Does the Xbox 360 need saving more than the PS3?
By Dave Parrack
I know the title of this article will have some of you spitting feathers already, but hear me out. It’s important to see both sides of the story and so it’s definitely worth exploring if the Xbox 360 is the console that actually needs saving, rather than the PS3 as previously mentioned.
Yesterday, I posted a counter argument to an article on CNN which suggested the Playstation 3 was edging towards the grave. While I agreed Sony definitely needs to pull its thumb out of its arse and both cut the price and start advertising more, I disagreed with the thrust of the article claiming the PS3 is near death.
This set me thinking how it could be argued that all three of the home consoles need saving. You see, although the PS3 is the worst performing sales-wise during 2008, sales aren’t everything, especially for a company that is interested in the longterm, slow-burn potential of its products.
Could it be argued that the Xbox 360 actually needs saving more than the PS3 does? I hope so because I’m about to try and do exactly that.
The Xbox 360 is quite a considerable way ahead of the PS3 in terms of sales. I can’t spin those figures, they’re just fact. But that 7 million-unit lead is mainly down to the year head start the Microsoft console enjoyed over its Sony rival. The Wii of course proves it is possible to launch later and hurdle a competitor, but the Nintendo console is a law unto itself.
Sticking with sales, the Xbox 360 lead is mainly due to success in America. VGChartz shows that the Xbox 360 has sold almost double the quantity the PS3 has managed in the U.S. But the PS3 is winning by a huge margin in Japan and only around a million units behind in Europe. So the Xbox is still a very American-based format just like its predecessor.
But forget sales. What about everything else? Microsoft has already lowered the price of the Xbox 360 considerably and its unlikely to get any cheaper for the foreseeable future. Whereas Sony has a lot of leeway in that respect. If the price of the PS3 was cut by a fair margin, the Sony console could suddenly pick up considerably.
Then there are the games, probably the most important aspect of any console (as they should be). 2009 looks like being a much healthier year for the PS3 in terms of big-name exclusive games. There are virtually no Xbox 360 titles that I see on the way in 2009 that have system-seller potential. Instead, Microsoft has gone casual, but is ultimately destined to fail in that market when competing with the monumentally successful Wii.
Then there is Blu-ray, which the Xbox 360 doesn’t have and likely never will have. We’ve already seen how Microsoft’s decision to stick with DVDs is going to affect certain releases, and that’s a worry. But if Blu-ray takes off in 2009 in the way some people are predicting then the PS3 (hopefully newly lowered in price) becomes a must-have item. Where does that leave the Xbox 360?
I don’t actually believe the Xbox 360 needs saving. Far from it. I actually think all three home consoles are doing well enough to ensure a long and healthy generation. But if other Web sites can make stupid arguments for why certain consoles are in trouble then so can I. Tomorrow, it’s the turn of the Wii. Damn, that’s going to be tough.
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December 16th, 2008
with the lead of the 360 growing farther ahead than the ps3 everyday, i don’t see how second place needs “saving”.. that would be the last place console; the ps3…and their lost “150 million loyal ps owners”
i like this part:
“But if Blu-ray takes off in 2009 in the way some people are predicting then the PS3 (hopefully newly lowered in price) becomes a must-have item. Where does that leave the Xbox 360?
reminds me of:
“But if Blu-ray takes off in 2007 in the way some people are predicting….”
“But if Blu-ray takes off in 2008 in the way some people are predicting ….”
dave…we’ve heard all before… and guess what? the masses have spoken. bluray is a dud against competing movie services and formats…
want proof? Bluray players are on the market at less than the ps3.. and they’re not selling very well….
“There are virtually no Xbox 360 titles that I see on the way in 2009 that have system-seller potential”..
1. ninja blade looks like it could.. given the loyalty to japanese games i’d think you’d remember this one.
2. even with the “exclooosives” the ps3 is falling farther into last place everyday. exclusives just aren’t enough to spurn someone to spend $400 on the ps3. MGS4 proved that. a little spike..and that was it…. this was supposed to be THE system seller for the ps3…
but i do agree with you dave, it doesn’t really need saving…
however, next gen, ms is going have a HUGE uphill battle with the memories of quality…. they may need a lifeline at that time…
December 16th, 2008
@kev.
Blu ray was doing fine those years. It wasn’t until the format war ending and HDTV’s and blu ray stand alone players prices started coming down that we see that it’s more successful.
Blu ray is a dud compared to what competing movie services and format? Please inform us all. I hope you’re not comparing that sub DVD quality Netflix shit. Quite frankly its only competition is DVD and that has a 10 year head start. I guess that logic makes sense coming from a 360 fanbot, as it also had a head start, and I never hear you stop bragging about having more games and “exclusives”.
Blu ray is still doing better than DVD was at this point in its lifetime.
http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct=us/6-0&fp=49471eb0070dbe74&ei=v_RHSbnOJaDM8ASa-Py8DQ&url=http%3A//homemediamagazine.com/high-def/netflix-blu-ray-adoption-remarkably-strong-14062&cid=1279036389&usg=AFQjCNGB154FI_XM2nkZNlziboPYSGZbBg
http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct=us/7-0&fp=49471eb0070dbe74&ei=v_RHSbnOJaDM8ASa-Py8DQ&url=http%3A//www.dvdtown.com/news/netflix-blu-ray-demand-high/6209&cid=1279635004&usg=AFQjCNGkj2-EkLgaGEWllLgaQ8XKhWKrWQ
December 16th, 2008
PlayStation will win no doubt second place for now.
December 16th, 2008
kev… again I must ask… why dont you bring in some new arguments… same old materials… same old kev…
the 360 needs no saving… neither does the ps3… nor do the wii… they cater towards their specific type of gamer… the 360 caters to the multiplayer crowd… the ps3 to the single player… and the wii to the casual…
you do see them stepping over their boundaries… the 360 with ninja gaiden 2 and fable 2… ps3 with socom and resistance 2 and then killzone 2 soon… and the wii with madworld and no more heroes…
also ninja blade has gotten lots of heat for being filled with lots of QTE… meh… Id still buy it…
ahem… and to finish off… GOD OF WAR !!!
also kev… MGS 4 isnt the ONLY system seller for the ps3… like Halo and gears is for the 360… you cant expect every single AAA game to sell by 9 million (you can expect wii fit to sell 11 million) again…
halo and gears appeal is universal… decent story… fun gameplay… can keep you entertained for hours and years… whereas MGS has complex story and weird mechanics… which makes it not as accessible… yet… Im thankful for all of those franchises… not every game should be all action… we need diversity… pure action can only hold your attention for so long…
December 16th, 2008
Don’t worry DWH.
One day we will all concentrate on the games and not the machine(s) they’re played on!
On that day we will appreciate all games, then we can truly call ourselves gamers *sniffle*…
December 16th, 2008
It seems that when you post links it hangs up longer as opposed to just text based posts. This is more or less a test on that.
December 16th, 2008
“the 360 caters to the multiplayer crowd… the ps3 to the single player… and the wii to the casual…”
good gawd, do you fanboys just make this up as you go? seriously.. this is a joke post, right? lmao…
December 16th, 2008
“the 360 caters to the multiplayer crowd… the ps3 to the single player… and the wii to the casual…”
Damn, you’re all bored of Home already?
December 16th, 2008
I’m sure an XBox 360 gamer will be hard pressed to find a top rated console exclusive (from PS3) out of it’s 232 scheduled releases for next year, which include:
Splinter Cell Conviction
Ninja Blade
Halo Wars
Star Ocean
Dungeon Hero
Velvet Assassin
GTA IV DLC
Brutal Legend
Halo 3
Alan Wake
Banjo Tooie
Blue Dragon 2
Huxley
Mass Effect 2
Metal Slug 7
R-Type Dimensions
Sentient
Shadow of the Aten
South Park
Strike Force Red Cell
Theseis
White Gold
Not to mention a former PS3 exclusive RPG that might keep some gamers busy for a while no matter which console they have.
I will admit that God of War III is the perfect system seller for those that still have their PS2, but they are probably still waiting for that price cut and still enjoying their 300+ titles rated 80 or above.
December 16th, 2008
Bleh.
Only games ill even look at from that list are & Huxley & Metal Slug 7. Huxley is going to be on PC, so bah to Live. Mass effect 2, bah. If they overhaul it, sure.
Still there are a few I havn’t heard of so ill be checkin them out I spose.
Question, brutal legend a remake of the brutal sports games by any chance?
December 16th, 2008
“the masses have spoken”…that was my favourite bit from kev….what a moron!
The PS2 sold over 140m, the combined sales of Wii, 360 and PS3 are no-way near even 100m.
So many people (i.e. the “masses”) have yet to decide what console to buy.
I like how Xbots always seem to get off on bragging that they’re beating the guy in last place
Says it all really. They’re an insecure little bunch are our Xbots.
December 16th, 2008
Dave here is the reason why:
Sony stock slides as analysts cut ratings
Shares in Sony fell by 5.9 per cent today as two key analysts cut their earning predictions for the company and downgraded its status.
Stock closed at JPY 1825 (USD 20.20), falling significantly further than the Nikkei 225 average of 1.1 per cent, with both Credit Suisse and Deutsche Bank expressing concern at the company’s plight.
“We believe fundamental changes to its business structure are necessary,” said Credit Suisse’s Koya Tabata, according to Bloomberg. “Compared to its peers both at home and overseas, Sony has been slow to react to the current crisis.”
Credit Suisse cut its rating from neutral to underperform, and Tabata increased his losses estimate for the company from JPY 22.6 billion (USD 251 million) to JPY 150 billion (USD 1.66 billion), also cutting his sales forecast from JPY 8.9 trillion (USD 98.7 billion) to JPY 8.1 trillion (USD 89.8 billion).
Meanwhile Deutsche Bank changed its rating from buy to hold, and cut its stock price estimate by 49 per cent to JPY 2050 (USD 22.70) on concerns over operating costs.
December 16th, 2008
kev… what is your point?? I made that comment based on the games that are most popular on those systems… now were you going to present an opposing fact… or tell me about how the X on the xbox is because the makers were into X rated films…
so try to rack your brains and make a point… what part of that sentence showed fanboyism?? what really pisses me off… is that people like you specially CAD are going to somehow affect another human being… dear god… the horror…
SW… that day… we will all hold hands and sing the mario theme song…
harry… come meet me in Home… I am getting very good at doing the running man… still dont know how to crouch… its a piece of shit though…
December 16th, 2008
ohh CAD… thanks for gathering all that data… Im sure it was very hard for you to google “Sony stick price” and then copy paste…
you have scientifically proven that you are a moron… cus I dont care how much those stocks cost… if its 1 cent… Id buy it… otherwise… dont care
December 16th, 2008
Also Dave if Sony is even able to cut it’s price how much more of a loss will that create. There Longjevity plan is all they have to recoup their over hyped and over expensive ordeal just so their real fans can paly a game which is all that we want to do at the end of the day. All the bells and whistels were just stupid. They should have put the bluray in a Bluray player instead of making a trojan horse out of the PS3. Why is the cell really needed. So you can fold. They could have thrown this in all their laptop as a feature that no other computers would have. and accomplish their folding intititive through their computer. The bottom line is price. Pricing a console way above what any console should be sold for was just stupid. And Dave your DVD argument is just lame. Any 360 with HDMI is capable of 1080P upconversion which is near bluray quality. It does not change the movie experience. Bluray is a lazy slouch when it comes to getting anything off the disk and it’s more expensive by far. Multiple disk don’t change the games experience either.
December 16th, 2008
DWH
I guess your too stupid to read and get fact.
December 16th, 2008
Shipping multiple DVD’s is more expensive than shipping one Blu-Ray.
And M$ refuse to pick up the tab for extra disks; lumbering the publisher with the cost.
December 16th, 2008
again CAD… I dont care bout the facts… whether Forza has 8 terabyte sim data or Sony’s Stock is worth bajiillions… Im gonna play GT 5… Im gonna buy God of war 3… and Im gonna buy gears 2… cus I like playing the games… which is the reason why I put money into buying a fucking box with wires inside…
December 16th, 2008
and download the latest episode of “podtoid” from destructoid… its nice to see some people appreciate the ps3 is these dark times… god bless us everyone… except for the 360 owners… they are americans and they suckz….
lolololololololololololololololololol
December 16th, 2008
“…Forza has 8 terabyte sim data…”
Haha, they’d need 888 DVD’s
December 16th, 2008
I don’t see how the stock of a company relates to the quality of a machine…
But sure. Next, we should average the shoe size of the employees of MS and Sony’s gaming divisions! Larger average wins!!
December 16th, 2008
you know what they say about shoe sizes…
December 16th, 2008
…large socks
December 16th, 2008
Anyway, nah, the 360 isn’t gunna die. List is unashamedly ripped from another website, but it will keep its core gamers entertained with:
Halo Wars
Halo 3: ODST
Halo Chronicles
Peter Jackson’s Halo
Halo MMO (scrapped)
Paper Halo
Halo’s Mansion
Halo Kart
Halo bros. brawl
Halo Sunshine
Halo Music
Halo Strikers
Halo Galaxy
Metal Gear Halo
December 16th, 2008
“The Xbox 360 is quite a considerable way ahead of the PS3 in terms of sales. I can’t spin those figures, they’re just fact. But that seven million-unit lead is mainly down to the year head start the Microsoft console enjoyed over its Sony rival.”
…..and not forgetting the additional huge boost in sales the XBox 360 just had by way of recent deep price-cuts.
Come on, a debate is great and all but don’t leave out the important details.
Sony gave up this X-mas just as Microsoft gave their sales a real kick.
…..and the PS3 is not in 2nd place.
It’s well and truly in 3rd.
I guess the PS3 fanboys have given up including the Wii in any of this as it’s so far out in front.
December 16th, 2008
YES!!! I knew halo bros brawl was coming out…
December 16th, 2008
Wii sold 2 million units this month (or last month) how can ANYoNE compete with that…
December 16th, 2008
I’ll buy a 360 for Metal Gear Halo!
December 16th, 2008
‘… given up including the Wii in any of this as it’s so far out in front.’
Isn’t that exactly what MS did when it was clear they were not battling with the wii anymore?
December 17th, 2008
SW,
I can relate, as the only one off the PS3 list I am interested in is God of War III; I am not a big racing fan so GT5 is not a factor, and there are more than enough quality multiplatform releases to keep either owner busy (RE5, FFXIII, etc.).
There are a few I haven’t heard of, but I probably won’t have time to check them out unless they are unusually phenomenal.
203 PS3 releases scheduled for next year,
232 360 releases scheduled for next year.
The amount of titles and the narrow margin (360 will only have 13% more releases next year than PS3) of difference means each console owner will be happy.
lock_down,
You are right, Bungie could do a better job on all of those titles than the original studios. Funny only one of them is worth the investment off of the PS3 though.
December 17th, 2008
“Bungie could do a better job on all of those titles than the original studios.”
Yeah, you keep believing that…
December 17th, 2008
SW
I’d give it a little while yet, after the most recent price cuts taking the entry-level XBox below the price of the Wii I expect to see the gap narrow (particularly as they go for some of that Wii market with games better aimed at the family/casula gamers.
CarlB
You’re dreaming if you think you know the release schedule for XBox tom make that sort of comparison.
You do have a better idea of the PS3 schedule (cos Sony have to dangle just about everything they have coming to maintain some kind of interest) but you don’t know all of what XBox has coming.
Microsoft are in such a strong position now that they can afford to tease and surprise.
It’s actually a measure of how badly things are going for the PS3.
Shame, eh?
December 17th, 2008
lock-down, you forgot to mention Little Big Halo and God of Halo
December 17th, 2008
2009 is looking pretty good for Sony. They have a massive amount of first party titles lined up through out the year. Then there will be the all important price cut. As Dave pointed out, M$ will not be able to cut the price of the 360 anymore for a very long time. The PS3 has the advantage of cutting its price a few more times over the next few years. With each price cut, it will help to spike sales.
SW – Where can I get the Resident Evil 5 demo? From what I’ve been reading, it looks like I can burn the demo to a DVD and then play it from the 360. I just can’t find the file I need to burn.
December 17th, 2008
I disagree with the notion that M$ won’t be able to cut the price for a long time.
Think about it, M$ have about 45% of *guaranteed* income from the sales of Windows & Microsoft Office every single year.
That’s nearly $30billion of guaranteed income every year; and growing.
Sony don’t have any product (like most companies I guess) that is guaranteed to bring in income like that every year.
M$ can afford to take the hit because they know it won’t affect their core sales of Windows & Office.
At one time, the Playstation accounted for 40% of all Sony’s revenue. Presumably that’s where Sony would like to be now.
But if they cut the price it will take longer to get there; if ever; but if they don’t they run the risk of the PS3 sinking further into oblivion than it is now.
Tough choices for Sony.
December 17th, 2008
lock_down,
I said could, not would.
And remember, it is your list not mine.
Happyhockum,
I do not dream and I know nothing.
I am just going off of IGN, which is usually updated bi-weekly to monthly:
http://xbox360.ign.com/index/release.html
http://ps3.ign.com/index/release.html
Microsoft is in a strong position, Nintendo is in a stronger one.
I like my 360 and will not buy a PS3 anytime soon, but I think one of the main reasons PS3 is in last (not necessarily a bad position at 16 million + consoles sold) is not only because it came out a year later and is higher priced, but also because PS2 games are still coming out, PS2’s are still being sold well, and there is such a huge game library available for it for half the price of present gen games, and they still offer top quality gameplay. That library simply dwarfs all the other consoles libraries combined.
Actually, instead of it being a shame, I think it puts Sony in a very good position to transition fully to PS3 next year or shortly after; if the redesign, price cut, backwards compatibility, trophies, rankings, and PSN are streamlined and standardized well next year.
Sony seems to have lost a lot of the cockiness they had going into this generation, and have hopefully repaired the bridges they burned initially. Besides, somebody has to be in third, and with casual games going mainstream this gen there is room enough for three home consoles on the market, even in a recession.
December 17th, 2008
Rimmer, the list could be endless
Grand Theft Halo
Pro Evolution Halo
Resistance: Fall Of Halo (my fave)
December 17th, 2008
lock_down,
You are talking about financial levels which have their ups and downs over several years, not just the last 3. It is great that Microsoft is successful and Nintendo is even more successful, but look at where these two were just in the last generation, and you will understand how a company can bounce back from “failure”.
16 million+ consoles sold is not “oblivion,” especially when a full console transition has yet to take place from a console that has sold 140 million+.
December 17th, 2008
lock_down, the list could be endless:
Metal Gear Wars
Metal Gear Effect
Metal Gear Chronicles
Peter Jackson’s Metal Gear
Metal Gear MMO (scrapped)
Metal Gear Mansion
Metal Gear Kart
Metal Gear bros. brawl
Metal Gear Sunshine
Metal Gear Music
Metal Gear Strikers
Metal Gear Galaxy
Metal Halo Gear
Little Big Metal Gear
Metal Gear of War
Grand Theft Metal Gear
Pro Evolution Metal Gear
Resistance: Fall of Metal Gear (my fave)
December 17th, 2008
First of all the cheapest PS3 is in league with the Elite console. So where do you get this MS has no room to make a price cut. That makes no sence.
December 17th, 2008
CarlB
I know what you’re saying about bouncing back from failure; and I’m more than pretty sure that Sony will take the planning/development and launch of the PS3 into consideration when coming up with the PS4.
But I think it is different in Sony’s case; especially in a battle against MS. MS has the money to buy exclusives and sell consoles at a lose, and take a financial hit. Not that I’m saying that they enjoy losing money, but it isn’t as “serious” as it is for Sony; especially in this economic climate.
I agree that a full console transition has yet to take place, but I think — as much as I hate saying it — that MS has made a good brand of the name “Xbox” and is beginning (albeit slowly) to dislodge the name “PlayStation” as being synonymous with gaming.
And with the world moving toward online computing and online gaming/digital downloads etc, MS, as a software company, has the ability to adapt quicker than Sony.
Hey, I want Sony and the PS3 to wipe the smug smiles of Xbots’ faces. But the more time goes on, the more I get nervous that they won’t…
Nintendo. They’re tricky to second guess. I doubt they can get away with playing the “casual” card next gen. But then Mario/Pokemon games are so popular –and cheap(er) to develop — I guess that they don’t need to worry so much.
December 17th, 2008
Ouch.
Grand Theft Metal Gear. That would be fucking awesome!
December 17th, 2008
Also the 360 currently does not sell at a loss. The PS3 still sells at a loss. By how much who knows. But back in March it was a great figure that balloned the loss to 4 Billion. Sony is in no position to cut the price anymore. That is why there is a 10 Year plus life cycle on it and the PS2 is still alive to help pay for some of the PS3 Cost. You guys are dreamers keep dreaming.
December 17th, 2008
@ Barnabe Jones
You’ll have to try to google it and find the file. Failing that, you could just search the pirate bay
You just need to burn the file with the correct directory structure onto a DVD.
It pisses me off that they are being so restrictive over it. Its a jap demo, but plays with english sound, english text, even the title screen says ‘resident evil’… Tis retarded.
December 17th, 2008
I love how the Xbox fanboys think a 10 year lifecycle is a bad thing. Also the PS2 is still alive because it is still selling. Can’t say as much for the Xbox. If you are making money on a product, which the PS2 is, why would you discontinue it?
December 17th, 2008
lock_down,
Actually, I think a Metal Gear or Halo RPG would be pretty awesome… if not that MG/H of War (knife/energy blades fused to the arms, mixed in with fantasy elements from another dimension)… or MG/H May Cry… MG/H Fantasy, MG/H Civilization, Command & Conquer… you are right, endless.
December 17th, 2008
Wylie77,
well said.
CAD,
snap out of those dreams you were talking about, 140+ million in sales with over 56% of the top rated console exclusives on the market is much more than “still alive”.
A ten year life cycle is a great thing if you value gameplay over graphics and don’t care to spend more cash.
December 17th, 2008
lololololololololololol
you try to insult Metal Gear by pairing it with halo… while you look like an retard…
Im so glad kojima didnt flood the market with metal gear games… except for Ac!d… I dont want a turn based weird ass MGS games…
December 17th, 2008
DWH,
You are talking to lock_down right?
He did do the original pairing.
BTW, when you say “an retard” is just reads like something a retard would say.
I was not insulting Metal Gear, it has a strong enough roster of characters and history that it is not so easily insulted, doesn’t it?
Actually, it would not be flooding if done over an appropriate period of time with subtlety. I think Square Enix is doing quite a good job experimenting with different formula’s and mixes on the Final Fantasy series, though it may not be everybody’s cup of tea and may not always be perfect.
December 17th, 2008
CAD, if you take the 360 solely as hardware from earlier this year, then yes, they are making a profit.
But the whole Xbox project since it started in 2001 has lost MS billions.
December 17th, 2008
Oh and CarlB I should point out that I ripped the original pairing from another website, so don’t bring me into this….
December 17th, 2008
aaand, “is just reads” reads like something a retard would say also
Oh well, at least we haven’t gone “full retard” yet.
December 17th, 2008
ld, “You started it!”
December 17th, 2008
I know…I was trying to annoy kev with the one dimension-ness of the 360
December 17th, 2008
Ok since you guys don’t want to own up to the fact that the PS2 is still alive to counter the loss of the PS3 tell my why PS1 was over when PS2 came out. Every console maker discontinues it’s previous console so that people move over to the new console. Why have overhead on 2 systems when you can have overhead on 1 system. It’s so funny that PS3 boyz will say Original Xbox is not around but neither it the Gamecube. Keep justifying your Trojan Horse.
December 17th, 2008
SW – Thanks! I thought I checked pirate bay, but I’ll double check tonight. I can not wait to finally get to play it.
CAD - Either way Sony wins. Do you honestly think the 720/Phoenix will be able to get by with DVD9 next generation? What format do you think they will end up using? I think I know the answer…
December 17th, 2008
MS lost 5 Billion on the Original Xbox in the total lifesapn. PS3 racked up 4 Billion in losses by March 08 in over a 1 Year cycle and counting. Sure they my be still working off the cost of the original Xbox but who cares because they don’t loose money anymore on consoles sold. I’m not sure but didn’t they say they make a profit now. MS throws money all the time at upgrading the service, getting exclusive content, giving out free games, Getting exclusive games, having exclusive time on certain games. They keep snubing the PS3 and Sony can’t do what MS does. It’s a great time over here. If I paid for LIVE and received nothing in return then sure the Fee would be a problem. But PS3 Boyz don’t understand quality service. You guys think a working console is all you need. Yet with every update on the PS3 it’s TRYING to becoming a 360. Yet you praise the company that forgot about you before they realized they were making a game console and now all you do is try to justify your purchase of a console that’s in last place.
December 17th, 2008
To be honest I wish they would use something other then bluray but I think Disk are over next time around. You’ll go to the store to buy a download code or buy it directly on the Marketpalce in the console. Sony deserves no respect. I spit on Bluray.
December 17th, 2008
OH NO… hoisted by my own petard… DAMN YOU SPELLCHECK!!!
I hate you… *snif* I hope you burn in hell *sniff*
December 17th, 2008
I think so too CAD.
It’s evolution.
Whereas 10 years ago the thought of downloading (if people even knew what downloading was lol) a 700mb game was frightening, now everybody is doing it.
Whereas about 6-8 years ago the thought of downloading a 4.5gb game was frightening now it’s commonplace.
It’ll be the same in the future. The thought of waiting to download a 30gb+ now is off putting, but in 5-10 years networks will be upgraded and it’ll be a breeze.
But that won’t be for some time yet. I think MS has a bit off a headache; whether to gamble on download only or not; it’s clear they’ll never use Blu-Ray.
So it’s all the more bizarre that the Windows guys are working to make Blu-ray work better in Windows, and yet the Xbox guys are saying “nope” we ain’t using Blu-Ray.
December 17th, 2008
lol “off” now I’m the retard
December 17th, 2008
dwh, methinks it might be thy holy grammar check thou speakest of…
hell hath a special place for those who doth profane their own blessed guardian machinations
December 17th, 2008
CAD - I don’t think the world will be ready for digital distribution by next generation, maybe the generation after that. You and I might have decent internet connections, but there is a large portion of people who still don’t. Also most people freak out at waiting 5 minutes to download patches, do you think they will be happy with waiting hours for a game?
I think you might have to end up cleaning the spit off of that Blu-ray disc. Maybe the spit will help with the scratching issue M$ seems to have with its current console.
December 17th, 2008
Windows still comes in PC’s that can utilize Blu-ray as an option, so it makes sense.
Some kind of flash disk format makes sense as a back up to downloads in the future (it should continue to go down in price and increase in data storage and transfer speed as it has in the past), and if game companies are smart at this time, they may even want to partner with phone companies as Amazon did with their Kindle, instead of just relying on wired connections. No doubt wireless broadband will advance in speed as well as wired:
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=8973170&publicUserId=5540369
CAD,
PS1 and 2 have both set a precedent for overlapping consoles and sales, so the argument about other console companies dropping their previous failing consoles is moot.
December 17th, 2008
Barnabe,
Background downloads, increased speeds, increased compression capability, decreased prices, nanotechnology, manufacturing advances, advertising/contract deals, wireless/wired infrastructure advances, partnerships, etc. already pave the way for that future. The world is a lofty goal, but most of the gaming population is not. If it can be done with cell phones it can be done with home consoles down the road.
Blu-ray is a gamble that still hasn’t paid off, but it does have greater potential than DVD. All that’s left is to hope flash memory does not surpass it shortly.
I did scratch one disc when I moved my 360 from the horizontal to upright position with the disc in it on launch day (CoD2), but I haven’t had a problem with scratching since.
CAD,
Sony deserves respect for bringing optical disc capabilities to home consoles first, PS1, PS2, and keeping competition thriving with PS3.
If a console has 125+ above average games already worth playing and 100+ similar games coming out the next year then the purchase is already justified.
December 17th, 2008
Cad,
Sony did not stop production on the PS1 when the PS2 came out. Get your facts straight, you must of been thinking of the Xbox and 360!
“As of July 20, 2008, the PlayStation has sold 102 million units.[5] Sony ceased production of the PlayStation on March 23, 2006, over 11 years since it was first produced.”
I guess the 10 year plan didn’t work very well for the PS1. And as the PS2 keeps selling, that 10 year plan isn’t going so well either huh. I just don’t know what Sony is thinking having a 10 yr plan for the PS3. They must be crazy stupid! (sarcasm) in case you missed it.
I understand you didn’t want everything that came in the PS3, that’s why you bought a 360. But some of us wanted all the bells and whistles and are quite happy with our purchase. You won’t change our minds. And while a working console isn’t everything you need it is a good start, maybe MS should have started with a working console!
December 17th, 2008
Wylie77,
I’ve owned my 360 since launch with only one problem just before hitting the 3 year mark, MS fixed it and gave me 2mo of Gold Live for the two week inconvenience.
MS did start with a working console that had an unforeseen design flaw about 30%, which they have paid dearly for since and have improved upon.
One major annoyance I have with PS3 is them taking out backwards compatibility. Hopefully they will put this back in when they finally phase out the PS2.
The only other is the trophies and ranking system, which they should fix next year.
December 17th, 2008
The whole digital download only scenario is viable; but only for normal-to-hardcore gamers who are aware of downloads; it takes no account of the lucrative casual market.
I bet many Wii owners have no time for digital downloads or may not even understand them. You see plenty of people using Wii’s (like my uncle for example…) who are pretty clueless to technology and have no clue about downloading etc.
So some kind of optical drive would be needed to tap into that lucrative market. And by that time Blu-ray will, finally, be cheap to produce, so Sony would be able to add it in the PS4 regardless; and without heavy cost. So Sony can cater to casual, and hardcore gamer. In the future with DVD9, MS won’t be able to do both.
I think the next gen will be a game of chicken to see who blinks first.
And I think it will have to be MS. Face it Xbots, not having Blu-Ray *does* have an impact. GTA founder Sam Houser has said so himself. And shipping multiple DVD’s is more expensive than shipping one Blu-ray. And who wants to swap discs for a game like GTA?
If MS refuses to use Blu-Ray, then it will surely have to go download only for big games (and face it Xbots, games will get bigger) and then Sony can sit back and see how that works out.
But let’s not forget that hosting, providing, managing and maintaining bandwidth for terabytes and terabytes (which a download only online store would host) of data is expensive.
December 17th, 2008
Carl B: that’s actually my name… but with a K, and my last name doesn’t begin with B… At any rate, I do agree that digital distribution stands a good chance of taking over one day. I just think it is probably more than 5 (or so) years away. The video game industry is world wide. You have to take that into account. The trends now are casual, more accessible games/hardware. I’m not sure any of the big three would risk alienating any section of the world due to a not easily accessible format.
You also made a pretty interesting point about flash memory. I never really thought of it before, but I guess it could be possible. We could end up going back to some sort of cartridge again. Like the good old NES days.
December 17th, 2008
watchu talkon bout Carl B… you aint fizzle to the drizzle bay bee… cmon man… just be real fool… yo homie…
I would pay more for a game with a box and a little manual… If Im paying good money to buy an original… they should get down on their fucking knees and give me something I can hold and pet and polish and put on my mantle to make my poor cousins jealous…
hell yeah…
for me.. digital distribution only for movies Im renting… like netflix… for games… I want a fucking box…
December 17th, 2008
lock_down,
Currently:
MicroSD 8gb is about $15
SD 16gb is about $25
Project these numbers into the future and you will see an optical disc is not necessary.
If you still want to optical, there is a cheaper alternative called the flying lens that would make Blu-ray obsolete by the next generation:
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/new_flying_lens_could_revolutionize_optical_drives_render_bluray_obsolete
Blu-ray size network download service has already started in Japan:
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20081211/162698/
A broadband wireless download service similar to what the Kindle (admittedly much smaller file sizes at this time) has now with would alleviate the casual issue.
December 17th, 2008
wassup willis, I mean dwh,
you could purchase the box for a few cents, print the manual for a few more, then burn the game to a card and even put a little sticker on it to make you feel better.
Either that, or they would have the box option like PC does now in addition to the download. I am still thinking losing the optical drive for flash would be more economical, so the box would contain a card like the DS, instead of a disc.
Similar to files now sold over Amazon or Live, if you ever lost the file or it got damaged, you could always download it again for free.
December 17th, 2008
Barnabe Jones
That was funny. But really I think it will be. They are already putting full Original Xbox titles for download and all the arcade titles as well as the XNA titlesq. Hours to download a game I don’t know about that. I have a good connection so it does not bother me. But with more people getting online the tide will change. All they have to do is make sure there is a decent Hard Drive right from the start. And hoepfully Compression will get better too.
December 17th, 2008
yeah… thats another problem… I dont think me and other people are clear enough on whether we truly “own” the stuff we download… can I download it as much as I want?? or do i have to go through customer service every time??? what if I swap my 80gb hdd for a 500gb one?? how do I move my files over??? what happens to my “premium themes” and downloaded DLCs???
I dont know… which is why I only bought Super street fighter 2 turbo 360…
but if they had Ico and God of war on the psn and it worked with ANY ps3.. I would buy that shit up before you could say fanboy…
December 17th, 2008
CAD
“MS lost 5 Billion on the Original Xbox in the total lifespan. PS3 racked up 4 Billion in losses by March 08 in over a 1 Year cycle and counting.”
Yeah true but the part you’re missing is that Blu-ray R&D is a separate and hugely expensive part of the account.
It’s been costing Sony alone $ billions for years.
The difference is that Microsoft make what they lost on the XBox mk1 in one single quarter.
Sony (in a good year) measure their profits in hundred millions of $.
Microsoft measure their profits in tens of billions of $.
The losses from Blu-ray alone would have been a disaster but coupled with PS3’s huge costs it really is no wonder why people talk about ‘Sony betting the farm’.
The result of that bet is far from known just yet.
Personally I think they made a huge mistake with Blu-ray, they ought to have agreed with the DVD Forum and we could all have had high def on disc a couple of years ago.
Now it’s too late.
Before Blu-ray can grow fast enough we’re likely to see alternatives eat away at whatever market Blu-ray might have had.
(and that was before the global economy bombed)
December 17th, 2008
Lock down
You keep Saying Multple disk cost more then Bluray. How is that possible when A blank disk cost about $0.30. Come on dude your argument makes not sense.
December 17th, 2008
At the start of 2008 Sony had got production costs to under $400 (Google it), and they sell at $400; and they have no doubt got cheaper to make so they have production costs under control.
It’s just a waiting game now. In 2-3 years we could be here saying that the PS3 was the greatest tech disaster of the century; but there is also a case to say it was one the most inspired decisions ever made.
Also remember than it ain’t just Sony that has a stake in Blu-Ray. Movie studios want it to succeed; so do the tech companies signed onto the BDA.
And if movie studios deem that Blu-Ray is the way to watch a film; then they can pull all content from digital stores and stop producing DVD’s. Yeah, it’s extreme, and maybe unlikely; but the point is that Blu-Ray is more in control of its own destiny than a lot of people seem to think.
CAD
Maybe, but what about the extra packaging space/disc printing/disc pressing. It adds up.
December 17th, 2008
Wylie 77
The reason I bought a 360 over a PS3 is because I never had intention of buying a PS3 I did not hate it till later, but my hate was mostly towards Sony for other reasons and the Playstation is under their banner so I hate on it too. I dropped out of gamming for a while. The last system I had before the Original Xbox was the Sega Genisis but I did like Nintendo and owned that too as well as Atari. When I came back I was trying to make up my mind between PS2 and Xbox. I choose Xbox because even though PS2 had a huge library the honest truth is most games for the ps2 were crap and it had a few good ones. Aslo I noticed that the 360 just had better graphics and that drew me in even on multipaltforms so that drew me in. After I got it I started to realize more benefits like the Hard Drive. I saw all my Playstation Buddies messing with Memory cards and I was glad to have my Hard drive. Then when I got online I was even more sold. The only problem was that Sony had a lock on game Titles and we would sometimes get them months later but I was happy with what was there and Halo was amazing. Also I noticed that there were more good games on the Xbox then bad. The ratio was much better then the crap you had to sift through on the PS2. Then when 360 came it was a no brainer for me and here I am today. Happy go lucky and the 360 just up the anti compared to what the original xbox offered. Now when Sony came out I expected better but when that was not the case it made me feel better about my decision to stick with Microsoft and they don’t dissapoint.
December 17th, 2008
CAD you dumbfound me.
‘…truth is most games for the ps2 were crap…’
You all harp on about how metacritic shows the 360 has more AAA titles than the ps3 (which i don’t argue with because frankly i don’t care) then you make a dumb post spouting off about how the ps2 sucked for games.
The 360 has 18 games rated 90 and above on metacritic, the original xbox, 32. The PS2 63.
So what is it? Are we going to use metacritic to compare this generations games but fuck, nah lets jsut forget the ps2/xbox ones!
I prefered you before phranco fucked your mother, because at least then you made coherant posts instead of the rampant fanboy bullshit you push out of your ass onto blorge.
@Barnabe - Get resi 5 yet?
Ill be picking that sucker up when it comes out 
Not sure whether ill go 360 or ps3. Depends on the control scheme and i’m not loving the 360 controller with it atm.
December 17th, 2008
oh come on sw!!! He made no sense long before I fucked his mom!
December 17th, 2008
CAD… if youre so in love with the 360… if you love it so much more than the ps3… why arent you playing it instead of trolling around here??
and you keep missing the point… the xbox and the ps2 are for completely different demographic… ps2… for single player… xbox for multiplayer… very simple analogy… so if you like multiplayer so much… play online and stop trying to convince SW that you are cool…
for once Id like to have a meaningful conversation about games… and not about the consoles…
December 17th, 2008
not cool phranc… I thought you were fucking SWs dad… you two timing piece of shit…
December 17th, 2008
he kept requested lube and I like it dry and dirty.
December 17th, 2008
requesTING…
haha phranc you made a boobie… I mean a boo boo… cant even get a silly joke right…
December 17th, 2008
Couple of points:
1) where did this ridiculous idea that Microsoft cannot cut the XBox price further come from?
I know a MS guy said there would not be any price-cuts for some time straight after the last ones, but, what else do you expect them to say straight after cutting the price?
It’s hardly proof of anything.
The bottom line is MS is so enormously profitable that they can afford to keep cutting prices any and every time they think it’s necessary to keep the edge.
That’s a damned strong position to be in - and in stark contrast to the position Sony is in.
2) PS3 production costs (assuming the tales of them approaching meeting the production costs are true) are not in actual profit.
Meeting the production cost sure as hell isn’t anything close to repaying their enormous PS3 R&D costs either.
Nor does it have anything to do with filling the huge hole Blu-ray R&D (which is quite seperate) has cost them in the last 5 - 7yrs.
Sony has been post vast losses for years because of Blu-ray.
3) Movie studios do not care about formats; they only want the most profitable means of movie distribution.
Right now that absolutely is not Blu-ray.
Sales are too tiny & it is growing far too slowly and is clearly limited heavily by HD TV adoption.
HD TV services coupled with a DVR for VOD services meanwhile are a ‘no-brainer’ when new HD TVs are sold.
Not a Blu-ray player and the occasional expensive Blu-ray disc.
…..and unfortunately for the PS3/Blu-ray devotees the one thing that everyone at shows and such like says gets the movie studio guys excited is digital downloading.
Not Blu-ray.
No transportation, no packaging, the consumer pays most of the overhead.
They are very excited about it.
Everyone but everyone knows it’s merely a matter of when, not if.
Unfortunately Blu-ray can do no more than be a short-term minority share in a market already broken up so much that it has no chance of being ‘the next DVD’.
Even the coming recession gives Blu-ray a double kicking.
First the recession slows an already slow adoption further and secondly the Govs all across the western world are embarking on major public capital spending projects to try to offset the worst of the coming recession - and long-term projects that benefit the nation (like internet infrastructure improvements) are top of everyone’s list.
December 17th, 2008
SW,
Actually, as I have posted before several times, the PS2 makes up 56% of the total top rated games amongst all the present home consoles, with 320 titles being rated at over 80% on MetaCritic.
And you have a point about MetaCritic, as I have been having fun playing Alien Syndrome on PSP for the past couple of weeks, which is only rated at 51 on MetaCritic; but the site seems to be the best tool we have available to counter with when somebody uses that “best exclusive games, no good games!!!” argument.
December 18th, 2008
Licences/royalties are potentially more lucrative on Blu-Ray than on DVD. Blu-Ray needs to become more mainstream though for this to happen. Something which the BDA undoubtedly want to push.
The PS3 is not in profit, but at least Sony has got production costs under control and is not hemorrhaging money like it did in the first two years.
I still think this is a waiting game. Blu-Ray has heavyweight backers; it’s not just Sony that wants it to succeed.
December 18th, 2008
DVD sales were taking a hit before the recession due to downloads, memory advances, and other technology besides Blu-Ray:
“The DVD drop isn’t unexpected. Some analysts at the end of last year were forecasting a 2007 decline due to saturation, advances in technology like video-on-demand, Internet downloading and growing competition from entertainment like video games.”
http://www.nypost.com/seven/12042007/business/dvd_isaster_sales_806649.htm
“Sales of Blu-ray high-definition discs have partially offset the decline in DVD sales, but they are not growing as fast as DVD is declining, thereby causing a conundrum. Many consumers simply don’t see the need to “upgrade” to Blu-ray. Standard DVD is good enough for many.”
http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/11/25/dvd-sales-falling/
“not everyone sees the need for a disc-based player anymore. The 360 has a well-regarded content download service that delivers HD movies right to the console, for instance, and Microsoft has been talking up to the direct download model for content distribution”
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080505-blu-ray-hits-bumps-in-the-road-to-hd-market-dominance.html
Blu-Ray may last another generation as a game format for Sony, but other alternatives are already available this generation that will only continue to advance to surpass Blu-Ray capabilities. ♠
December 18th, 2008
SW
I made that decision about the PS2 library when I was completely unbias. I was trying to decide between the two. It’s just something I noticd.
December 18th, 2008
SW
You also forget that there was no Metacritic then and if there was I did not know about it. Plus you missed my point completely. I said the RATIO. I went to friends houses who had one or the other or both checking them out for a few months before I made my decision. Yes PS2 had tons of games way more then the Xbox. It was easier to find more quality games on the Xbox then the PS2. In my own opinion the ratio was like 60% good games to 40% bad on the Xbox vs 40% good games to 60% bad on the PS2. Also when do we just look at the games rated 90 and above.
December 18th, 2008
Ps2 had a lot of shovelware. Thats seems to happen on the console that the most popular. The same is happening on the wii now.
Not really something to look forward to unless you want the latest Barbie game.
Basically the PS3 became last gen’s Xbox. They future proofed it (blu ray,wifi, bluetooth) added a HDD and basically made the better all round machine compared to the competition. Sometimes all that matters is price to people, as what’s being shown now.
December 18th, 2008
Well I did some math with the PS2 and Xbox
Games rated 70 and above on metacritic are:
PS2: 782/1590 games = 33% to 67%
Xbox: 472/856 games = 36% to 64%
So there is an unbias stat. Not my opinion.
As you can see 856 to 1590 is a difference of 734 Games between the two.
Anyone else want to play with these figures. My Math is rusty.
December 18th, 2008
Pranchtoast
You mention my mother any more and I will ask BLORG to remove you. I don’t personally insult you so cut the crap.
December 18th, 2008
CAD,
There was IGN and EGM back then, as well as other resources where you could be your own MetaCritic.
The RATIO:
XBOX:
856 games
339 rated 75 or above.
40%:60% “good” games to “bad”
(I am enjoying one rated at 51 right now).
PS2:
1590 games
535 rated 75 or above.
34%:66%
December 18th, 2008
6% is not a noticeable difference with that many games, but the fact that the XBox had only 54% of titles compared to PS2 may have made it magnify their good titles more.
God of War I & II, FF, and several other releases were hard to ignore for me, though I still enjoyed my XBox.
December 18th, 2008
DWH
Is this article about games or consoles. Your such an idiot.
December 18th, 2008
Carl B
Yeah I know I went to ING and looked at EGM Magazines. In the end I still choose Xbox.
December 18th, 2008
dwh,
I only enjoyed and played single player games on my Xbox. There were plenty.
December 18th, 2008
Picked mine up way before the XBOX came out. Was looking forward to it as I didn’t have a DVD player at the time.
Relax CAD. SW brought up the mom thing. I got his dad back though…..or backside…..
December 18th, 2008
CAD,
Me too, the PS2 came later. There are still more games I want to play on the PS2 than Xbox though, but only if I get bored with the 360 when I get back, which I doubt will happen.
December 18th, 2008
‘I said the RATIO.’
Why do you care about ratio? Unless you happen to buy EVERY game for a machine its kind of useless. For example ::
Console A could have only 30 games, with %50 being AAA. console B could have 500 games with %45 being AAA. Hmm I wonder which one has more AAA games?
And yes maybe metacritic was not around at that time, but you still used some mystical magical source to determine your useless ratio didn’t you now?
December 18th, 2008
CAD… youre a retard if you think you can judge a games quality by ratio and review scores… its not just those… theres several other variable to consider… like personal taste… I dont like turn based RPGs… so even if Final Fantasy gets 200 out of 100 I wouldnt buy it…
my stupid friend likes COD WaW better than COD 4… he likes Mercenaries 2 more than GTA 4… I call him an idiot… but if he likes it… Im glad he plays them and can enjoy them…
the same way I bought socom… even though it got 6/10 from gamespot… I dont care when other people say its got crappy graphics… I think it has great graphics… and is really fun… so fuck off
December 18th, 2008
lol. I liked Mercs 2 better than GTA4 also. It’s just more fun.
December 18th, 2008
Yeah I gotta agree pranc.
GTA had more overall polish. But damn it was fun blowing stuff up in mercs
SR2 was a pretty fun game too. Reminded me of the older GTA games.
December 18th, 2008
FINALLY!!! we can talk about games… after gooing through 100 retard comments… I didnt play mercs 2… but wouldnt the blowing up stuff get boring?? also the reviews said there were major bugs and the AI sucked…
and perks like carpet bombing and nukes arent needed as you can blow everyone up with a normal gun easy…
then again… I do like games with serious story… I loved GTA 4… it kept me hooked…
also I heard in Co op your friends progress isnt saved in his profile… did you guys think it was worth $60?? what about Saints Row 2??
December 18th, 2008
Yeah, talking about people mothers, kids etc is seriously fucked up and should be off limits.
December 19th, 2008
my brother picked up merc2 in circuit city for $30.
The AI isn’t the greatest. It tends to be glitchy here and there. It is not a graphics masterpiece but it certainly is fun.
The story is fairly one dimensional.
I recommend giving it a rent. You’ll put in decent hours before you start seeing serious firepower though.
December 19th, 2008
Nothing like fuel-air RPG’s!
Best weapon in a game. EVER
December 19th, 2008
wow… you guys are freaks… Im so glad youre on America’s side… WE GOAN WIN THIS WAR GAINST VIET…. VENEZUELA!!!
December 19th, 2008
America Fuck yeah!
December 21st, 2008
Team America: World Police video game? Anybody interested?