Blame Microsoft for Final Fantasy XIII delay on PS3

January 15, 2009

Blame Microsoft for Final Fantasy XIII delay on PS3There is word trickling out of a business meeting today by Square Enix, that Final Fantasy XIII will not be hitting our shores till mid 2010. This is definitely unacceptable coming from a company known for its stellar RPG franchise. Square Enix is to blame for this mishap, but the blame also falls squarely on Microsoft.

Square Enix has mentioned in the past that the PS3 version was practically finished and going through the final touch-ups for release in Japan this year. So, why is it that the US and Europe will be getting the game one year later? Square Enix execs have made it crystal clear that the game will not hit our shores until the porting/development has finished for the Xbox 360.

In a recent meeting, Square Enix revealed that the earliest US and Europe would see Final Fantasy XIII would be in April of 2010. Originally, the execs at Square Enix hinted that the game would arrive in 2009 for the US territory. However, this all changed after last E3, where the studio heads revealed that a deal has been struck just before the conference with Microsoft, for a simultaneous release on the PS3 and Xbox 360.  

When I first heard that there was going to be a delay due to the decision to port over Final Fantasy XIII to the Xbox 360, I was okay with getting a late 2009 release in time for the holidays. However, now Square Enix is telling me I won’t be getting my grubby hands on it till mid 2010 (at the earliest), which is pretty disappointing.

I really don’t care where I play Final Fantasy XIII. It could be on my Xbox 360 or PS3 as long as they are of equal quality. However, what really bothers me is that I have to wait longer because Microsoft got too greedy.

Why couldn’t the finished version just get released first and tack on some extras onto the later version? The reason is because that wasn’t part of the deal when Microsoft dropped millions into Square Enix’s lap.

Square Enix is equally to blame for this blatant disregard for the fan’s patience considering that we have been waiting for this game since 2006. I love my Xbox 360 and I have played it to death many times (literally), but I am no tool.

Folks, “it is what it is” and there is no need to sugar coat it, Microsoft messed up. The company put their greed over us, the general consumers and purposely cockblocked the release of Final Fantasy XIII.  Sigh. My rant is over, time to get back to playing Gears of War 2 Horde mode.

78 Responses to “Blame Microsoft for Final Fantasy XIII delay on PS3”

  1. darkwhitehair:

    *facepalm*… not again… wait… riddle me this Mike… why would a PS3 fanboy like you play on the 360??

    anyways… Ill let the JRPG “gamers” battle this out…

  2. kevo:

    Fucking M$ When the fuck haven’t they been greedy to its consumers…well im glad i got a ps3!! but do i know right xbot family?

  3. kevo:

    Fucking M$ When the fuck haven’t they been greedy to its consumers…well im glad i got a ps3!! but what do i know right xbot family?

  4. harry sachz:

    @kevo,

    You’re glad you got a PS3 because you have to wait just as long as 360 owners to get the game? That makes sense.

    Anyway, they didn’t mess up. They signed a deal with Square for a simultaneous release, something that Square agreed to. If anyone here is at fault, Square is for signing on the dotted line. All Microsoft is guilty of is looking after it’s customers by acquiring this game for it’s system.

  5. Bourne:

    LOL only Harry could acquit Microsoft of wrong-doing in this charade. So what you’re saying is that Microsoft have done nothing wrong? That even when Square Enix had already completed the game, Microsofts offer is completely innocent and has nothing to do with the delay? Well obviously.

  6. CarlB:

    Guys, please read the original “source” link in the article before moving on.

    ” Square Enix also plans to launch the next version of “Final Fantasy” in 2009 in Japan, further strengthening its product lineup.
    Overseas launches of the latest “Final Fantasy” game will come in the business year from April 2010 or later, Wada said.
    Square Enix will offer the latest version, “Final Fantasy XIII”, for both Sony Corp’s PlayStation 3 and Microsoft Corp’s Xbox 360 in North America and Europe, and exclusively for the PS3 in Japan.”

    guardian.co.uk/business/feedarticle/8259189

    So yes, Mike presents the slippery slope from “the execs at Square Enix hinted that the game would arrive in 2009 for the US territory” to “that Final Fantasy XIII will not be hitting our shores till mid 2010… the blame also falls squarely on Microsoft”.

    “Square Enix has mentioned in the past that the PS3 version was practically finished and going through the final touch-ups for release in Japan this year. So, why is it that the US and Europe will be getting the game one year later?”

    The key to this quote is “the PS3 version”, specifically the Japanese PS3 version. Traditionally, porting to Microsoft takes little time in comparison to porting to PS3 (and certainly not over a year). What does take much more time, especially for in depth, lengthy RPG’s, is translation.

    So there you have it. It’s not “greedy Microsoft” twirling the handlebar mustache in the corner (as if Sony was too high minded to do the same if they could), it is translation. The translation process has been over a year in the past for similar games, do not think it will be so different now.

  7. CarlB:

    New Article Title: “Blame Language Barrier for Final Fantasy XIII delay in US and Europe”

  8. CarlB:

    This combined with the many other Square Enix releases scheduled for this year:

    DS
    Dragon Quest V
    Valkyrie Profile
    Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles Echoes of Time
    Kuroshitsuji: Phantom and ghost (hey, they have a not so easy choice between shit suji and black butler)
    Dragon Quest IX

    360
    Star Ocean: TLH

    PS3
    The Last Remnant
    Final Fantasy Versus XIII

    Wii
    Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Echoes of Time
    Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Crystal Bearers

    PSP
    Star Ocean: Second Evolution
    Dissidia Final Fantasy

    Is it just a coincidence that DS is getting the most games this year?

    Microsoft needs a portable gaming solution…

  9. Barnabe Jones:

    I agree with my man kevo on this one… Fuck M$! I was considering picking up a 360 as a second console at one point, but the companies business practices truly disgust me, so… *gives computer the middle finger*

    PS3 guys – as a plus though, we can import the demo in June. In Japan there will be a demo available with the blu-ray release of advent children. Another one of the many advantages of blu-ray is that it is not region locked.

  10. Barnabe Jones:

    Carl I just read through your quote… good points, but I’m still blaming M$ *wink* lol.

    Is Final Fantasy Versus XIII really scheduled for 2009?!?!?! I thought Vs was to be released later… please tell me I’m wrong though…

  11. Wylie77:

    I love to complain about MS when they do something wrong. However, I can’t find blame on the MS side on this one. Square Enix is the one to blame here. They were the true greedy ones who excepted the MS money. They could have said no to MS, still ported it over to the 360, released it later than the PS3 version and made money off from just sales. But, it is easy for me to say, no one is offering me millions of $ for delaying a product.

  12. Mike Ferro:

    @CarlB,

    No Carl the blame is with Microsoft and Square Enix.
    There is no blame with the localization. I was going to talk about localization but did not want to create the kind of semantic confusion you are experiencing.

    After voice audio was introduced into FFX, Square Enix is known for releasing their Final Fantasy games in Japan at the latest mid year and in the US by holiday season.

    Final Fantasy X – Japan June 2001, US December 2001
    Final Fantasy XI – Japan March 2006, US October 2006

    Hence why Square Enix was previously eluding to a mid 2009 Japan, and Holiday 2009 US release for the PS3.

    However, now after the deal with Microsoft the latest intel from Square Enix stockholders meeting indicates at THE EARLIEST (I want to stress this because Square Enix never delivers anything at the earliest), it will be mid 2010.

    So yes localization does take time but historically 6-7 months.

    Key points I want to bring to your attention you seemed to glazed over:

    - Square Enix execs have said they will not start development of Xbox 360 version until PS3 is 100% complete

    - Adding a whole new development/QA cycle pushes the timetable by a great deal

    - It is not a simple “quick” port as you have indicated, because the game was not developed with the Xbox 360 in mind. Think porting Killzone 2 or any PS3 first party title to Xbox 360.

    Multiplatform titles where they use the PS3 as the lead platform (ex. Dead Space) and port over to Xbox 360 were developed with multiplatform in mind. Thus size constraints and target deliverables were already put into the requirements gate. I know a few things when it comes to the SDLC, considering I’m a software engineer *wink* ;)

    However, the really messed up part about this ordeal is that Square Enix was practically finished with the PS3 version, and signed the deal with Microsoft on an Xbox 360 version which was not even in the planning phase of development.
    And of course Microsoft knowing that the PS3 version will be completed sooner then the Xbox 360 version still said screw them, let them wait.

    There is no other way to spin this, the bottom line is Xbox 360 development has pushed back the PS3 version launch date, and it was done INTENTIONALLY.

  13. Barnabe Jones:

    Damn. Mike just handed you guys your asses…

  14. Happyhockum:

    Er, Mike in case you hadn’t noticed, no-one forced Enix into this deal.

    “Microsoft messed up”

    BS.
    You just don’t like the implications of the deal Enix made with Microsoft.

  15. Rimmer:

    still don’t see how MS are to be blamed for any delay. They wanted a product and Square Enix were willing to offer it to them. MS are not the ones deciding the release schedule. Where is the hate for Sony delaying the release of GTA4? And as far as I recall there was no official launch date for FF13, so how can there be a delay? Virtually every major game release has had their release date moved back, who’s to know that Square would have released the game at the end of 2009 anyway. If you want to hate MS, do so for the right reasons, not for something they have no control over.

  16. harry sachz:

    @ Barnabe Jones, if by handing one’s arse you mean posting a ludicrous response to an even more ludicrous article, then yes, you are right.

    I find it funny how short these PS3 boys memories are. Remember GTA IV? It won game of the year for 2008 in case anyone doesn’t. The 360 game was ready for release back in October 2007, however there was a simultaneous release clause signed there, and because the PS3 version was not ready, 360 owners had to wait. Rockstar finally did get the PS3 version out 6 months later, albeit it wasn’t in HD. I don’t recall an article about this in Blorge, funnily enough.

    I was not there when the FF simultaneous release deal was signed, I was busy that day, but I don’t think Microsoft was pointing a gun at the Square guys telling them that they must sign this deal. Nor were they threatening to kill bunnies etc. This deal was done with the consent of Square. Blaming this delay on Microsoft is asinine and reeks of fanboyism, but then again, this is MIKE FERRO we’re talking about here, who doesn’t actually do much to hide his personal opinion re what machine he is rooting for. If anyone should be blamed for this delay, it has to be Square for agreeing to sign up to this.

    I can’t see what the big deal is anyway, you PS3 boys should be used to delays in game release dates and broken promises, right? You’ve been dealing with them since the PS3 was released.

  17. CarlB:

    Not quite.

    @ Mike Ferro,

    I appreciate your opinion and your convictions on this Mike (the source you quoted doesn’t mention any of this conjecture) but it would seem that localization is definitely a factor and is to blame for the majority of the delay.

    The only thing Square Enix itself has ever eluded to is a 2009 release in Japan, not a “mid 2009″ release. Different sites and magazines took it from there, naturally. What Square Enix did announce is that a demo of Final Fantasy XIII would be included in Final Fantasy VII Advent Children Complete (due for release in March 2009 in Japan) on Blu-ray Disc for PlayStation 3, along with new trailers of Final Fantasy Versus XIII and Final Fantasy Agito XIII.

    A demo is not a full game, but it MAY be indicative that the game itself is in it’s final stages, nothing more, unless officially announced otherwise.

    “Key points I want to bring to your attention you seemed to glazed over:”

    - Square Enix execs stated in your source interview that FFXIII would only come out for PS3 in Japan in 2009 (no date, quarter, or mention of “early” “mid” or “late”).
    - I never indicated it was a “quick” port, simply that it wouldn’t take anywhere near a year with Square Enix’s resources and experience with 360 titles, regardless of whether it was a PS3 port.
    -Using the 6-7 months you quote, if the Japanese PS3 version is selling in October 2009 (remember, it is exclusive to PS3 there), April 2010 (not mid 2010 like you said) as quoted from your source interview falls right in line with your localization timeline. If it was ever “mid 2009″ then porting MAY be responsible for a 3 month delay.

    I wasn’t aware you were a software engineer with PS3 and 360 experience at the level of Square Enix RPG titles. So what experience do you have so far in regards to this?

    Please provide the link for where you found:

    “Square Enix execs have said they will not start development of Xbox 360 version until PS3 is 100% complete”

  18. Barnabe Jones:

    Harry – What I am used to as a PS3 fan is M$ taking below the belt shots at me… Hence, why I am a little bit less than sympathetic to wait while the game gets ported down to 20 DVDs.

    -Timed Exclusives – Rock Band2, Bioshock, Bioshock 2, Star Ocean 4, Ace Combat 6, etc, etc, etc

    -Exclusive DLC (aka paying to gimp the PS3 version) – Tomb Raider, Fall Out 3, GTA, etc,

  19. kev:

    carlb- ouch. good points.

  20. CarlB:

    Final Fantasy XIII is currently being developed using Square Enix’s “Crystal Tools” technology with the PC as base platform. Not the PS3.

  21. CarlB:

    “Speaking at a special Square Enix Q&A event at E3, Square Enix exec Shinji Hashimoto detailed the developer’s strategy, taking care to consider not only the game’s multiplatform development, but its localization period as well.”As we have already announced, we will complete the PS3 version in Japan,” explained Hashimoto. “After that, we will start the localization for US and Europe.” Once localization is underway, Square will begin development of the Xbox 360 version, with the aim of releasing it in America (with no meaningful content changes) alongside the localized PlayStation 3 version. “Because of languages and other conditions, it may not release in US and Europe simultaneously,” noted Hashimoto.” (Joystiq.com July 14 2008)

    joystiq.com/2008/07/14/final-fantasy-xiii-xbox-360-development-coming-after-ps3-versio/

  22. CarlB:

    So the question is, which takes longer, a PC port to 360 or localization?

  23. Barnabe Jones:

    As with Final Fantasy XIII, development initiated on the PlayStation 2 but was later shifted to the PlayStation 3 when the development team determined that the PlayStation 2′s hardware would not suffice for the “visual expression” that the team had initially decided upon and that the single DVD format did not have the adequate storage requirements. As such, most of the development was restarted on the PlayStation 3.[17]

  24. Barnabe Jones:

    Also Carl – where did you see the release of Vs being 2009? Don’t mean to be a pest, but I would love to know.

  25. jojo29:

    @CarlB

    Crystal Tools, as stated by Tetsuya Nomura, was created in the switch from the PlayStation 2 to the PlayStation 3 during the development of Final Fantasy XIII and Final Fantasy Versus XIII (the first titles being developed using the engine along with an MMORPG codenamed Rapture[2]) with Nomura commenting that in the PlayStation 3 switch, “the hurdles are greater than they were in the move from the PS1 to the PS2″[3]

    No, development of the White Engine was purely for the PS3. NOW, its being used to develop multi-platform games , but the development was designed ALL around Sony consoles :) G’day

    PS yes MS and S-E are to blame. You see this generation has shown the true side of the games industry: greed. But, im not ignorant, that has always been the case, BUT, companies were not so blatant about this. What does this mean? Well the Square from past, when they made the switch from Nintendo to Sony, used to front to us by telling us, its all about letting our creativity flow(money), and the storage of the CD-ROM (scapegoat) on the PS1 is why we made our choice. At least there was some dignity in that, and we were willing to believe Square stood for quality and creativity.

    But not its more like this: Well, we made a last minute deal with Microsoft, and c’mon yall, they have lotsa money so we gonna go head and make that deal, we dont really care if you have to wait for our game, they giving us the money upfront. All Microsoft see’s is green money. They don’t care about its consumers ( RROD is still rampant, maybe not 33% but its still in the double digits) paying for LIVE ( if you believe its worth the price you are a fool) Marketing is one of MS strengths though ill give you that.

  26. CarlB:

    Barnabe,

    It was still being developed with the PC as base platform. There may well be 2-3 DVD9′s for the 360 version, no biggie for me (or them, considering the cost of BR disc to DVD9)… it’s about as much inconvenience as you having to use your PS2 instead of bc on the PS3 right? I still remember loving to play my 6 CD Baldur’s Gate on PC.

    From the looks of it, as the PC version of it is near completion, 360 owners have to wait on the PS3 version (as it generally takes the longest to port to from PC, let alone develop games in general for).

  27. CarlB:

    Oh yeah, it is TBA 2009 on IGN:

    ps3.ign.com/index/release.html

  28. Barnabe Jones:

    Wow… That’s awesome Carl! Thanks! I really thought FFXIII VS was the title that was being released later. Very good news indeed. I will be a lot less bitter about having to wait for the other title if this actually pans out.

    As far as development… I’m not sure wikipedia agrees with you…

  29. CarlB:

    It still might be, release dates are fickle things.

    Sure it does:

    “The game runs on the Crystal Tools engine, a seventh generation multiplatform game engine built by Square Enix for its future games. The engine and the game were originally slated to be used with the PlayStation 2 but were later moved to the PlayStation 3″

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XIII

    The Crystal Tools engine is a multiplatform game engine that uses the PC as a base platform.

  30. CarlB:

    “The Crystal Tools engine, originally named the White Engine, is a game engine built by Square Enix to be used on all seventh generation game consoles; the PlayStation 3, Xbox 360, Wii and with Microsoft Windows PCs.”

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_Tools

    “Square Enix’s Taku Murata of the GM, Research and Development Division spoke to a completely packed audience at GDC (2008). In a session entitled “The Technology of Final Fantasy,” Murata explained the new technical direction of the company for the new generation of gaming platforms.”

    “He noted that in the past, Square Enix has made games specifically for one platform. However, that’s not what they’re interested in pursuing in the future. ”
    “In 2004, the company wanted to a “common 3D data format” to work on. This decision occurred as hardware manufacturers started offering new details on the current generation of hardware.”

    joystiq.com/2008/02/22/gdc08-square-enix-unveils-crystal-tools-engine/

  31. Barnabe Jones:

    Touché

  32. lock_down:

    Wikipedia can agree with anyone given the right editing…

  33. CarlB:

    lock_down,

    That’s why I usually end up using original sources instead of wikipedia.

  34. Arvis:

    If anyone believes that having to create an entirely new port of the game WON’T make the localization process longer than it would normally be, then you’re either an idiot, or you have an agenda.

    That being said, the blame for this delay should be placed ONLY on Square Enix. They know there is little to no market for this title on the 360, but went the “easy money” route despite that. All Microsoft can be accused of is writing a check to try and further diversify the 360′s library of games. This may be “playing dirty” to some, but I call it “playing with the cards you’ve been dealt.”

    In conclusion: Square Enix can burn, but I’m still buying the game.

    -Arvis

  35. jojo29:

    Well, i can’t find the old article where Square themselves stated the White Engine was being built exclusively for the PS3. But i have a theory.

    Things evolve and change. It could be that Square started the White Engine to be for the PS3 only, and later evolved it to be more multi-platform.

    This would make the most sense since they have to wait for the PS3 version to be “completed and localized” then start the daunting task of porting it to the lesser 360 :)

    The White Engine/Crystal Engine takes advantage of the SPEs that a Cell Processor has, BUT i think they evolved it to include multi-threading i.e the 360s processor.

    So, in the end, i believe we are all correct. I will try and find the article, i even think i have a magazine that says it, that the White Engine was being tailor made for the PS3. But, as $quare has changed, evolved it to be more of a multi-platform “Crystal Engine”. The White Engine was its code name, changes were made now we have the “Crystal Engine”. See both sides win.

  36. CarlB:

    Arvis,

    You seem to have missed the point that the game is being developed on an engine designed with both the 360 and PS3 in mind, using the PC as a base platform. If you are right though, having to create a port for PS3 will take longer as it usually does with PC based titles. Even, if it does take longer to develop the 360 version, it will not take nearly as long as what is being alluded to here, and it will be well within the constraints of the average localization timeframe considering they will most likely have a dedicated team for each console’s version.

    You also seem to be ignoring the fact that the 360 is responsible for selling millions more RPG’s than the PS3, so there is definitely a market for this title.

    In conclusion: Square Enix will still bring you VS XIII this year, and we will both be playing FFXIII next year (unless you decide to pick up the PS3 exclusive Japanese version this year).

  37. Barnabe Jones:

    *Stands up and applauds*

  38. Barnabe Jones:

    Damn you’re a quick one Carl… I was applauding Arivs by the way.

  39. darkwhitehair:

    holy shit… carl is like an upgraded version of kev…

    if they dont have more “real time battles” in the new FF.. I aint buying it…

  40. Barnabe Jones:

    After all this is a game without space marines and is not a FPS… it will be interesting to see the sales breakdown for each console.

  41. Barnabe Jones:

    I think VS is supposedly more like Kingdom Hearts/Crisis Core battle system…. I’m not even sure about XIII though. All I know is that it is supposed to be very stylized and the fights are supposed to resemble the fight scenes from Advent Children.

  42. SW:

    Hey! Carl is no kev.

    If kev’s 360 burned his house down he would blame the wood for being so damn flammable.

  43. darkwhitehair:

    difference is… carl brings something new to the table… and actually makes sense… most of the times… dont EVER let me say that again…

  44. CarlB:

    It doesn’t fit the still inaccurately touted “360 is shooter only” mentality, so some people will think “there is no market for it” on the 360.

    Anyway, to support a point that “there is a market” for this game on 360, the bestselling JRPG on PS3 is Valkyria Chronicles at .33m
    and the bestselling JRPG on 360 is Lost Odyssey at .88m

    The bestselling RPG on both consoles is Elder Scrolls w/2.63m on 360 and .77m on PS3.

    However I could see where one might use the year head start, so we’ll take Fallout 3 for 1.09m on PS3 (updated Jan09) and 1.87m on 360(updated Nov08).

  45. CarlB:

    darkwhitehair,

    You ARE my fwend!!! (big smile on face)

    SW,

    That, my man, was pretty damned funny!

  46. Arvis:

    SW,

    Classic! *laughs*

    CarlB,

    So you really believe that “Translation” and “Translation + Porting” both equal the same amount of time? Everyone knows you have an agenda, so stop pretending.

    Funny how you can sell “millions” more RPGs when your console actually has them. Look at White Knight Chronicles sales numbers in Japan compared to EVERY RPG released on the 360 combined.

    And I follow Final Fantasy closely, and I’m telling you we won’t be getting VersusXIII in 2009. If we do, I promise I’ll sign off all my posts on this site with “All Hail CarlB!” for a month. *grins*

    -Arvis

  47. darkwhitehair:

    Id like to play Oblivion… but since I dont get trophies on the PS3… Im holding out for a 360… no point in spending 200 hours if I dont get some achievements from that…

  48. CarlB:

    Arvis,

    When it comes to the development team that Square Enix is bound to have dedicated to the 360 during the (usually lengthy) localization period, combined with the PC platform to 360 port record, I do. Doesn’t everyone here have some kind of agenda? And how am I pretending? (happily goes back to FFTWoL on PSP and dreaming of PS2 and 360 waiting for him back home).

    I see that you consider Japan to be the standard for software sales, and on that point, good sah, I bow to you and humbly admit that the PS3 is still the reigning champ over 360… in Japan.

    My deepest aplogies for deigning to use IGN’s release dates and “TBA 2009″ as a reference for said title. So when is it supposed to come out?

  49. darkwhitehair:

    hasnt Square Enix already made some 360 exclusive RPGs?? whats taking them so long?? its not like they are going to revolutionize the RPG genre… its the same thing over and over again…

    yeah I said it… I just pissed off so many people

  50. CarlB:

    darkwhitehair,

    Ah… soooo(chinese accent w/fumanshu mustache and beard)… you do see the method to my madness… wise indeed you are young grasshoppah.

  51. CarlB:

    I was talking about the achievements you brought up earlier dwh, but that fits too (lol).

  52. Arvis:

    CarlB,

    Dammit, I’m all set to shake my bored fist at you, but you had to go and remind me that you’re playing the greatest game ever made.
    If you truly believe in your heart of hearts that porting will cause no significant delay to the release of FFXIII, then I guess I’ll just concede the point. I’m no programmer, so I suppose it could be possible.

    As for Versus’ release date, we have nothing concrete, but the only way we’re getting it stateside is if SE releases the game in the States BEFORE they release it in Japan. SE would never in a million years release TWO huge flagship titles (XIII and Versus) that close to each other. In other words, Japan will only be getting ONE of them this year, and we already which one that is. Meaning, Americans won’t be getting either one this year.

    -Arvis

  53. darkwhitehair:

    dude… youre so drunk… hahahhahahahaah

    BLAME MICROSOFT !! BURN THeM TO THE GROUND!!!

    THEY ARE WITCHES AND THEY LIKE BLACK PEOPLE!!!

    rawr rawr rawr…

    boy I hope this isnt what you younglings call “racism”

  54. darkwhitehair:

    *slaps arvis and carl*

    BAD BOYS!!! We all know Fallout 3 is a better RPG…

  55. CarlB:

    darkwhitehair, what is wrong with witches and black people? Does not every single beautiful life on the face of this wonderful planet deserve to be liked? One or more of your ancestors was a witch and black, judging by your name here (ROFL)… I GOT it, THAT’s why you like the 360 so much, because Microsoft likes you… how could I have been so buhLLIINNND!!! Hey what was that slap for? I never said it was a bettah RPG…*slaps darkwhitehair the closet black witch disguised as a witch hunter upside head with large smelly flounder (or is it trout??? Salmon???)*

  56. darkwhitehair:

    wait… what were we talking about??? I forgot… I thought I would get drunk too… and now I woke up next to a monkey… WHAT HAZ YOU DONE TO MEEE CARL!!!

  57. Arvis:

    *…and Coherence has now grabbed up it’s hat and coat and is leaving the party*

  58. CarlB:

    *slslapahapa dwh upside the head again with large trout* it is alright dwh, I know it can get overwhelming at times, just remember to go to the happy place we talked about after your “priestly” encounter and you should be okay. *shuts closet door on evil monkey pointing finger at dwh in righteous indignation*

  59. darkwhitehair:

    hahahah nice family guy reference…

    no need for your “holier than thou” attitude here Arvis… we are all losers here…

    *takes another swig from the bottle*

  60. SW:

    ‘no point in spending 200 hours if I dont get some achievements from that…’

    I think what you mean to say is that you would rather grow your e-peen with e-peenvements.

    Playing and completing the game should be fun/achievement enough!

  61. darkwhitehair:

    yeah… it is SW… when its a 10 hour game with lots of multiplayer… not when its a 200 hour game… that takes patience… which should be rewarded with points… or trophies… or hookers…

    either way Im getting my prize…

  62. CarlB:

    SW,

    It is still fun, just not as much once you get used to them. Achievements/trophies are sometimes just added incentive to play the game in a different way (GTA IV and many others), sometimes add longevity to the game (case in Mass Effect and many others) and something unique to look back on once you have finished the game (all).

  63. SW:

    Well, I guess anything that allows you to get more enjoyment out of a game is cool. I personally don’t really enjoy them at all. I get satisfaction when hammering a boss I’ve been having difficulty with or beating a level. Don’t need the trophy/achievement to tell me that. With oblivion for example, I rammed many many hours into that game on pc but in the end it just gets uninstalled and my save data gets deleted :)

    Anywhoos, not saying its bad or anything just not my thing I guess.

    Have a funny hankering for oblivion now… Damn I loved the music in that game, altho the title music was better on morrowind! :)

  64. Dirk:

    Anybody who thinks adding a whole new development cycle to the end of a project wont delay the release of the game is either stupid or in denial.

    Comeon, of course its going to affect the launch date. Localization will affect it as well, but porting/developing on the Xbox 360 after the PS3 version is finished will also delay it.

    Both are factors, however the difference is Microsoft cockblocked the fans that have been waiting for the game.
    It makes sense that Square Enix told Microsoft that they could release FFXIII after the PS3 version comes out and of course Microsoft said hell no, simultanious release even if it means delaying the PS3 version.

    I blame Microsoft for this mess.
    Mikes right, Square Enix always release their US version in time for holiday season after Japanese version.

    Resources (employees etc..) are not a static factor. In other words you can’t tack on more work without hiring equivelant employees to do the work.

    Prior to Microsoft’s cockblock:
    PS3 development -> dev. QA -> Localization -> post Loc. QA

    Post Microsoft’s cockblock:
    PS3 development -> dev. QA -> Xbox 360 devlopment -> Localization -> post Loc. QA PS3, pst Loc. QA Xbox 360

    Post Msft’s cockblock will require additional resources and teams for development and QA. but the reality is companies will not hire as much resource needed they will try to use existing resources hence extending the whole development timeline.

    Bottom line,
    FACT: Localization takes a long time.
    FACT: adding Xbox 360 development will extend development time
    FACT: FFXIII is delayed “longer” because of the Xbox 360 development.

  65. CarlB:

    Dirk,

    The localized version of the PS3 FFXIII will not be finished before developing the 360 version, and the affect that the port will have will be absorbed by Square Enix’s dedicated development team for the 360 version (as you say, resources are not a static factor, and SE has most likely already hired the people to ensure it will not get delayed – do you really think they have done absolutely nothing since this was announced?), which will see it complete well within the given average localization time frame considering 360′s track record with PC ports and Square Enix’s vast resources. To top this off, the engine the game is being developed on is specifically designed for all three present gen console development, not exclusive PS3 development. It uses the PC as a base platform as well, which is traditionally the 360′s forte, not the PS3′s. The reason they are completing the PS3 version first is because it takes longer to develop for and the PS3 version is exclusive for PS3 in Japan.

    Where was the announcement that the PS3 version would be out June or earlier in Japan? Nonexistent. 2009 in Japan is all.

    Prior to the Microsoft version announcement (v.a.):

    PS3 development (on PC base platform specifically designed for all current gen consoles)-> dev. QA -> Localization -> post Loc. QA

    Post Microsoft’s v.a.:
    PS3 development (on PC base platform specifically designed for all current gen consoles)-> dev. QA -> Localization and 360 dev simultaneously in same time-frame-> simultaneous post Loc. QA PS3 and Xbox 360 QA

    Affect = added development cost to Sqare Enix to hire dedicated team, not added development time resulting in delay of title.

    Post Microsoft v.a. “requires additional resources and teams for development and QA” and the reality is Square Enix already has development teams familiar with developing titles on 360 that are free for this work, let alone the fact that the engine is specifically designed for all current gen consoles, not just PS3.

    Bottom line,

    FACT: Localization takes a long time
    FACT: adding 360 dev will not extend development time as it will be taken care of by a separate dedicated team that Square Enix can easily afford to hire to not cause any delay in the title’s release.
    FACT: FFXIII is not delayed any “longer” because the dedicated development team already has had enough sufficient time and the engine they are using for this game is designed specifically for multiplatform releases, not exclusive PS3 releases.

  66. darkwhitehair:

    cmon carl… youre better than that… putting words like fact in BIG BOLD CAP letters is so tacky and kev like…

    I heard the PS3 is based on Linux… isnt it?? anyways… at the end of the day… there are plenty of good games out there right now… enjoy them… and enjoy FF when it comes out… no matter on which platform…

  67. CarlB:

    darkwhitehair… I just provide the mirror, not the face.

    The PS3 may be, but the engine for this game isn’t… anyways I am continuing to enjoy the games available to me and I hope you do the same… no matter on which platform…

  68. CarlB:

    jojo29:

    “No, development of the White Engine was purely for the PS3. NOW, its being used to develop multi-platform games , but the development was designed ALL around Sony consoles, G’day”

    Sorry, but where did you get this information? Your quote doesn’t support it. Nice conviction though.

    Here is are some better quotes though:

    “Hiromichi Tanaka, an executive officer at Square Enix, and producer of Final Fantasy XI, at his Austin GDC keynote (2007) on Thursday. Tanaka’s experience includes work on Final Fantasy 1, 2, and 3, as well as Xenogears, Chrono Cross, and Secret of Mana.”

    “Last year (2006) we went through a development reorganization, with the development of our own cross-platform middleware – the white engine. This is the foundation for FFXIII”

    gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=15400

    “Square Enix’s Hiroshi Takai, and his team — and he says it was “a lot easier” to work with than the PlayStation 3.”

    “I don’t even know what my next project is going to be at Square Enix,” Takai adds. “However, I’m very much hoping it’ll be for Xbox 360, as it’s been a lot easier to work with than PlayStation 3.”

    gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=21549

  69. Mike Ferro:

    @CarlB,

    I appreciate your zeal and confidence that you feel SE would hire comparable number of employees to take on the additional project, but speaking from experience and a bit of insider knowledge about the state of SE I highly doubt they have done so.
    With the state of the economy in Japan and with the Yen being so strong, Square Enix most likely has not hired equivelant resources. Although I am not saying they did not hire zero resources after the late agreement to do development on the Xbox 360.

    You may be suprised to hear some news about SE in the coming month.

    I’ve actually worked on multimillion dollar projects much more complex on an enterprise and arcitecture level where development on middleware apps such as websphere took place and additional platforms had to be supported late in the life cycle of the SDLC.
    From my experience, even in companies like IBM and Microsoft who I have worked for in the past, additional projects almost never translate into equivelant resource allocation. Existing supporting roles, such as PM, TDM, Dev, Architects have to be stretched out across more projects due to their unique knowledge.
    The net effect is the overall timeline gets stretched 100% of the time.

    I am in agreement with your feeling that additional projects deserve equivelent ressource allocation, but the reality is that never happens.
    Companies never hire the exact number of needed people because of the resource related issues ramp ups cause after a project is completed and there is no need for them.

    Companies will almost always push back release dates rather than hire additional resources, that has always been the case. This is of course my professional opinion.

    Also, there seems to be some confusion, the “White Engine” was developed specifically for the PS3 in mind since 2006. The development platform for the middleware is of course the PC, like any other console engine (Unreal Engine etc…)
    However, when SE announced the rebadging of the White Engine to Crystal Tools, that is when they announced support for all 7th Gen consoles. This was in an effort to support as many platforms as possible in a video game economy where production costs have skyrocketed.

    If you do searches back from 2006 – 2007 you will find many evidence where SE has specifically stated the White Engine was developed for the PS3. It was only announced in 2008, that it would support all platforms.

    I you don’t want to take my word for it, maybe you will take Wired’s:
    http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/02/finalfantasy.html

  70. CarlB:

    @Mike Ferro,

    You are probably right, because they won’t need to hire a comparable number of employees for the 360 version, seeing as the toughest part of the development process would be developing the PS3 version, and it is completed on a PC platform with an engine designed for both the 360 and PS3. Equivalent resource allocation isn’t really necessary considering the bulk of the work will be done already on a platform specifically designed for both consoles.

    Mike, that is a nice blog by an individual, but not an official Wired article, and there are no quotes to be found from Square Enix saying that the White Engine was developed only with the PS3 in mind. There is a quote above however, stating that the company had multi-platform in mind since 2004, and that the Crystal Tools engine was designed with all platforms in mind. While it may well have been only for the PS3 at one point, we may never know, and that time is too long gone to affect the end development of this title at this point regardless.

  71. Mike Ferro:

    @CarlB,

    “..nice blog by an individual, not an offical Wired article”?

    LOL, I’m not sure how Chris Kohler, Sr. writer for Wierd, would feel about that comment considering that article is part of Wired’s Blog news feed- similar to here.

    Carl you don’t have to look for quotes because we (game journos) usually go by press releases sent straight to our inbox by Square Enix, or we get slapped on the wrist by the PR police.
    Here is another source from GamePro:
    http://www.gamepro.com/article/previews/123108/final-fantasy-xiii/

    SE has been bragging that the White Engine was developed ground up to take advantage of the Cell’s SPUs. I even grilled Murata at E3 06 about how the White Engine would utlize the SPUs in the Cell. Only once they oficially changed the name to Crystal Tools in 2008 they started saying the tool supports Xbox 360 and Wii (partially).

    Also you misread my comment, I didn’t say comparable number of employees for 360 development, I said equivelant resource allocation per additional projects taken on.

    Meaning that in the SDLC, project deliverables milestones are set, and taking on additional projects such as Xbox 360 porting late in the cycle will require additional resource that is equivelant to the added work.
    For example, if the additional project (Xbox 360 porting) requires an additional 30 QA team addition, 15 Xbox 360 devs, 6 PMOs, 9 TDMs, 10 gfx, to complete the project on time, realistically only a fraction will actually get hired- with the idea of delaying the deadline.
    Its a corporate trade off, money vs time. Thats how delays often happen.

    Pretty much beating a dead horse, I won’t be going into this any further – I think I might have said too much already anyway ;)

  72. CarlB:

    @Mike,

    LOL, I’m sure he doesn’t care, as it really is a blog after all, he wasn’t quoting the source (press release or otherwise), he never said it was announced for PS3 development “only” (but I will hit the “I believe” button on this one so we can move on, as your other quote only states, “FF XIII will be built on the company’s proprietary White Engine, which is tooled to render animated sequences specifically using the PS3′s Cell processor”), and the point of the argument we seem to be straying from is that the 360 version will not significantly delay the end release of this version of FFXIII given that this quote from your source:

    “Although “White Engine” was originally announced in 2006 as a PlayStation 3 game creation platform, it has since become multiplatform, including Xbox 360 and PC capabilities”

    was published February of 2008, and the 360 version was announced August of 2008, which still leaves at least a year and a half for whoever they hire to complete the port of what is already existing at this time working with an engine redesigned with the 360 specifically in mind long ago.

    So given that the game will be finished on a multiplatform engine geared with the PS3 and 360 in mind, how long do you think a port of the title from a PC platform engine to 360 will actually have delayed release beyond the (6-7mo avg) localization process?

  73. Barnabe Jones:

    PS3 guys,

    Just three short months from now on April 16th, the Final Fantasy XIII demo will be available for sale in Japan. The demo will be packaged along with the Blu-ray release of Advent Children. The movie does have English subtitles. It’s priced at about $69 with an extra $5 to ship to the US. If anyone is interested you can preorder it at the link below. Just add the www. to the beginning…

    play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-a7-49-en-70-384b.html

  74. Barnabe Jones:

    PS3 guys,

    Just three short months from now on April 16th, the Final Fantasy XIII demo will be available for sale in Japan. The demo will be packaged along with the Blu-ray release of Advent Children. The movie does have English subtitles. It’s priced at about $69 with an extra $5 to ship to the US. If anyone is interested you can preorder it at the link below.

    play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-a7-49-en-70-384b.html

  75. CarlB:

    Looks like even the PS3 demo by itself has been delayed by a month without any help from 360, considering it’s original release was supposed to take place in March of 2009 as mentioned above.

  76. Barnabe Jones:

    Oh Carl B…. I will be preordering it though. $75 for a movie and a demo is a lot of money, but it’s worth it. Regardless of the 360 Square is known for delaying games… I’m betting the US will actually have the finished version later than mid-2010. I on the other hand will be playing the demo in a matter of weeks *smiles*

  77. CarlB:

    Barnabe Jones,

    I wouldn’t doubt that date if the Japanese exclusive PS3 version didn’t come out till December 2009 or was delayed later, considering Sony PS3 titles in general are known for being delayed regardless of the third party’s name or 360 ports. But you know which one will be the first to get blamed if it is. Let me know how the demo turns out. Have you played the RE5 demo yet? Did you like it?

  78. Barnabe Jones:

    Carl – Since I’m pretty much only at my girlfriends’ house on the weekends, it makes it hard. I never have a chance… and when I do, I forget. I will go out on a limb and say I love the demo… or I will love the demo.

    I’m really excited about the FFXIII demo. My only hesitation is that the demo itself will be in all Japanese. Since I can not read or write Japanese… I’m not sure how much I’ll actually get out of it. Too bad I do not have any Japanese friends. I would make them sit there and watch and translate everything to me.

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