Microsoft: E74 created to cover up RRoD for Xbox 360?
The E74 bug/issue on the Xbox 360 is a problem that has gotten some scrutiny recently. Microsoft quickly acted on the escalating issue by extending the RRoD three year warranty to cover the E74 issue as well. However, some clues from a Microsoft rep. alludes to the fact that the E74 and the RRoD could be the same problem masked differently.
Just when I thought the E74 issue would go away some new and interesting fact pops up. According to Kotaku, there is a suspicion that the newly crafted E74 error might be the RRoD in a different form. I have to admit that I have never seen this E74 error prior to the update that accompanied the NXE later on.
Brian Crecente, creator of Kotaku, reached out to Microsoft to get some clarification around the E74 debacle. He questioned the representative on the difference between the E74 and the RRoD.
Crecente asked if the E74 code is in anyway a replacement to the RRoD. The rep flat out denied those claims, while stating that in some cases there may be association to the RRoD. Crecente then argued that there seems to be a contradiction considering that both issues can point to the same hardware failure but they’re not supposed to be the same.
The Microsoft rep admitted:
In some cases there is no difference. As we said, the E74 error message and three flashing red lights can in some cases indicate the same general hardware failure. However, it is not the same failure mode in all cases and there is no single root cause for these malfunctions.
It sounds like Crecente might be right, that there is some overlap with the E74 error and the RRoD. Could this go back to the speculation that Microsoft worked out a way for the Xbox 360 to show the RRoD less frequently and display another error message instead?
This does seem to support Crecente’s claim back in 2007 that Microsoft was working on a way for the RRoD to be displayed differently. I really don’t care if my Xbox 360 starts break dancing instead of giving me the RRoD as long as Microsoft covers it. However, I’ll be tad bit irritated at Microsoft if the company is indeed taking me for a fool.
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April 21st, 2009
yeah… im just ganna stay out of this one…
April 21st, 2009
yeah sure FERRO, whatever. Need some hits do you?
April 21st, 2009
@harry,
You know I only bring out the good stuff for you guys.
Who wants to hear some derivative drivel thats been spammed across the Web and back?
April 21st, 2009
I will come here no matter what.
harry sachz:
Is true Microsoft is just taking this issue like a joke. That’s why is costing them a fortune and they still cannot fix the problem pathetic engineers.
Soon i bet the new Jasper motherboard will start giving us owner of that model some new problems. I hope I’m wrong i don’t want my console near Microsoft is bad luck.
Mike….Mickey and Dave…David post great articles.
bigmickyd:
Say something.
April 21st, 2009
no, staying right out of this one
April 21st, 2009
Who cares if it is.
A failure is a failure is a failure.
Just get it fixed!
April 21st, 2009
Who cares.
April 21st, 2009
SW:
No a failure is bad thing and getting fix takes like a month and too much hassle waiting. Fuck that shit pure junk trash Xbox 360 sucks not a single fucking model is reliable. Xbox 360 is the biggest hardware disaster in the world.
Plus sending a console every 4 months sucks.
April 21st, 2009
Man, we TOTALLY need a forum.
I need a sig. line that says “Fuck that shit pure junk trash Xbox 360″
April 21st, 2009
You know whats gonna happen?
Im gonna buy my 360… then gonna get a double dose of E74 and Red Rings… cause the tech gawds hate me… ohh what are we talking about here?
ohh no…
*backs away slowly*
April 21st, 2009
no dwh…you’ll get that simply because M$ hardware sucks.
April 21st, 2009
bought my shitty laptop… if I had researched… and paid $100 more… I couldve played all the latest games…
same with PS3… if I had bought it a month earlier… I would have had backwards compatibility…
sigh.. technology hates me…
April 21st, 2009
You’re probably right Mr Ferro.
April 21st, 2009
Well I am gonna enter into this one…….
Nah, not really. I will live and let be.
Peace brothers, Out !!
April 21st, 2009
staying rrrrriiiiiiggggghhhhhhttttt away from this one…
April 21st, 2009
I think we can at least all agree that MS won’t be letting their next console hemorrhage Warranty charges like it has this gen.
MS next gen are likely not going to be in a position to keep dishing out replacements, extended warranties and repairs on the fly given that their cash cow and prop-up business in Windows is seeing constant decline in revenue, and will probably to continue to do so given the rise of netbooks.
April 21st, 2009
bigmickyd: How old are you? 11?
April 21st, 2009
re-read the this post by mike ferro…
the see why im staying the hell away from this one
April 21st, 2009
then see why im staying the hell away from this one
April 21st, 2009
you don’t have to keep saying it.
April 21st, 2009
Well it sure sounds like Microsoft has got it’s foot up it’s ass on this one. That was such a stupid move. Why is Microsoft taking a page out of Sony’s book. Don’t stoop that low Microsoft but I guess you just did. Well we all have our faults but if it wasn’t for Peter Moores comments about Microsoft and Sony’s efforts to bring the motion control to the consoles and saying that Microsoft likes to think ahead 3-4 years for it’s customer and improve on what it’s done, I think is a clear indicator that Microsoft at least still has the customer in mind and is still committed to the games and improving the offerings of the 360. I can forgive RROD and E74 as long as they don’t loose their focus like some other companies we know that are currently in 3rd place.
April 21st, 2009
CAD
“Microsoft at least still has the customer in mind ”
Microsoft: ” Aww shit, the RROD is happening even on our NEWER cores..I know, lets just trick the playerbase by making the code show up as “E74″, they’ll believe anything we tell them, we already raping them for $50 extra bugs on our Live “service”…
Yeah that sounds like they sure do have the customer in mind…NOT..
And CAD: “Why is Microsoft taking a page out of Sony’s book. Don’t stoop that low Microsoft ”
Really, Sony’s Hardware is what a TRUE Next-Generation system is all about: QUALITY manufacturing…Maybe Microsoft should stoop that “low”…maybe their broken system records would finally drop…..
CAD: “and saying that Microsoft likes to think ahead 3-4 years for it’s customer and improve on what it’s done”
yeah….the new cores are definitely an improvement….just ignore the CONTINUED RROD…oops i mean E74 broken systems…
April 21st, 2009
Yeah, would had for the Xbots to miss out on 1 or 2 FPS because someone at M$ lost their focus. Wait, who cares about the Xbots, they give loyalty to a company that sold them self imploding cubes of fecal matter.
April 21st, 2009
had = hate
April 21st, 2009
Mike Ferro:
“Who wants to hear some derivative drivel thats been spammed across the Web and back?”
Isn’t that exactly what this is?
In fact when I mentioned this first here in the last week or so ago it was exactly because the conspiracy lunacy was doing the rounds and my point was that Microsoft had scotched that sort of idiocy but moving fast to include E74 into the 3yr warranty.
Late to the party Mike, very late.
“there is a suspicion that the newly crafted E74 error might be the RRoD in a different form”
My infomation is that E74 can arise from a broad collection of faults.
How can Microsoft be “taking you for a fool” when they acted so quickly to extend their (excellent) warranty – particularly on a fault which in nothing like as ‘narror’ as RROD was?
…..and before the usual suspects start jumping up and down with joy at the thought of all Xboxes suffering a new problem I’d like to see them produce a credible stat showing late model Xboxes (Falcon & Jasper) suffering this.
My understanding is that it’s still confined largely to Xenon and Zephyrs with this problem.
Of course that’s not to say every single Falcon or Jasper is perfect but then no-one makes a perfect every time product.
April 21st, 2009
Mike Ferro
“This does seem to support Crecente’s claim back in 2007 that Microsoft was working on a way for the RRoD to be displayed differently”.
I’d just also point out that given the bad rap Microsoft has had with RROD it’s not exactly unknown for companies (in other industries) to do anything they can to get rid of the problem, even changing it to show as another different ‘name’.
But ultimately the matter still comes down to how they deal with the problem and here Microsoft have done all the right things.
They fixed the hardware and they set up an industry leading warranty with free repairs to fix the problem if it arises.
You can’t really ask much more than that
(other than the predictable fanboy children who want to spent the rest of eternity ’stating the bl*eding obvious’ that it should not have arisen in the first place).
April 21st, 2009
My comments always bring out the children.
April 21st, 2009
Happyhockum:
“They fixed the hardware and they set up an industry leading warranty with free repairs to fix the problem if it arises.”
Lets fix this statement for you:
“They TRIED AND FAILED to fix the hardware, and when their customers caught on their spin that “their is no RROD”, they then put out a big shiny ” industry leading” warranty to disorient and distract the customers, with free repairs thrown in to fix THAT SPECIFIC problem, only to have those break eventually as well…”
Fixed
and thus i agree 
In all “srznez” yes, i commend MS for extending the warranty to “include” the RROD…ahem…E74..fault thats out in such a speedy manner
April 21st, 2009
April 21st, 2009
It’s not fanboyism to have certain expectations of expensive hardware (whatever your definition of expensive is). They will have to work 10x as hard (next gen basically) with years of awesome track record before I vote with my dollars on this issue, and buy any console MS branded.
Companies have gotten far worse treatment for mistakes that were far less severe.
April 21st, 2009
JofaMang
I’m pretty sure, somehow, some way, they will try, if they can, if they really work at it…… to get along without your $.
April 21st, 2009
They’ve done this well without it so far
April 21st, 2009
Poor sad blorge, still trying to drum up hits with the same tired old bs, might be best to leave the reporting to people who know how to do it without bitching.
/back to Kotaku.
April 21st, 2009
“It’s not fanboyism to have certain expectations of expensive hardware”
- Well put. I would freak out if my TV, Computer, Receiver, Ipod, etc failed to work as a result of defective hardware. And I sure as hell wouldn’t go out and buy the same model of said failed hardware time and time again.
April 21st, 2009
Barnabe Jones:
Except you wouldn’t be would you?
The SKU has changed 3 times since the original launch model.
If you can prove to us all that the last 2 versions of the Xbox are “the same model of said failed hardware” and have the same fail rates then I’ll stop calling you (and your pals) on it every time you come out with that stupid nonsense.
Deal?
April 21st, 2009
Stop calling responsible consumerism “stupid nonsense”. It is completely valid to avoid an entire company’s products because of a single event. It is called voting with your dollars.
But this isn’t a single event. This is 3+ years of abusing the consumer, and regardless of their extended warranties and changing the RRoD to E74, M$ needs to be held to task, and made to prove itself reformed.
But this is the company that gave us Vista, so odds are they will never get it. Preying on stupidity is an easy way to make money in America.
April 21st, 2009
JofaMang
It is stupid nonsense.
It is stupid nonsense to claim that nothing has changed and that all Xboxes are “the same model of said failed hardware”.
That is patently a lie.
The entire point of this tale (Microsoft: E74 created to cover up RRoD for Xbox 360?) is absurd.
Not only have they been quick to comment about it they have also included it in their 3 year warranty quickly too.
“this is the company that gave us Vista”
Yeah, that was so awful wan’t it?
LMAO
Vista may have been resource hungry (but who really cares at a time of falling RAM prices anyways?) and there may have been certain driver issues (which I suggest is down to the lazy approach of certain peripheral sellers) but I have heard nothing but positive stuff about Vista after SP1.
OK, on to the next straw you want to clutch at….
April 21st, 2009
Where did I claim that nothing changed? I don’t feel that M$ has proven to me that they are any better than the company that released a broken 360 to the market. I have higher standards than Xbots I guess. Give me a few years of stalwart reliability, and perhaps M$ will earn a chunk of my paycheck. I will say it again: I am a gamer first, and would love to own a 360, but I will not reward MS until they have PROVEN to me that they care about consumers beyond damage control.
And now you defend Vista? HAH. A bloated OS with very little tangible benefit over its predecessor, XP. So little in fact, that XP is still more popular than Vista, when given the choice. If cheap ram is the only answer you feel is needed for these issues, I am afraid you are woefully uneducated (or willfully ignorant) about the “Vista Capable” requirement debacle.
There is a reason M$ is releasing Windows 7 so quickly (compared to the gestation of Vista). They are trying to sweep vista under the rug. They don’t fix their mistakes, they try to ignore them until the market bites them, then they do damage control. Often in the form of a new improved and more expensive product.
April 21st, 2009
“I really don’t care if my Xbox 360 starts break dancing instead of giving me the RRoD as long as Microsoft covers it.”
Well said Mike. Taking 2 weeks out (for RRoD repairs fixed free of charge, priority shipping included) of 3.5 years still equals 1 (or 1.5, depending on your territory) year more of present gen gaming to date.
April 21st, 2009
JofaMang
You need to be lighter on your feet that that.
You can’t rush to specifically defend another poster’s comments (the stupid nonsense bit) and then start to cry and wet your panties when called on it.
Your Vista whinge is pi$$ poor too.
Bloated?
I don’t give a f*ck, I have 4gbs of RAM and plenty to spare.
I can always buy a lot more (cos Vista can handle it for next to nothing too if I choose).
Besides, you’re barking up the wrong tree, I’m a happy XP SP3 user.
I just find your reflex MS bash laughably poor.
“Vista Capable”?
Is that what’s really bugging you?
Not much of a gripe really.
As the failed court case proved.
You’re guessing/mind-reading games over Windows 7 are amusing but as per laughably short on the truth.
Windows 7 is coming whan it is because MS do not want a re-run of XP.
They want a product to have a ‘life-span’ in keeping with their needs too.
Given the way XP hit Vista I can’t say as I blame them.
We’d all love a ‘buy-once-perfect-forever’ OS but that’s never going to happen.
But you have a choice.
Avoid them if you feel so badly about them.
Go ahead, knock yourself out.
Fail.
April 21st, 2009
I would have to guess that if I went out to the store and bought a 360 at this very moment, it would probably be fine…
I’m actually less inclined to buy a 360 at the moment due to the whole timed exclusives thing. I just find that whole practice so… wrong.
April 21st, 2009
@HH
My complaint about Vista Capable wasn’t about current issues, but yet another black mark on M$ record on dealing with the public.
I also can run Vista as it is meant to, I have a powerful rig, but I run Xp 64 instead (8 gigs of ram, phenom II 940). You are missing my point (either through your ignorance or intentionally to distract from my message) that the company has a laughable customer service record, and a history of forcing flawed products to market, only to back pedal to save face.
That is not a company I want to vote for with my dollars. I think I have been pretty clear about my principles. Where is the fail in that?
April 21st, 2009
Vista Capable was all Intel’s doing.
April 21st, 2009
Oh, so M$ was the victim with Vista Capable? hah!
April 21st, 2009
Well…yeah. Microsoft changed the requirements after pressure from Intel to support the Intel 915 which couldn’t support Aero; after all the only real difference between Capable and Premium is the Aero effect.
In any case, Vista is still a dog of an operating system…Windows 7 is certainly an improvement judging by the various beta’s I’ve used, but whether it is going to make too much difference to both the perception and performance of Windows, especially on the growing netbook market, is debatable; the whole Windows 7 Starter scenario that it is planning is already garnering MS some rightful criticism.
Not that I really care though, I’m a happy 10.4 user and looking forward to 10.6.
April 21st, 2009
JofaMang
I think this is you problem right here –
“or intentionally to distract from my message”
Please, say it isn’t so.
Do you really come here to spread the word huh?
LMAO
April 21st, 2009
Windows 7 Starter is another great example of M$ gouging the market. After they make a few extra million off the upgrade people will be forced to pay for to run more than 3 applications at the same time, I am sure they will pack pedal again.
Aside from this, I am actually optimistic about Windows 7, although I haven’t been compelled by any news to rush out and upgrade from my XP64.
April 21st, 2009
Hey if Jofamang wants to have higher standards because first generation 360’s are giving up the ghost and he thinks all are affected then let him think that. It basically results in taking 3rd place, Having a company that forgot about it’s customers, Having a system that copies features from everyone else, An inferior online experience, Half ass First party games that don’t sell, game development that takes 2-3 Years, and Sackboy as your Mascot. Congratulations for choosing the higher standard.
April 21st, 2009
GrumpyHockum said: “My infomation is that E74 can arise from a broad collection of faults.”
And yet he insists on defending not only the faulty product but the company that continues to keep selling it.
Meet me half way here, Grumpy. You want “proof” that Jasper chipsets are still failing at an unacceptable rate. Well, I want “proof” that they aren’t. Where do you suppose we find this information? Microsoft is the only one with hard numbers and for some MYSTERIOUS reason don’t seem to want to release the numbers on this issue. Can’t think of any POSSIBLE reason WHY they would be remaining silent on it, either.
-Arvis
April 21st, 2009
Every post is a message from each of us. You prove that you can’t argue the real points, but distract from them, this time with semantics. Please prove me wrong. I avoid replying to the harcore xbots for the same reason.
I don’t generally consider you an Xbot, as I have seen you use much more logic and informed debate than the Holy Trinity of CADCONKEV, but that was straight neocon style tactics.
April 21st, 2009
“the whole timed exclusives thing. I just find that whole practice so… wrong”
1. Microsoft gets a timed exclusive for incredibly less money than it takes to get a full exclusive or buy whole studios for themselves.
2. Other console owners get to play the game later. 360 owners enjoy a game earlier than other console owners, other console owners aren’t left without the title completely.
Win win.
I would guess that if I went out to the store and bought a base PS3 at this very moment, it would cost $150-$200 more than the other base consoles, have zero games included, have features I do not care about but still have to pay for in a game console, such as blu-ray and wireless, not have trophies across all games, and have had PS2 bc taken out, yet I may still be able to pay for PS2 games over PSN or on Blu-Ray in the future.
“I just find that whole practice so… wrong.”
April 21st, 2009
I think it’s safe to assume that the charge for putting 7 on a machine will not be as high as it is for Vista (about $60-70 per machine).
That’s why I said before that MS will probably be ensuring that the next Xbox is absolutely bullet-proof from the very start.
When you consider that Windows revenue accounts for more than half of all MS operating income, and that Windows revenue (and market share) is declining; the already unpopular perception of its Windows 7 netbook plan, the best time to buy to buy a truly reliable Xbox will probably be next gen…because MS probably won’t be able to afford the warranties/replacements/repairs that they have lavished on customers this generation.
April 21st, 2009
Arvis:
“GrumpyHockum”
Oh please Arvis, reduced to lame name-calling now are you?
FFS.
“And yet he insists on defending not only the faulty product but the company that continues to keep selling it”.
Actually I was questioning the lie that Microsoft were selling “the same model of said failed hardware”.
“Meet me half way here, Grumpy. You want “proof” that Jasper chipsets are still failing at an unacceptable rate. Well, I want “proof” that they aren’t. ”
You’ll find proving a negative is a logaical impossibility.
Fail.
JofaMang:
“Every post is a message from each of us”.
OK matey, you preach on and spread your ‘message’.
I think most of here are simply commentating on what we read, not trying to get out a ‘message’.
“but that was straight neocon style tactics.”
Oh come on, get over yourself.
This is a spot of back and forth about game consoles, not a deep political debate.
Leo Strauss and his gang of loopy followerrs have nothing to do with it.
April 21st, 2009
“You’ll find proving a negative is a logaical impossibility.
Fail.”
Perhaps for your limited intellectual capacity, Grumpy, but for the rest of us we need only see the stats that say the Jasper/Falcon chipsets are failing within acceptable rates for consumer electronics. This would, in fact, “prove” that they are not “failing unacceptably,” would it not? Seems simple to me, but then again, I have a functioning brain, you high-minded, arrogant infant.
-Arvis
April 21st, 2009
Oh dear Arvis, you do have it bad.
I expect Mocrosoft will puiblish that sort of info the day Sony et al publish similar confidential details on their products, do you think?
Meanwhile anyone effected by these Xbox problems don’t really have to worry about them what with them having a nice long 3 tear warranty to look after them.
I suggest you try diluting a little of your ridiculous bitchy bile with a long lie down in a darkened room.
You’ll feel better for it & maybe recover a little sense of perspective while you’re at it.
April 21st, 2009
Grumpy,
So I was right, wasn’t I?
-Arvis
April 21st, 2009
I’m now on my 9th xbox console. 6 because of RROD and 3 because of this E74. I agreewith Ivan, this is the worst disaster in the world.
April 21st, 2009
Hey two of my buddies got their 360’s back in 3 Days. I got mine back in 1 week. Not much to complain about with that kind of turn around.
April 21st, 2009
Arvis:
“So I was right, wasn’t I”?
Let’s put it like this, Microsoft could release whatever data they liked and my bet would be that you along with the likes of Ivan would never believe a word of it aways.
Same way as I don’t believe a word Sony or their tame/paid outlets have to say.
April 21st, 2009
“Hey two of my buddies got their 360’s back in 3 Days. I got mine back in 1 week. Not much to complain about with that kind of turn around.” Heres your proof happychokum
Hows that foot in your mouth taste?
@CAD, the fact that you had to give up your system up for xdays/xweeks is horrible enough!
CarlB said” I would guess that if I went out to the store and bought a base PS3 at this very moment, it would cost $150-$200 more than the other base consoles,”
Try $100-$150 more, remember, we don’t pay for online, and guess what? $100 more for a MUCH BETTER built system is more than worth it…actually you’d probably pay MORE if your warranty is gone….
“have zero games included,”
This is just stupid, there are bundles/deals everywhere, c’mon, your not that dumb are you?? Don’t answer that..
“have features I do not care about but still have to pay for in a game console, such as blu-ray and wireless,”
ROLF, so you’d rather PAY 150+ for wireless and $200 more for BR? Those “features” are way more than worth it, and the wireless IS important, as the core audience for the 360 fanbase are around the college DORM ROOM type…
“not have trophies across all games”
There are tropies, and if you write off a game for not having tropies, then your just a flat out idiot..
“and have had PS2 bc taken out,”
I agree, was a stupid move on Sony’s part….but i m one of the lucky few
“yet I may still be able to pay for PS2 games over PSN or on Blu-Ray in the future.”
Which is good though….more Features !
April 21st, 2009
Yes, but JoJo29 you wait 2-3 year for 1 game to be developed. That is more then Horrible!!!
April 21st, 2009
Oh this is Hilarious. i just looked at that poll and Sony is winning for the best Online Functionality. What a joke!!!! LOL
April 21st, 2009
CAD,
Wasn’t Too Human in development for 10 years or something like that? Next-gen games take a long time to make, regardless of console (except for Wii games, which us Blorgers could make in a weekend). I think we can all agree with that.
-Arvis
April 21st, 2009
Amazing, simply amazing. I left this site months ago. I come back to see what’s going on and Cad is spewing the same old crap word for word. Cad, do trophies make you feel better about your small penis size or what? I’ve never compared trophies and have no plans ever to do so.
Please Cad get some new material, there is plenty out there that Sony screws up on.
Then there is Happho, you were pretty new when I left. But reading your comments I can see you are the perfect MS customer. You are arrogant, like to hear your self talk (type) and you eat up MS’s bullshit, thank them for it and then ask for seconds. That’s awesome. Why are you so concerned about what system people buy and choose to play? If you are so hardcore just stay on your computer. You won’t have to worry about RRod or E74. You won’t have to worry whether your 360 has a Jasper or a hamster and a wheel. And better yet these people in this blorge wouldn’t have to read your constant rhetoric!
April 21st, 2009
jojo29:
“Hey two of my buddies got their 360’s back in 3 Days. I got mine back in 1 week. Not much to complain about with that kind of turn around.” Heres your proof happychokum Hows that foot in your mouth taste?
Er, ‘proof’ of what, exactly?
Seriously, I have no idea what you’re trying to say here.
2 guys had faults arise and got their consoles back fast…..and what of it?
Wylie77
Reduced to lame personal insults.
Fail.
April 21st, 2009
@Happyhockum
I quoted the wrong person my bad. THIS i was trying to say:
HAPPYHOCKUM SAID:
“It is stupid nonsense.
It is stupid nonsense to claim that nothing has changed and that all Xboxes are “the same model of said failed hardware”.
That is patently a lie. If you can prove to us all that the last 2 versions of the Xbox are “the same model of said failed hardware” and have the same fail rates then I’ll stop calling you (and your pals) on it every time you come out with that stupid nonsense.”
The entire point of this tale (Microsoft: E74 created to cover up RRoD for Xbox 360?) is absurd.”
CON said:
“I’m now on my 9th xbox console. 6 because of RROD and 3 because of this E74. I agreewith Ivan, this is the worst disaster in the world.”
This person is on his NINTH 360…NINE…NINE…SIX because of RROD…and THREE….THREEE….because of the new RROD, E74…
That is your proof of all the 360 models having the same damn problem…stated by one of your own…..
Microsoft has raped this person NINE TIMES…surely he did not pay for the fixes, he still had NINE….count it..NINE Xbox 360s FAIL…This is also makes me wonder if MS counts these NINE, NINE units as “sold”…
End of debate
April 21st, 2009
to CAD
about your ‘takes a LONG time to develop games” on the Sony system…are you for real? or just blind and stupid from MS reaming your face?
MOST high caliber games take YEARS to make..Yes, Sony has been slow to bring them out, but that is NOT the case anymore…in fact, Sony boyz have game to look forward not only this year, but well into next year as well, EXCLUSIVE games at that.
What are you getting this year? ANOTHER damn Halo game? O wait, its not even a full game its considered an EXPANSION pack…and…damn, thats about it for you guys to look forward too….looks like you might be playing the “waiting” this year, unless E3 has some big surprises ( Dead or Alive? Forza?<—in which only one would be worthwhile and its not Forza )
This year we have had Killzone, Uncharted to look forward too, Team Icos new game, a new Ratchet Game ( or expansion? not sure what it will be ) M.A.G, Final Fantasy ( if your in Japan ), next year we will have God of War 3, Gran Tursimo, Final Fantasy VS ( if it really stays exclusive, who knows)…hmm hell of a better lineup than : Halo: ODST, Alan Wake <—which will be out on PC as well LOL
No, I think Sony has it right in focusing on 1st party. I think Sony and MS called it right about this generation looking to be a couple YEARS longer than a standard console life cycle, only i think Sony is doing a much better job of “pacing” theirselves for the final race…
You can call me saying Sony is “pacing” theirselves as an excuse as them not being No.1. The fact of the matter is: MS HAD only ONE franchise i was interested in, Gears, BUT, they released it on the PC, so i have that too now
Also, Sony’s montly sales are down, but, they are right on the heals of the 360. YES, a less than 7 Million gap in a race that is supposed to hit over 160million ( thats where the PS2 currently is at ) is a pretty small gap, especially in light of the following:
Sony released 1 year and 4 months LATE.<–their own fault tho.
Having a $100-$200 price gap<–again on them
Having a VERY slim release game lauch window<–on them again.
Bad Press and even worse PR handling…
Despite ALL this, the PS3 is still gaining momentum….Now look at what we have to look forward:
-The exclusive gaming lineup of 2008-2010…Since 08 Sony has been pushing out great titles after great titles ranging from LBP to MGS4 to Killzone, those alone span 3 different genres, and those games are genre defining..
- The PSN just gets better and better and really only needs one feature to ’smack’ the 360tards in their face: In Game Voice Chat…
- Price Drops…Yes, the 360 can always drop their price even lower but a few things about that:
The 360 is priced the same as the Wii…yet sales are a slightly elevated plateau, and proof of this is the fact that the 360 hasn’t even near the Wii sales, and is barely managing to stay ahead of the PS3.
I think once the PS3 hits around $300, it will start seeing the masses…A LOT of people are STILL just waiting, plus A LOT more people (judging from what i hear around work and in stores, i work near a college campus so i get some pretty great “intel”.) are starting to look at products for VALUE, something the PS3 does in spades…
All in all, despite all the doom and gloom everyone loves to throw on the PS3, the PS3 has a whole lot of steam, tricks up its sleeve
and to further rant:
Im not a fan of Halo, and MS has no good exclusive games outside of that…wait…i do like Project Gotham Racing…but not enough to put up with a RROD and now E74 errors for…and thats really all the 360 has to offer when it really broken down, Halo, most of their other exclusives i can get on PC ( Mass Effect, etc..)
April 21st, 2009
jojo29
“That is your proof of all the 360 models having the same damn problem…stated by one of your own…..”
No.
All you have here is an anecdotal tale of someone experiencing repeated failures (for unknown reasons).
First of all that doesn’t prove anything about it happening with the 5 different Xbox SKUs.
You seem to imagine it does.
How, exactly?
Do you know for sure which SKUs were involved?
Second we know nothing about how the units were used.
For instance, if you put a PS3 in a sealed environmenty and in short order it too will conk out.
We just don’t know for sure.
But straight away you jump on this and you want to believe this ‘proves’ something – I suggest that says more about you.
Microsoft AFAIK replaced every problem unit with another new one.
So that’s a weird version of “rape” you have there
(and this kind of instant leap to violent sexual imagery is typical and always, to me, what’s weird here……I bet if your mother, sister or daughter was ever to suffer being actually raped you’d be a tad more conscious about using such stupid and offensive terms).
The only way this is an ‘end of debate’ is to your closed mind in the 1st place.
My bet is CON is just playing out the rope.
April 21st, 2009
YES!!! YESS!!! DANCE PUPPETS DANCE!!!
I just want to thank Mike Ferro… for digging up a seemingly harmless story and turning it into real flame bait… thank you… we needed that…
I would like to thank Arvis and GrumpyHockum… for being dicks to eachother… and CAD for trying to attract other people’s attention by making riddiculous claims…
well… mick and I are out of this one… because its stupid… Im gonna go sleep… also… potential Marvel VS Capcom 2 announcement soon… me and you arvis… we are playing that…
you know what… sure the 360 has its problems… but so does every other console in every generation… atleast theres a 3 year warranty… just dont brag about getting a 3 year warranty the same way “other people” keep bringing up the red ring in every single argument…
its like a rite of passage… you are not a true gamer if you havent been screwed over by the man… whether it be crippling DRM or faulty hardware…
wow… I didnt know abstaining from porn would make me sound so much more wisdom-ous…
well… back to the circle jerk…
April 21st, 2009
also I hear from the podcasts all the time (mainly the joystiq one) that the failure rate is 30%… if someone could find out the real failure rate… you know do some journalism… IM LOOKING AT YOU BLORGE!
that would be great…
April 21st, 2009
RROD
E74
Disc scratching
power adapter
drive noise.
d-pad from hell
Well at least MS now has shoddy hardware that compliments the shoddy software they make.
Release and patch later. thank you.
April 21st, 2009
Happyhoc,
Sorry if you felt that me calling you a MS customer was an insult. As far as the arrogant comment, well everytime you end your comments with “Fail” you prove the point.
darkwhitehair,
You just got sucked in sucker, ha ha ha. But you do have a good point. You may want to burn all your porn!
April 21st, 2009
On a serious note, I have a question for all PS3 owners.
About a month ago I was on the web with my PS3 and the screen went blue. Then japanese writing in white popped up on the blue screen. (At this point I soiled myself thinking my PS3 just crashed.) Then the writing went away and a rough drawing of a PS3 controller being plugged into the PS3 appeared. So I plugged in my controller and nothing happend. It wouldn’t do anything. I ended up shutting it down by using the power button on the back and then started it back up and it worked fine. No problems since. Question is,
A) has anyone else heard or experienced this before?
B) did I over react by soiling myself?
April 21st, 2009
dwh
30% was a number dreamed up on the basis of a couple of shops return figures.
It is not the current Falcon or Jasper fail rate.
Wylie77
No, it wasn’t the “microsoft customer” that was an insult (like as if); it was your feeble mewing about arrogance and BS (as if you didn’t know).
phranctoast
Enlighten us.
Which software manufacturers do not end up having to release patches?
Which software manufacturers make softwares anything close to the utility and ubiquity of the Microsoft OSs that would even require their attention to security in the same manner?
Carping about Microsoft responding to an ever evolving security environment seems to me to be pretty laughable.
I’m not saying there are no instances where they could not have done better and I am not saying their products are perfect but generally no-one has to meet the demands they do as far as OSs go.
They must be doing something right because despite the competiton snapping away they remain head and shoulders above the rest.
April 21st, 2009
@dwh,
“SquareTrade puts the defect rate of the Xbox 360 at 16.4 percent… these numbers aren’t surprising in the world of consumer electronics… as an industry, consumer electronic failure rates over 3 years commonly exceed 15 percent… Repair rates for 3-4 year old products: 43% for laptops, 31% for desktops, 15% for all consumer electronics…”
arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2008/02/xbox-360-failure-rates-worse-than-most-consumer-electornics.ars
“Abernethy went on to note that while the company didn’t track the different variations of the 360, he “would estimate most if not all were the original motherboard.”
“the possibility exists that the randomness factor could be skewed, leaning towards heavy system users who are more likely to overheat their 360s.”
1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3166259
April 21st, 2009
@jo,
“we don’t pay for online, and guess what? $100 more for a MUCH BETTER built system” -Silver members don’t either, and if you are a heavy online multiplayer, you can get it for about $3/mo, big deal. PS3’s life has yet to reach it’s fourth year, and original mobo problems were a price MS has paid dearly for since with extended warranties and new designs. Launching a year early with that design still paid off for them in the long run, and the majority, like me, still have their original launch systems working fine.
“This is just stupid, there are bundles/deals everywhere” -We’re talking about base models/lowest price points.
“ROLF, so you’d rather PAY 150+ for wireless and $200 more for BR?” – I do not need or want wireless but could hook it up with my existing router if the need arose. I do not need or want BR but could get a sony player at this time for $150 or $99 by Christmas. 1080p HD downloads or rentals work fine, are more convenient, and will last longer.
“if you write off a game for not having tropies” – I never wrote off games for not having trophies, it is simply an added factor that 360 owners enjoy achievements across all their games vice a small fraction.
The point in mentioning PS2 bc being taken out yet mostly likely having the games you already own being sold on PSN or Blu-ray was to highlight that PS2 games can be played on PS3, but they would rather charge you for them than simply put the capability back in. This has yet to be put into practice, and I hope it doesn’t, but the future does not look bright when they start discussing PS2 games you already own but cannot play on PS3 unless you buy blu-ray discs. If they put PS2 bc back in before this practice then I have no problem with it.
April 21st, 2009
I was actually being sarcastic towards Ivan. I haven’t had 9 consoles sent away. If that happened I think I would just give up and play with a rock.
April 21st, 2009
“drive noise.”
Psshhh… I play GTA 4 for 5 minutes and my PS3 sounds like a fuckin leaf blower. MS adding HDD installs also removes the drive noise.
April 21st, 2009
so glad i stayed out of this one
April 21st, 2009
Right on, SW.
How silent/loud is the 360 when just watching video from the hard drive? The fans in my PS3 start kicking off pretty easily even just watching videos from the HDD.
April 21st, 2009
mmm…. HOME SUCKS!
April 21st, 2009
It hums like an angel, lock_down.
April 21st, 2009
CON:
“I was actually being sarcastic towards Ivan. I haven’t had 9 consoles sent away. If that happened I think I would just give up and play with a rock.”
How much more heavily do you have to lay it on and still get takers for the ride?
I even hinted myself that you were just playing out the rope but no, some anecdote form who knows where and sufddenly it’s treated as “proof”
(from “one of my own”, no less)
Besides Arsenal taking L’pool to yet another draw that was the funniest thing I saw tonight.
I must get out more.
April 21st, 2009
I knew Happy would be watching the footy…
Arsenal are definitely gonna give you a game and a half in the semi’s…I think I can hear Fergie telling Rio not to let Asharvin out of sight…
April 21st, 2009
liverpool – Gerrard = Arsenal – Gallas, Ade, V.Persie, there goal keeper and rosiksy…
yeah liverpool ganna win the title now………….
April 22nd, 2009
4 – 4 was a bit of a mad result, cracking game though.
That Arshavin (is it now the rule at Arsenal you have to have Ars in your name) is a little bit special on his day, hmm?
Mind you, if the Arsenal defense is going to go AWOL like that and if Man Utd’s defense is returning to it’s proper ways (now Ferdinand is back) then i can see a cracking game happening but not one where we lose. Hopefully.
I’m not one for counting chickens (that’s a bit silly even with 2 full games in hand) but it’s all moved back in Man Utd’s favour.
Still, it’s great when it goes to the wire.
Naturally I hope Man Utd win it but not too many of us want to see 2000/01 rerun where it was all over by the end of April, not even us Man Utd fans.
(Although that was a very impressive year).
Portsmouth tomorrow night.
They’re scrapping to stay up, could be a nail-biter.
April 22nd, 2009
has anyone hear that a guy from blizzard website talk to ms about a new console in development??????
April 22nd, 2009
im a city fan… and my brother is the biggest dickhead on the planet and he goes for liverpool… im some how hoping that chelsea get up just to stop my mates who r band wagon jumpers *cough utd* fans and also so my brother doesn’t run round like a flaming idiot all day
April 22nd, 2009
fuck you all… christiano ronaldo is the best… yeah… I said it…
thanks carl… OK PEOPLE!! NEW FACT IS 15%!!!
update your flame baits people… its official…
April 22nd, 2009
…ur only saying that cause on fifa all u do is pump the ball to him…
April 22nd, 2009
kevo
Didn’t we have that here?
I thought the consensus was it was just the sort of normal chats they all do, not really related to anything concrete?
bigmickyd
Yeah well, them and Londoner Man Utd fans eh?
Personally I’m old enough to have gone through the lean years – including relagation to the old 2nd Div, now the Championship…..wtf was all that renaming about? I could kind of understand the rebranding of the 1sr Div/Premier League but now Divs 3 & 4 are 1 & 2?
Like it makes a difference?
darkwhitehair
So long as you recall that that stat’s supposedly based on the original SKU dwh.
April 22nd, 2009
I just love how jojo took that one and ran with it con, complete with descriptions of sexual assault, all caps, repetition, and exclamation points… hilarious.
April 22nd, 2009
well happy… original sku or not… its not like the problems have gone away… because not all the 360 owners own a jasper… and we dont know whether jasper is fault proof or not…
so for now… we have nothing… cept 15%…
April 22nd, 2009
darkwhitehair:
“well happy… original sku or not… its not like the problems have gone away… because not all the 360 owners own a jasper”
True but by now the majority must own the Zephyr, the Opus or the Falcon SKU.
Jasper is of course the most recent but Xenon was only sold from May 2005 – jul 2007
April 22nd, 2009
I have a Jasper and the old school Xbox 360 model too. I got E74 error already but it was fix and flashed by ioffer member $70.
April 22nd, 2009
Ivan
Do you seriously expect anyone to believe a word you have to say about the Xbox?
April 22nd, 2009
Happyhockum:
Yes…
April 22nd, 2009
You might get the E74 error if… you have a hacked 360.
April 22nd, 2009
yeah it confused the hell out of me when i started following… at that point city had just come back up from league one (tier 3) into the championship (tier 2)
been a rollercoster ride all these years… and these last 2 seasons have really capped it off…
2 billion air take overs, 18 new plays… can’t tell you how many millions (seeing as people claim we spent over 100mill this season… but when you add the figures up… its about 80mill)
mate im from sydney… and when i used to walk around with a barton jersey people used to come up and ask who the …? now i sit there in a robinho jersey and people go im not a real fan… u get up between the hours of 2am-4am to watch a football match… every weekend… and 3:30am every so often on a wed/thurs morning
April 22nd, 2009
CarlB:
I got the E74 before i got my Xbox 360 hacked.
April 22nd, 2009
That’s dedication mick, I just record it with IQ.
April 22nd, 2009
i would do that sept most of the time we are the active game and you cant record active stuff… only the main one… so i have to get up and watch it… or wait three days until they show a replay… by which time ive already read a match review and feel bad if we had a good game and i didnt get to watch it
April 23rd, 2009
ah yeah, the active stuff can’t be recorded. i am glad the rugby league is rarely ‘viewer’s choice’ anymore on saturdays for that reason.
April 23rd, 2009
they show the 2 saturday games one after the other anyone… that don’t do that with the 5 E.P.L games on at once… though i know id record that as a block
April 23rd, 2009
I wish people would do some actual investigative journalism and find out what the hell is going on with all these hardware issues…
instead we are left with internet rumors and people talking about how their launch xbox is still running…
I DONT KNOW WHO TO BELIEVE!
April 23rd, 2009
Congratulations Ivan, you are part of the 16%… and Microsoft is still taking care of you with free repairs for three years… not bad.
April 23rd, 2009
bah, man up and watch all 5 at once! They have that screen with all the matches, don’t they?
April 23rd, 2009
CarlB:
“You might get the E74 error if… you have a hacked 360.”
Yeah, like I said, my understanding is that E74 is a pretty broad kind of ‘label’.
But I’m sure it goes without saying that if you f*ck about with your Xbox I can’t see them honouring any warranty.
bigmickyd & harry sachz
It’s a bit of a pi$$er here in the UK too, on most nights you have to wait until 10pm to see the game.
Even by paying (a pretty heafty sub) the satellite TV doesn’t show every game live.
Sometimes you just have to go find a web-cast stream.
Thank God for tech!
April 23rd, 2009
yes, yes, i understand that CON fed us the lie of him returning 9 consoles…i ran with it only because its not out of the realm of possibility, especially since my brother is now on his 4th….nine doesn’t seem like that much more….
Anywhoo, sorry 5% is the CE industry standard NOT 15%, and the 360s original RROD was 33%.
“However, as an industry, consumer electronic failure rates over 3 years commonly exceed 15 percent.” 15% OVER 3 years…sadly the original batch of 360s didn’t last even 1 year…or even a month!!! Nintys and Sonys warranty is 3% for 90days….imagine if it was a 3 year warranty, thats 1% defect rate…
Like others, we have read the failure rate for Xbox is 30 percent or higher. We haven’t seen that yet, but it is clearly plausible that this 16 percent failure rate we see will increase with claims over time.” ”
If you read the WHOLE article you can read the following:
“Compared with those numbers the Xbox 360 rates may not sound too terrible, but when you consider that this data looks at products in their THIRD to FOURTH year of use, and the Xbox 360 has only been available since November of 2005, things begin to look a little less rosy.
To add further point to what i said:
” When I asked Abernethy if this was a product of the systems simply being older, he said that wasn’t the case. “Our customers are buying warranties within 30 days of purchase,” he told Ars. “When these systems fail, they tend to fail quickly.”
the 360 failed DAYS, after purchasing….33% defect rate it is, which sucks ass..
April 23rd, 2009
jojo29
Man up ffs.
You “ran” with it cos you wanted to believe it.
“the 360s original RROD was 33%.”
Prove it. Prove it with actual proof and not just some anecdote about shop returns (which is where the original 30% clain came from).
I dare you.
…..and while you’re at it go ahead and prove the fail rates on the Falcon & Jasper boards seeing as you want to portray this fail rate as current.
I double dare you.
Fanboy.
April 23rd, 2009
You want proof? Theres one problem with that fanboy; I can link all the links i can, but being a fanboy, who resorts to namecalling, which means you have nothing better to contribute to the debate because your stumped, you will probably just discredit them regardless.
Its already been “proven” that the 360 has/had a 33% defect rate. I pointed that out in the article. A normal 3-4 year warranty has CE products defect at the 3 year range. THAT is where the the 16% comes in.
The 360 on the other hand is FAILING BEFORE the 3 year mark, which would bring up the percentage….If you can’t see this, theres no bother to go on further, your just a BLIND fanboy.
I am a fanboy, but i am not blind like yourself.
Also, NO ONE said that the current fail rate of your almighty “jasper and falcon cores” are that high. Where in my post did i say “the JASPER and FALCON cores failure rates are…”
Thats right NO WHERE. BUT, given that the E74 are happening NOW, EVEN WHILE there are jasper and falcon units out, one can easily conclude that a % of them ARE included.
I TRIPLE DOG DARE YOU to find those out, its NOT my system to defend, its YOURS, and good luck Blind Fanboy
April 23rd, 2009
jojo29
That’s a long heap of nothing adding up to you got nothing but your ridiculous fanboy rantings.
April 23rd, 2009
When i mean i am a fanboy, but i am not blind, i am NOT blind to these facts about Sony:
-Sony needs to actually market their system/games
-Sonys prior upper management, needs to STFU about having a second job and all that.
-Sony’s arrogant PR like above needs to go away
To name just a few, that even i have brought up in my previous posts….you on the other hand, are just blind and can see no wrong with MS, even though they RAPE their customers ( as for you attacking my use of the word “rape’, go ahead and focus on that instead of the actual topic at hand, nice try in trying to derail the topic, probably because you have nothing left and are stumped
)
by releasing such a piss poor system, and then AFTER getting caught trying to deny those reports, “give” you a 3 year warranty, if they could have gotten away with it, they would have. That is the BOTTOM LINE FACT: They released a piss of shit system, THEN they LIED about it. THEY HAD NO CHOICE BUT to up the warranty to cover that<—this is why no credit is given on the “industry leading” warranty, they HAD to do it…
Anywhoo, continue being a Blind Fanboy.
April 23rd, 2009
Happyhockum
thats what i thought, you can’t bring the proof defend your own system…your are done and owned sir
lol i am done with you
April 23rd, 2009
jojo – please post ANY proof ms denied reports of malfunctioning systems. this is more fanboy drivel…..
i think you confused them with sony who lied, got sued, and lost… no such thing happened with MS….
yes..please continue on your blind fanboy rantings… they’re very entertaining. then again, it’s alway interesting to see how much ignorance there is in the world of gaming….
April 23rd, 2009
jojo29
I didn’t “attack” you for using the word ‘rape’ I ridiculed you for it cos it’s just so pathetic & wrong. There is a difference.
I’m not trying to “derail” anything either, I’m just trying to point out that when you to speak like a deluded 13yr old gangsta wannabe f*ckwit few will take a word you have to say seriously.
But it’s your choice what you prefer to go with.
You seem very angry about a console you hate.
In fact you seem to be very emotive about game consoles full stop.
Wise up matey. They’re just CE goods.
The real bottom line (unlike your laughable characterisation of it) is that Microsoft took a while assessing the true situation with their Xbox 360.
Anyone who imagines they wouldn’t is deluded.
Unlike a certain other CE corp you seem to have fallen hard for they did not just continue to stone-wall the complaints.
They did in fact introduce an industry leading warranty.
In tandam with this they refined the original design and fixed the problem.
Once another problem came to light they acted quickly and included that into the warranty.
Obviously in your sad woirld a calm assessment of the facts is something only someone biased would do.
So, off you go.
Wind yourself up even more with your ludicrous “love” and “hate” for CE products.
April 23rd, 2009
Falcon failure rate is over 10%
and here you go
long story short: your Jasper/Falcon units are NOT the end all be all of problems…It netted a mer 12% drop in heat ROFL, there goes your proof….If its only 12% more efficient, i highly doubt that RROD is 100% gone, in fact i bet with these changes it dropped down to 15%-20%…i found my proof wheres YOURS…still waiting on you blind fanboy ….
The Falcon to Jasper transition isn’t quite as dramatic unfortunately. I ran five power tests, I looked at power consumption at the NXE dashboard at idle, power consumption at the main menu of Rockband 2, Halo 3 and Gears of War 2, and finally if you don’t own any of these games but want a comparison point I looked at power consumption of the Xbox 360 while running the BioShock demo (at the very start of the demo when you find yourself in the water surrounded by fire). Power consumption during actual gameplay doesn’t go up much, if at all, compared to the start screens for these games – the main menu screens are all rendered in 3D and are apparently just as stressful as the games themselves, plus they’re a very consistent way of measuring power consumption.
I used a Watts-Up meter which the Xbox 360 plugged into, so what we’re looking at here is total system power consumption.
Xbox 360 Revision System Off Idle Halo 3 Rockband 2 Gears of War 2 BioShock Demo
Xenon 2.3W 155.7W 177.8W 167.7W 177.1W 172W
Falcon 2.8W 101.4W 121.2W 112.8W 121.5W 115.5W
Jasper 2.0W 93.7W 105.9W 101.0W 105.9W 98.1W
Overall you’re looking at a 12% reduction in total system power under load and under 8% at idle, definitely not the ~30 – 35% drop we saw with the Xenon to Falcon transition, but not insignificant either. Remember that the smaller your transistors get, the more leakage current becomes a problem; while your transistors use less power, they also tend to use more power when they are in a logical off state than they should. There have also been a number of advancements in architecting for low power designs over the past couple of years that Microsoft hasn’t taken advantage of as they would require a redesign of the 360’s CPU/GPU. Microsoft is in full blown cost savings mode with the Xbox 360, the only things that will be done to that console before it dies are things to improve the Xbox division’s bottom line.
April 23rd, 2009
Happyhockum
My point exactly..you try and ridicule me, emphasis on try, instead of addressing the topic at hand, like you are now. Now, i have not fallen hard for a certain company, i don’t defend it when they do stupid things, you on the other hand do, and you are the one who has fallen for them so hard, that you accept anything they will do to you or their consumers.
Again, i am waiting on proof to show otherwise, i even posted an article that shows that the jasper/falcon units are a mere 12% improvement, even after 3 years of being out on the market, so NO, they STILL have NOT addressed the issue…the irony here is i am DEFENDING the xbox 360 fanbase from this type of abuse…
I didn’t defend it when Sony messed up with their PS2…but on the “bright” side, at LEAST it was within industry standard of 5%…which i STILL think is TOO HIGH…
Also, did you also know that in those same Jasper/Falcon units you so dearly hold on a pedestal, they use CHEAP cables and other cheaply made parts? Cheaper than the components that made up the original RROD 360? Yeah, thats really taking care of their consumer.
And in case your don’t know what i mean:
“Cheap” in the sense of less quality, in pricing.
Again, instead of attacking/ridiculing my method of posting, how about you focus on the topic you and me are discussing, which you have yet to address at all.
Done with the blind fanboy
April 23rd, 2009
Whoops forgot the link, here you go:
http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3472&p=5
April 23rd, 2009
To add insult to injury and my favorite line:
“And once again, to those of you with Jaspers: congrats, AFTER 3 years you MAY have just bought an Xbox 360 that won’t die. ”
Mind you, this was BEFORE the recently uncovered E74 errors lol…er not really funny for people who’s systems have died sorry..
April 23rd, 2009
jojo29
Nice sourcing, not.
BTW did you actually read what you quoted or were you too bust drooling over what you dreamed were ‘killer facts’?
It has lines like “i highly doubt that RROD is 100% gone”.
In case you have a hard time recognising it that’s just someone’s opinion, not a fact.
It also says things like
“Falcon to Jasper transition isn’t quite as dramatic unfortunately”
and then goes on to list power consumption rates.
He’s just talking about energy consumption there, nothing more.
Looks like a laughably selective & dishonest bit of editing there.
If you recall I recently posted that the transition to Jasper from Falcon was most likely more of a manufacturing cost reduction exercise for Microsoft.
Falcon did all the hard work curing the problems (the CPU went to 65nm but unnoticed by some the GPU also shrank from 90nm to 80nm, Jasper takes this further to 65nm but nevertheless the die shrink happened first with Falcon, ditto the RAM shrink to 80nm).
You want to complain that I ridiculed you?
Well then stop posting worthless things like this up or talking like a moron that make it too easy.
April 23rd, 2009
As for the Xbox breakdown rates?
You keep making the claims without any serious basis so it’s up to youy to prove them.
April 23rd, 2009
“jojo – please post ANY proof ms denied reports of malfunctioning systems. this is more fanboy drivel…..
i think you confused them with sony who lied, got sued, and lost… no such thing happened with MS….
yes..please continue on your blind fanboy rantings… they’re very entertaining. then again, it’s alway interesting to see how much ignorance there is in the world of gaming….”
ttp://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=22776
ttp://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2007/may/31/guardianweeklytechnologysection
I believe there was a book written over it.
ttp://www.amazon.com/Xbox-360-Uncloaked-Microsofts-Next-Generation/dp/0977784215/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240504641&sr=1-3
I love it when you go on your “blind fanboy” rant just to be proven that you are a blind fanboy yourself.
enjoy the links
April 23rd, 2009
Lets just all disagree that M$ continually puts a defective console on the market and xbots will always defend it regardless. They knew about the 86% failure ratio. That’s criminal.
gamedaily.com/articles/news/report-xbox-360-failure-rate-was-as-high-as-68/?biz=1
April 23rd, 2009
68% that is….
April 23rd, 2009
Happyhockum
again you prove you are just another fanboy and nothing more.
I posted the link from a VERY reliable website; Anandtech.com
And yet you dismiss their claims…people who ATI/AMD/INTEL/NVIDIA go to get their benchmark tests out….
Not surprising, i stated you would just dismiss those facts. Also, energy saving DOES affect a consoles life, lower energy = lower HEAT, which was the main factor in the reason the 360 keeps dying….this proves my point your just another dumb fanboy, you have the evidence, yet you dismiss it, i am done schooling you.
@Barnabe Jones.
http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/report-xbox-360-failure-rate-was-as-high-as-68/?biz=1
Thanks for yet even more “proof” that Happy will just dismiss, again i am done with that clown, he has yet to provide proof to the contrary and until he does, its just blind fanboy spin is all
April 23rd, 2009
You see?
You just can’t help yourself can you Barnabee?
Or is it that you can’t read properly?
the actual (entire) quote is
“the question of hardware reliability was brought up back in August 2005, way before the 360’s launch in November.
Microsoft knew there was a major problem and the company marched right ahead anyway in order to get to market a year ahead of the competition.
Incredibly, 68 out of every 100 Xbox 360s made by Microsoft’s Chinese manufacturing partners were not working properly. ”
So it’s quite clear that the 68% number comes from Chinese pre-production units.
Still, what’s another epic fail in the PS3 drone’s attempts to back up their over-blown and ludicrous 30% claims?
April 23rd, 2009
YAY!
Kev is on the road to reform people! Take a look:
“it’s always interesting to see how much ignorance there is in the world of gaming….”
See how he didn’t specifically target the PS3 crowd?! I am SO SO SO proud of him right now.
Oh and happy..
“They did in fact introduce an industry leading limited warranty.” – Corrected.
And for someone who really doesn’t care because ‘its a CE product’ you’ve replied 23 times in this thread alone (not including the 2 for footy and 1 that was a smiley face). That has to be some kind of record, especially for someone who really doesn’t care… Even Jojo, who does care isn’t able to match you.
April 23rd, 2009
Thank you SW
Yes i do care, i care for the gamers and owners of CE products ( Sony or MS ) that they get a QUALITY piece of equipment, out the door
April 23rd, 2009
@jo,
“Anywhoo, sorry 5% is the CE industry standard NOT 15%, and the 360s original RROD was 33%.”
Sorry broheem, nobody as yet has produced any link to another official report, so 15% for all CE products in their 3rd or 4th year stands. 360 is going into it’s fourth year. 16.4% is the estimated fail rate as of more than one year ago and it was estimated that most if not all problems were with the original motherboard. Bottom line? Microsoft still covers it.
April 23rd, 2009
no Carlb, yes 15% is the industry standard for a product in its ACTUAL 3rd or 4th YEAR. Read it again, its ACTUAL 3rd to 4th YEAR.
The problem is, MS console is breaking even before ONE MONTH has passed. Now, this bracket of product, which is a standard 30-90 day warranty, the failure rate is supposed to be less than 5%, and THAT is the industry standard. The Wii and PS3 MEET this industry standard, and have if they had a 3 year warranty their failure rate would be around 1%.
Now, the 360 pre RROD warranty was a standard 30-90 day warranty, its failure rate was WAY above the industry standard of 5%. It was a whopping 33%. Look around for proof of this, im tired of linking.
Now, MS extended their warranty to 3-4 year range, which i guess is great, BUT, the fact remains, they still have over industry standard failure rates, as said in that article. The point is, the industry standard of 16% is for products that ARE on their ACTUAL 3-4 year…the 360 doesnt even reach 1 month for a high percentage of people….
April 23rd, 2009
SW
“And for someone who really doesn’t care because ‘its a CE product’ ”
I never said that.
There’s a world of difference between merely caring or being interested enough to comment and the laughably overdone emotive nonsense some trot out here regularly.
You won’t find me bashing out capitalised sentences with 2 dozen exclaimation marks scattered throughout.
jojo29
You’ve proved nothing.
You didn’t even provide the link that last screed.
Which you shamelessly misquoted (or perhaps you just failed to understand it, as you attempted to use it to make a completely unrelated point not covered in the text).
“the 360 doesnt even reach 1 month for a high percentage of people…”
There you go again.
OK prove it.
Prove that and show that it’s not just mainly the early Xbox models which are effected but also a high % Xboxes under 4mths old that are effected.
You’re talking fact-free fanboy cr@p and you know it.
April 23rd, 2009
For the record:
gamesindustry.biz/articles/microsoft-denies-systematic-issues-with-defective-consoles
That’s just one link. I found many others.
-Arvis
April 23rd, 2009
What is that supposed to prove Arvis?
There are no verified numbers in that link, nothing.
April 23rd, 2009
Happyhockum
You are all talk there buddy, you have yet to address that which i have asked of you. You already proved my point though, even when people post endless links, and even when i explain what the links mean to you, you deny them like a 8 year old and ask “why” or “why this, prove it”
So i will in return ask you, Why don’t you provide the data neccessary? Why don’t YOU provide links to prove us wrong? Why don’t you?
It’s easy for us all to see and understand why Happy: Because you can’t, and because you wrong again
Still waiting for my links from you Happy
April 23rd, 2009
I think he may have been replying to Kev.
“jojo – please post ANY proof ms denied reports of malfunctioning systems. this is more fanboy drivel…..”
April 23rd, 2009
SW
Fair enough.
I do find all that ‘denial’ stuff odd.
I don’t know of any product (save with the exception of a safety related recall like in the car/motorbike business) that would ever have a producer instantly admit to a problem before they have assessed it.
Of course bland non-denial or admission statements is all you can dredge up.
That’s business.
I just don’t see what people (can reasonably) expect.
Nevertheless Microsoft did take note of the problem (and a subsequent one that arose) and they gave every Xbox owner a 3yr warranty.
That stands in stark contrast to Sony’s behaviour over the PS2 read error problem which went to a class action (and which they still stone-walled right to the end) or for that matter their criminal behaviour with deliberately giving people a root kit (or, more accurately, a virus with back door & phone home) in their selfish commercial interest.
April 23rd, 2009
the stark contrast that exist happy, is that the ps2 was never as nearly as unreliable as the 360 was/is.
fyi, MS is being sued in a class action suit for RROD.
you should really give it up on trying to make Sony out like some evil empire in comparison to M$.
for every one negative thing Sony did, several can be sited on M$’s behalf.
I’d say stop while you’re ahead but that was never the case.
April 23rd, 2009
@jojo,
“it was a whopping 33%. Look around for proof of this, im tired of linking.”
No, it was 16.4% and how could you be tired of linking? You haven’t even done it once here while you were spewing opinion as if it was fact. Maybe you meant tired of surfing/searching for something to prove anything that you have said here?
April 23rd, 2009
Also, hasn’t it already been touted here about how Microsoft has lost massive sums of money due to a huge population hacking 360’s? Might this not have something to do with the failure rate as well?
Regardless, here is our common ground: The 360 has a higher failure rate than PS3 or Wii. Microsoft covers it.
April 23rd, 2009
phranctoast
“MS is being sued in a class action suit for RROD”
Oh get off of it phranctoast.
Surely even you know by now that after the warranty and refunds the only reason why anyone is pursuing this
(if it ever gets that far…….before it comes before a judge & the court throws it out as a frivolous case)
is purely for politics.
The day they get a judgement against them you can say they had a class action succeed against them, not before.
(and as I said once before it’s not me that claims one corp stands whiter than white compared to the other, they are as far as I am concerned little different in terms of who’s on the consumer’s side.
Both have pulled sh*tty anti-competitive stunts on the consumer – but at least with Microsoft I kind of expect it (as far as them favouring their own products etc etc goes).
I can honestly say I’ve yet to hear of a Microsoft stunt to match the Sony rootkit (corporate virus).
Or how their products – without you being asked or agreeing – attempt to change over your PC stuff when you install one of their products.
April 23rd, 2009
CarlB
Fair enough. The 360 has a higher failure rate than PS3 or Wii. Microsoft covers it.
We can leave it at that between you and me
April 23rd, 2009
SW, 23 posts inst a record… unless im mistake but i think my 147 a few months ago still stands as the record for both max posts by one person and also as max overall post in a thread (302 i think it was)
April 23rd, 2009
Google “33% failure rate xbox360″ gets 42,600 hits. I am not going to put 42,600 links on here to satisfy the xbots. Carl gives us ONE link/source for his % and claims it as fact.
At the end of the day, no one knows exactly what the % rate actually is, but regardless – if it’s 16% or 33%, both those figures are disgraceful.
Quote: “Also, hasn’t it already been touted here about how Microsoft has lost massive sums of money due to a huge population hacking 360’s? Might this not have something to do with the failure rate as well?”
Something tells me Carl that ms would not accept a hacked 360 for RROD, nor would they count it in the stats even if they received a hacked 360 for repair.
April 23rd, 2009
“Of course bland non-denial or admission statements is all you can dredge up.
That’s business.”
Don’t really understand that one…
He wasn’t ‘dredging up’ anything to insult MS or the 360, but simply to point it out to Kev (Who probably will just call him a fanboy, may not even reply to this thread ever again, or possibly won’t acknowledge the post. Good luck with that Arvis…), thats all.
April 23rd, 2009
@Mick, How about 23 ’serious’ posts not aimed at bumping the total number posted…
Better? hehe
April 24th, 2009
as long as i still have my record SW, all is good
April 24th, 2009
“Google “33% failure rate xbox360″ gets 42,600 hits”
Yes Spidey, obviously that is the best you can do is google hits… as if the amount of hits things get on the internet proves anything besides popularity.
Google “Sony sucks” gets 3,700,000 hits
Google “Sony PS3 error” gets 333,000 hits
Google “40% failure rate PS3″ gets 16,300 hits
But if you really want to argue based on Google hits, fine. Google “360 16.4% failure” and you get 206,000 hits, which is almost 5 times as many as the example you provided.
But “at the end of the day” 16.4% is higher than PS3 or Wii and Microsoft covers it, as I said above.
“Something tells me Carl that ms would not accept a hacked 360 for RROD”
Exactly Spidey, which is why they try and return it to retailers instead, which is where the 33% guesstimate stemmed from in the first place.
“no one knows exactly what the % rate actually is” including you or I. The best we can do is not try to believe Google hits alone that support our opinion and get the most authoritative reports we can. As far as I can tell, none were included in the most relevant results provided for your search criteria, but they were included for mine.
April 24th, 2009
Sorry Carl, Google is a “source of choice” for the xbots here (ps3 fanboys too). I am just using their logic.
Quote: “Exactly Spidey, which is why they try and return it to retailers instead, which is where the 33% guesstimate stemmed from in the first place.”
You know that for a fact Carl?? Besides if you think that hacked machines are counted in the failure figure, the same can be said for nintendo and ps units. The figures from them still don’t get anywhere near 360.
That was a nice counter move in regard to the google search, but I retort….. I used the exact wording of your search “360 16.4% failure” and just changed the 16.4% to 33% (to have a fair search comparison) guess how many hits I got ??
4,830,000 !! Thats 23 times the example you provided and my search wording mirrored yours.
April 24th, 2009
Additionally –
xbox sucks gets 500k hits
xbox 360 failure gets 2 million 450k
Interestingly xbox 360 is great and ps3 is great both poll 44million …… how good is that ??!!
April 24th, 2009
“Sorry Carl, Google is a “source of choice” for the xbots here (ps3 fanboys too). I am just using their logic.”
You might be a fanboy if… you use and are enthusiastic about the “logic” of how many hits a phrase gets on Google to support a statement for or against a console as the sole basis for your position“no one knows exactly what the % rate actually is” including you or I.. Actually, this is not logic at all.
“You know that for a fact Carl??”
No, I do not Spidey, which is why I sincerely emphasized your earlier statement, “no one knows exactly what the % rate actually is” and added, “including you or I.”
“4,830,000 !!” Must be a popular search term for fanboys. That popularized fiction gets more hits on the internet than truth would is not very surprising at all. “Unicorns” gets 21,400,000.
Again, take the top 3 relevant returns from each search and see if there is any authoritative reports, and you will find only one of the two percentage searches meets that criteria: %16.4. Does this mean it is necessarily fact? No. Is there a good possibility that it could be lower than the year old report stated by now? Yes. Does the 360 still most likely have a higher failure rate than PS3? Yes. Does Microsoft still cover it? Yes.
To even out your popularity searches there -
playstation sucks gets 1,830,000 hits
PS3 failure gets 2,870,000 hits
wii sucks gets 3,100,000 hits
Wii failure gets 1,090,000 hits
April 24th, 2009
Sorry for the mistake. If you take ““no one knows exactly what the % rate actually is” including you or I.” (it should have been in the fourth paragraph only) out of the second paragraph it reads correctly.
April 24th, 2009
Carl did you think for a second I was actually serious about stats gained from Google …… You arguing a stale point ??!!
I am agreeing and have never seriously used google searches as proof of a point. Other users here have used it seriously to prove points, I like to have a little fun with it at their expense. Actually if I remember correctly I have used the same silly searches on a certain Kev that frequents here. I got just as much of a laugh with that one as I have here
Seriously, I will say (and yes, I am a fan of the 360) that the failure rate of the 360 is (was) very bad and beyond that of it’s competitors. You are (and rightfully so) going to fight an uphill battle trying to convince people that it wasn’t.
April 24th, 2009
“I like to have a little fun with it”
I agree and did the same. It is the “unicorn” of fanboy fact-finding.
“Seriously, I will say (and yes, I am a fan of the 360) that the failure rate of the 360 is (was) very bad and beyond that of it’s competitors. You are (and rightfully so) going to fight an uphill battle trying to convince people that it wasn’t.”
Spidey, repeated here alone 3 times by me, “The 360 has a higher failure rate than PS3 or Wii. Microsoft covers it.” Did you mean downhill battle to convince people that it is?
April 24th, 2009
Wow, what happened here?
April 24th, 2009
“acted so quickly to extend their (excellent) warranty”
lol at the excellent part.
April 24th, 2009
RRoD/E74 – microsoft’s testament to how much they don’t care about their consumers. To be honest, anyone who defends microsoft’s business aren’t worth the spit.
April 24th, 2009
SW,
“He wasn’t ‘dredging up’ anything to insult MS or the 360, but simply to point it out to Kev (Who probably will just call him a fanboy, may not even reply to this thread ever again, or possibly won’t acknowledge the post. Good luck with that Arvis…), thats all.”
Thanks, you nailed it, as usual. After I posted I figured that I needed some clarification, but was too lazy to post again.
-Arvis
April 24th, 2009
Arvis,
@Kev or a quote may have helped avoid confusion, but I am not perfect by any means either.
“please post ANY proof ms denied reports of malfunctioning systems”
From what I can tell in the linked article you provided and similar, to be fair, there is no proof that Microsoft “denied” reports of malfunctioning systems.
April 24th, 2009
sigh… Arvis… you slick son of a bitch…
you wont play street fighter turbo hd with me… but you will slum it up here in blorge? goddamn you pelvis… damn you to the deep bowels of dante’s inferno…
also… psst… I heard that Marvel VS Capcom 2 may come to the PSN.. youre good for that right?
April 24th, 2009
edge-online.com/magazine/the-making-of-playstation
this is the kind of journalism I want done by video game journalists… a fascinating read for gamers everywhere…
April 24th, 2009
@Carl
Quote: “From what I can tell in the linked article you provided and similar, to be fair, there is no proof that Microsoft “denied” reports of malfunctioning systems.”
Yeah but saying nothing and doing nothing can also be perceived as denial …… lol
April 25th, 2009
“saying nothing and doing nothing can also be perceived as denial”
Yes, even in this interview he said they were wishing they could have done things differently at launch with their hardware and that they were responding to each customer complaint… but these type of quotes usually get buried or don’t make it to the other sites, because that news doesn’t sell as much.
I see it constantly though, one news source does an interview then a ton of sites take 1-3 sentences of quotes out of the entire interview and then proceed to put words into the mouth of the interviewee and the company.
Op-eds are fine, but instead article title’s that are clearly misleading such as, “Microsoft Denies claims of 360 failure rate” are then followed up with more of the same and just lead to confusion and misperception. Unfortunately this is usually the case with little tidbits like this.
April 25th, 2009
Happens everywhere, that’s the media.