) The Wii is a different system and, believe me, they are making a ’sh*t ton’ of games for it. It just can’t compete with the same level of resource requirements. As for not making games for the 360 because they are complaining…No company in the universe is going to cut out a huge demographic because the tools suck. They’re going to work with the tools and wish that they were better.
Their GREED holds them back not the console?? Not to offend, but christ that’s dumb! YOU SAID IT, you’re just too dense to realize it. The console is holding them back and their greed makes them willing to put up with it.
I know this is just my opinion but if XBOX came out a year AFTER the PS3, M$ would be taking a bath and sales wouldn’t be anywhere near the ps3’s.
All of this aside, it really sounds like you agree but don’t want to so you’re just in denial. The XBOX is great, I love it. BUT No one is their right mind is going to say the 9 gig is as good as 50 (not 25 BTW). If storage capacity isn’t an issue then lets bring back the floppy, god knows those are really cheap!
Additionally, aside from crazy boys comment. The PS3 installation because the bd drive is slow…yes, it’s slow, it does not mean it sucks. Following that lame logic, the 3.2ghz processor that the xbox use is seriously a piece of sh*t. I mean really, it can even handle the simplest of games so they had to put in THREE OF THEM.
Best,
-KevinC
October 20th, 2008
for those that think is only two games i gat an advice revise ur homework pc and 360 will suffer do to dvd and dont say hd installation help cause u all know the quality is not the same audio,visuals,etc.in term of potential u know that ps3 got more potential and is being lock cause games for both that when 360 lead,when ps3 lead the games come out better but the quality,visuals,audio,etc suffer cause compression dont try u pc flops trying to know it all.its been 100’s of false statements by so call tech and they all been wrong.killzone2, resistance2 ,heavily sword,uncharted,gt5,ratchclank, heavy rain,etc those r facts ,the biggest one GUERRILLA