Exposed: Natal Milo smoke and mirrors by Peter Molyneux
Project Natal’s Milo was the star of Microsoft’s E3 press conference this year. The Milo demo shown via a video by Peter Molyneux surprised the audience and many gamers around the globe by the promise of what the technology could offer. Molyneux did bring a select number of journalists to demo Milo and it was found to be mostly smoke and mirrors.
I commented the other day that I was extremely impressed with the Milo project in comparison to the other basic motion detection demos the old vision cam was capable of. However, I also commented that I wasn’t sold on the voice recognition technology as my expensive Lexus Navigation system can’t even recognize what I am telling it to find half the time.
Project Natel’s Milo is what sparked the imagination of many around the globe and those at attendance at the E3 conference. The video shown by Peter Molyneux of the Milo demo was presented to indicate that the Natal project was capable of advanced AI and voice recognition. However, attendees who demoed Milo behind curtain doors were not as impressed after finding out that there was some smoke and mirrors involved.
Is Pinocchio a puppet or a real boy?
Spike’s VP of Content and editor-in-chief of Gamestrailers, Shane Satterfield, indicated recently along with his peers that there was a bit of deception with Milo behind the scenes after demoing it. He stated that the select few to demo Milo live behind closed doors were instructed by Microsoft to follow exactly what was shown in the video. Satterfield also stated that there definitely is someone “controlling” (influencing) Milo behind the scenes.
He states:
All I’m going to say about Milo is that its not legit.There were a lot of smoke and mirrors going on there, not the case with the ball demo [Ricochet] and the other stuff but with Milo there was definitely a little bit of deception going on.
Satterfield also revealed that the assumed voice recognition shown in the demonstration video for Milo was a little misleading. He indicates that Peter Molyneux told him that Milo does not actually recognize the player’s voice but reacts to the tone of your voice. He also further explains that Milo says rudimentary open ended statements that will fit into whatever you say.
Apparently, Natel is not capable of voice recognition currently but in theory only. However, this does go back to what I was stating originally – is Natal’s technology or application groundbreaking?
I am not saying that the new Natal cam is not better than the old Vision cam as the depth and motion detection is superior as well as a dedicated mic that is more sensitive to picking up sounds despite distance.
I believe the idea and its application is what could be revolutionary. The technology itself is not all that impressive when you consider the fact cams like the Xbox Live Vision Cam or the PS3 EyeToy is capable of motion, depth and sound recognition through the built in microphone. The software just needs to be developed to match the appropriate application.
I do want to say that I really do respect Peter Molyneux as I think that he is a visionary but at times is restricted to the technology we have available today. However, I do believe people like him will eventually help propel the gaming industry to new planes. It will be interesting to see what kind of progress Moleyneux makes with the Milo project as time goes by.
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74 Responses to “Exposed: Natal Milo smoke and mirrors by Peter Molyneux”
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June 7th, 2009
Equivalent to KZ2 target video but hopefully with a shorter wait time to see the end product.
Perhaps one of the most fascinating real demo’s with past tech utilized in a different way that I’ve seen lately is that of the wiimote and sensor bars reversed for headtracking. This can give us some sense of what Natal will bring to the table (it gets really good about 3 minutes into the vid):
gizmodo.com/337068/wii-headtracking-creates-3d-window-display
The same guy, Johnny Chung Lee, has this to say about Natal:
“The human tracking algorithms that the teams have developed are well ahead of the state of the art in computer vision in this domain. The sophistication and performance of the algorithms rival or exceed anything that I’ve seen in academic research, never mind a consumer product. At times, working on this project has felt like a miniature “Manhattan project” with developers and researchers from around the world coming together to make this happen.”
gizmodo.com/5280496/project-natal-won-e3-and-maybe-the-motion-control-wars?skyline=true&s=x
I still have to say though, the best voice recognition I have found to date has been on my IPhone 3G Google search app. No voice training and instant, 100% accurate recognition every time.
blorge.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=59
June 7th, 2009
@Carl,
LOL… you seem to really have high hopes about the Natal tech. I guess its always good to keep the hope alive.
Anyway, if you think that custom rig job with the Wii mote was impressive you should check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFN8cW1mSVY
Maybe one day in the future Natal can do what was possible over a year ago.
June 7th, 2009
Actually here is a better video with actual sound so you can hear the reaction to the guy..
http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/02/27/playstation-3-head-tracking-no-gimmicks-no-glasses-just-a-camera-watch-this/
June 7th, 2009
Not surprising seeing as it was not live demo’d.
See how it pans out eh !!
June 7th, 2009
Dirk, yep that’s pretty much the same software running three months later with the playstation eye, though the wii-motes seemed to actually turn out a more impressive display, and without the professional setup.
Not sure what you mean by “high hopes” but if it means better response time, scanning capabilities, and apps than the eye or vision cam has had in the past, sure.
June 7th, 2009
@Carlb – ‘the best voice recognition I have found to date has been on my IPhone 3G Google search app’
Yeah I saw a video on that, freaking amazing…
The 3d display stuff by that Johnny guy is neat (that footage has been around a while) but again, I really can’t see the application. I thought for a second it would be neat to ‘look around corners’ until i remember that if you’re looking around a corner, you’re not looking at the screen. So I dunno, maybe if someone asks you a question you can nod to say yes or no, or something… I suppose you could look at the ’sides’ of objects as long as you don’t move too far (so you can still see the screen).
As for Peter M. We all know he’s the Duke of ‘Overblown claims’, so this hardly comes as a shock. Its E3, and companies have shown (such as KZ2) the need to fire out glam videos so it sucks us all in, until they get exposed. Oh well, here’s hoping the tradition continues next year!
June 7th, 2009
OK, peeking around corners in FPS’s would actually be very cool, but you could only peek, because of course the screen don’t move
(make a moving screen too and i am fookin sold)…
June 7th, 2009
Project Natal is beyond Microsoft’s abilities they didn’t have any working prototype. Which can only mean that Project Natal was just a cover up a made up video to get high hopes. Sony actually had a working prototype with an awesome response. Nintendo was just an embarrassment to gaming again. I hate Wii controller i hate Natal i hate %100 motion sensing controller is lame. PLAYSTATION Eye is all i need is awesome more advanced they anything on the market. Microsoft had a dreadful E3 show the guy speaking on Microsoft’s behalf when Hideo announce Rising he has a body problem and he looks very stupid and retarded nothing good a pure moron.
June 7th, 2009
‘Which can only mean that Project Natal was just a cover up a made up video to get high hopes. ‘
Yes they had all those people on stage rehearse a set of moves!! Just like a dance or a wrestling match!
Ivan has cracked this one folks, time to fess up Microsoft!
And the scum thought they could get away with it………………..
June 7th, 2009
SW, agreed on all counts. Apps and in game uses will definitely be the deciding feature in whether it lives or dies. I could see the fitness side of software doing well with this, if done right, and a definite daily use and time saving with menu nav and hardware control.
June 7th, 2009
I read somewhere else that some guy named Victor introduced himself to Milo, and left, and when he came back Milo recognised him. Anyway, it’s all heresay and speculation at the moment, none of us have seen it, not even Ivan, even though he hates it already. No bias there, huh poostache?
June 7th, 2009
@ Charlieb,
Thanks for the Rock Band session today! It was fun.
June 7th, 2009
Mike what are you on about?
Milo was clearly demo’d as the most advanced and leading edge part of Natal.
It’s probably best described at this stage as conceptual, I don’t recall anyone saying it was the finished polished product.
I was impressed that it was at a stage where they were prepared to let non-company people try it out though.
The whole thing is obviously under development and was an interesting (and impressive) insight as to where they are going to go with the project.
What would you rather?
Nothing gets shown until it’s 100% ready and on the verge of hitting the shop shelves or is it not a little more interesting to see where they are trying to take the tech?
Personally I think a taster is, by far, the most interesting (and something the rest would be doing with their own leading edge stuff – assuming they had something big like this).
With the most demanding tech (your parallel with voice recognition is fair, although it has to be said that being something that is primarily software based who knows, we know software is always evolving) I expect some of this to break into the market when the next Xbox appears.
A few were saying that what we saw at E3 ‘proves’ Xbox 720 (or whatever) isn’t coming.
I think the truth is the exact opposite.
I look forward to it too.
June 7th, 2009
No problem Harry.
As for showing the “potential” (ever hear that one before?), I think it is a good idea, especially for a prototype, which they specifically said this was.
Number one it shows the public to give them some idea of what can be anticipated for the future on the console. Number two it gives developers that have just recently received the kits an idea that Microsoft is fully supporting it and has a focus in that direction, unlike other half-hearted attempts in the past with the Eye and Vision Cam.
Finally, considering the competition’s showings for their own motion sensing prototypes, it clearly came out on top with the majority of websites and journalists as the best of the show. Now we just have to wait and see if the reality next year can meet the majority of what was shown this year, as major titles may take at least another year or two to be finished products.
June 7th, 2009
Katie Speaks!
Step aside little boys, and let the girls talk.
Some of you boys are totally retarded. no offense but like complete idiots! seriously. I mean like first of all you cant even see the writing on the wall. And second its totally obvious! the only *guys* with blue bals here are ps3 romantics. We all know they totally hate xbox and windows and bill gates or whatever, cause their losing and like bad too. As I see it, Xbox romantics are taking this way too personal. Their always defending themselves but why? Winning doesnt get you off? oh no. Its cause the ps3 is the only compitition. Uh hello! the ps3 is losing. Why do u think ps3 kids are always on their period? they arent winning. catching up? more like going backwards. Xbox kids are loving it. i could care less what you idiots do but just cause i’m a girl it doesnt mean i’m dumb. Its not hard to tell who’s got who up against the ropes here. not just the places, but i mean the fan fights. hint hint – xbox fans dont fight back like before. i wonder why… maybe becuz they dont have to!
oh brainfart! my first point which I didn’t get to: this website seem tiny and unimportantl. They only do articles like this to get attention from the fanboys. like on n4g. Uhh… what a turnoff.
Katie
June 8th, 2009
Well I say well done Microsoft for being a bit more forward thinking than some other ‘copy cat’ companies. They have not got it finished yet but lets be honest, that is where gaming is going, no matter what some backward minded individuals think.
Remember the scene from Back to the future 2 where the kids in the cafe think that Wild Gunmen is a “babies toy” coz you have to use your hands. That is what we will think of Ivan in 5 years when he still has his fat ass planted on the sofa playing simple simon style games with his digital play station buttoned pad.
The future is oddly enough analogue gaming. Where the player makes the difference with skill, not just pushing buttons in the correct order like now.
Everybody needs to open there eyes and see whats coming. Nintendo opened the door (well done) and now Microsoft have joined them. sony on the other hand seem to want to act like the scared kid that doesn’t want to get in the pool in case they drown. But as soon as other have dived in they are happy to dip there toe and then claim they are the bravest.
June 8th, 2009
“I don’t recall anyone saying it was the finished polished product”
I don’t recall anyone saying it was fiction either!
Surprise, Surprise!
I knew that it was to accurate to be true.
June 8th, 2009
Right after watching there E3 show, I commented about how Peter Molyneux is known for this sort of thing. He over hypes… he’s done it more than a few times in the past. I’m really surprised that they used him of all people.
btw who is RMS? I saw that they posted the link to this article on amazon lol.
June 8th, 2009
Any reason my posts are note getting moderated??? Again!
June 8th, 2009
to me aLL 3 motion sensing cotroller sucks. I rather play with a fisical controller.
June 8th, 2009
“Equivalent to KZ2 target video ”
I dont see the Relationship between the two.
June 8th, 2009
“I dont see the Relationship between the two.”
really?
fake video to show “potential” of a product.
June 8th, 2009
Awww cmon, Ivan’s already had posts deleted due to copy-pasta.
It pretty much confirms what we all think anywhoos. That Molynuex’s setup wasn’t really as tight as the video shown at the conference, BUT it does show potential.
June 8th, 2009
SW
I think it’s fair enough, it adds to what we know and it’s completely on topic too.
When ncaissie wades in with some dumb nonsense claiming it’s all just “fiction” I for one am happy to see CAD giving the truth of the matter (and from several sources).
CAD
I’d like to see your links.
June 8th, 2009
Mike please delete CAD’s bs
You 360 guys are taking the Natal thing too serious, that a thing someone would play for a month and then forget about it.
June 8th, 2009
When did Ivan get his stuff deleted? I remember seeing one of kev’s posts deleted (which happened to be after Ivan’s paste), while Ivan’s same pasted “live blog” is still on three or more different articles here.
“Potential”
June 8th, 2009
OK so the million dollar question: if Milo works out to be anything remotely close to what they’re advertising… are you guys really going to buy it?
This seems like it could entertain me for about 20 minutes before i lose interest completely.
June 8th, 2009
“This seems like it could entertain me for about 20 minutes before i lose interest completely.”
EXACTLY!! thats the way I see it, but some of you are hyping it up like if thats going to be the next way of gaming. ppl are going to have fun with it for about 3 days after that they are all going to turn their x360 on (if it doest Red ring before they do) and their are going to go straight to gaming instead of wasting time to do some body motion to play with the stupid milo.
June 8th, 2009
I’m actually pretty excited to see both the 360 and ps3 motion sensing in the flesh.
June 8th, 2009
CAD
I’d like to see your links.
I gotta look for it again but the first one is from IGN, the second is from Kotaku and the last is from Joystiq.
June 8th, 2009
@HH
‘I think it’s fair enough, it adds to what we know and it’s completely on topic too.’
Ivan was told to just link as far i understood tho.
On rule to erm, rule them all!
June 8th, 2009
“Mike please delete CAD’s bs
You 360 guys are taking the Natal thing too serious, that a thing someone would play for a month and then forget about it.”
What ever just stop the hate. No here is declaring this as the game that every 360 owner will want. You guys are forgetting that I’m only responding to Mike when he writes BS but you guys hate to hear the truth which is why you hate. The 3 article give a balanced true feedback of the experience and not some Bias garbage that Mike writes acting like the game was ready to be packaged and shipped. Hence the term “”Project” Milo”.
June 8th, 2009
Oh, I’m not knocking the articles Happy. Just the posting (not sure what you were saying ‘adds to what we know’).
June 8th, 2009
CAD
are you gonna have fun with MILO??? or Milo is going to have fun with you?
Milo = Microsoft = Give ur money
I hope Milo doesnt ask you to give him money to play
June 8th, 2009
“You 360 guys are taking the Natal thing too serious, that a thing someone would play for a month and then forget about it.”
Yeah, a bit like what happens with the Wii…but do Nintendo care? Do they fuck.
June 8th, 2009
@Barnabe.
Altho it sounds as if at the moment Milo is just like an IRC chat bot that uses carefully selected questions and responses depending on what you put in.
I don’t think thats what we should be paying attention to… Its really about the camera(software) being able to say ‘hey the user has a blue shirt on’ and the voice tone recognition, facial recognition etc.
Maybe they are making truly groundbreaking work into AI here, but like I said previously, I’ve seen IRC chat bots that work the same. I could say ‘I have a blue shirt’ and they would reply ‘I like blue shirts!’ (of course the sw can detect tone etc, but these would just be like parameters to my question, like (question, mood)… thats kinda simplistic
).
Anywhoos, I guess the point it, try to lay off the AI a little, its really the ‘other’ stuff that its using as inputs that are the neat things.
June 8th, 2009
@CAD – Speaking for myself, I don’t dislike or want to sensor the articles you pasted (I’d previously read the IGN on, and its pretty much spot on, its unfinished, but shows much potential).
I’d just prefer the links over walls of text.
June 8th, 2009
*censor
June 8th, 2009
Talking of links, I like this one
community.winsupersite.com/blogs/paul/archive/2009/06/08/proof-that-project-natal-won-t-work-as-advertised.aspx
June 8th, 2009
SW
By ‘adds to what we know’ I meant finally someone was putting up some of the impressions & results from those who got a chance to try out Milo themselves (this opportunity was referred to in the youtube vid).
Don’t you think it’s a worthwhile addition to the youtube?
Roca
You really have lost it, haven’t you?
What charity do you get your (free) gaming stuff from?
lock_down
Your blog link doesn’t work.
Who is Paul anyways?
June 8th, 2009
Is this really worth arguing over? The real travesty will be if this tech never actually gets used properly, e.g. the “promise” goes “unfulfilled.”
All we have right now is something POTENTIALLY awesome, and we have to wait and see if that potential is fulfilled.
-Arvis
June 8th, 2009
‘Don’t you think it’s a worthwhile addition to the youtube?’
Yes the youtube that was LINKED from blorge.
I don’t care what articles CAD wants to post, I object to the walls of text that are slapping me in the nuts.
June 8th, 2009
@CAD,
*3 Posts deleted
Come on CAD you know better than to copy and paste here, use links.
Please don’t make me block you, I really do enjoy your presence here as you raise some good points. Use the forums if you must, but lets keep the comments section streamlined.
Thanks.
June 8th, 2009
It should work Happy.
Paul…Paul Thurrott…Microsoft, Windows, Xbox nut. I’ll paste here then…
“So I was reading through an article about the Xbox 360 “controller-less controller” on EuroGamer and noticed something alarming. Let’s see if you can figure it out.
“The project director, Alex Kipman, told us while demoing how his shiny new technology can be used to play good old Burnout Paradise.”
See it? It’s subtle, but if you look hard enough, you’ll notice it.
That’s right. It says “Alex Kipman.”
Now, who is this guy, you ask? He was an engineer on the Windows Ultimate Extras team. You know, the guys who brought us … well. Almost nothing, actually. Microsoft only made some of the few Ultimate Extras that ever did ship in-house. But you know, they did demo a cool wallpaper once. (The link 404s. Which sort of proves my point.) So what I remember Alex for were the promises. Great things were coming out of the Ultimate team. Great things.
You know, kind of like with Project Natal.”
Makes me chuckle
June 8th, 2009
“@CAD – Speaking for myself, I don’t dislike or want to sensor the articles you pasted (I’d previously read the IGN on, and its pretty much spot on, its unfinished, but shows much potential).
I’d just prefer the links over walls of text.”
OK Understood but what is the point of linking an article when you can just read it. I’m saving you the hassel. I think you guys don’t like seeing it because it makes Mike look like a fool. I guess that’s why it’s deleted. I know Mike anyone coming here will see that your full of shit after reading it so go ahead and delete whatever because I’ll put it right back. And no I’m not going to the Forums because waisting my time on one of your sites is good enough for me.
June 8th, 2009
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/991/991348p1.html
http://kotaku.com/5275204/testing-molyneuxs-milo-a-virtual-boy-with-yes-a-dog
http://www.joystiq.com/2009/06/02/taking-a-walk-with-milo-molyneuxs-project-natal-game/
There Mike is that Streamlined enough for you?
June 8th, 2009
Oh and Mike if the article from Lock_down is not removed I’m going on a rampage like you’ve never seen.
June 8th, 2009
@CAD,
Stop being childish, as you know your posts aren’t the only ones getting deleted.
I actually want you to voice your opinions I have no problems with you starting long debates. Just follow the one rule I’ve been saying.
I really would hate to block you considering your one my biggest contributor/fan.
- XboX Rules! PS3 SuX!
June 8th, 2009
Mike Ferro:
Thanks…
Oh and Xbox SuX and PS3 Rules!
Block him for being so childish.
I thought i was your biggest contributor here.
Unlike CAD i own both system i give credit when credit needs to be given to Microsoft and Sony.
I love linking my sources instead of just copy pasting them like CAD. E3 Articles sorry.
June 8th, 2009
@Katie “just cause i’m a girl it doesnt mean i’m dumb.” – No being a girl doesn’t mean your dumb, the crap you posted means yore dumb.
@CAD, Mike, and Ivan – lol
@SW – good point.
June 8th, 2009
Don’t rag on Katie, she might be hot…
June 8th, 2009
Yeah… in 6 years when she hits 18.
June 8th, 2009
Now go cook me something.
June 8th, 2009
@ mike,
Are you seriously considering blocking CAD, someone who has been here for years? If anything, you really should consider blocking Roca. That’s unless you like having trolls on here.
June 8th, 2009
@Barnabe
June 8th, 2009
‘I think you guys don’t like seeing it because it makes Mike look like a fool.’
Riiiiiight. I don’t care if you make Mike look like a complete cock gobbler.
June 8th, 2009
Milo, at least to me, is the least interesting aspect of Natal, and the one that would be the farthest away from seeing the light of day.
Hand and voice navigation through menus, throwing grenades in modern warfare, beating somebody to a pulp in fight night, or going through a real workout with a virtual trainer (i.e. something 10 times as good as Wii Fit or EA Active) are all things I could see doing fairly easily with this. Whether these things happen or not won’t be known by anyone for quite awhile.
June 8th, 2009
lol @ Harry
No one is getting blocked (I hope). We just need to lay off the copy & pastes and every one will be happy.
Carl, that sounds pretty fair.
June 8th, 2009
a chicken gobbler?
June 8th, 2009
First of all I’d just like to say that IMHO bans are usually a pretty stupid way to go about anything.
This is hardly serious & meriting a ban either,
lock_down
I found the article (link still wouldn’t work for me but I found it on the site).
IMO that’s a pretty feeble bash (and it’s well and truly pointed out as such in the comments section of the article).
So what if a guy worked on another project that (in some people’s opinion) failed to deliver what they think was promised?
It ‘proves’ nothing in this instance.
June 8th, 2009
You know what they say about those who can’t stop eating fowl.
June 9th, 2009
The happy-ometer just peaked.
I got my media sharing working again between my Xbox & PC.
Happy days!
SW
Has anyone done the ’suck this it’s fowl’ gag yet?
June 9th, 2009
@CAD
“What ever just stop the hate” an interesting statement coming from you.
“but you guys hate to hear the truth which is why you hate.” again, an interesting statement coming from such a passionate X360 fan like you.
You are many things CAD, including passionate, but a total asswipe is right up there at the top. I wanna see CAD go on a rampage. I bet it’s something like my 2year old temper tantrums…” Mike blocked my post cause I was a tool….BOOHOOBOOHOO”
As an owner of all 3 current consoles (including a PSP) I think there is a lot of potential there to be something that is truely ground breaking, but the emphasis is on potential.
June 9th, 2009
Kind of like the cell.
June 9th, 2009
Lol @ happy, don’t take it too seriously.
June 9th, 2009
Suspend him….that kid has issues.
this is what goes through his mind
“Xbox..M$…Xbox..M$…Xbox..M$…Xbox..M$…Xbox..M$”
he should get a PS3 and then talk sh*t. just because u used one at a friends house doesnt mean you know what ps3 can do, and obiosly u need to play PS3 exclisves to see the difference
June 9th, 2009
Roca, chalk another 1 up to your usual ’standard’ = laughably pathetic.
June 9th, 2009
get a life
June 9th, 2009
“IMO that’s a pretty feeble bash…”
Ok, Happy, I’m not disagreeing with you, but what the heck would it take for you to consider a bash NOT feeble? I mean, it would have to be the mother of all bashes. I can’t imagine you coming in here, reading something, then posting “WHOA, that was WAY outta line!!”
-Arvis
June 9th, 2009
Arvis
Seriously, do you take a comment like that seriously?
Would you write an entire new promising tech off just because some one individual now working on it once worked on something you were less than impressed with?
If the entire team was the same and had a proven tack-record it might be different but in this single instance I’d call that reaching and pretty feeble.
lock_down’s correct, a little reflection shows it’s not really worth taking too seriously.
June 9th, 2009
“Ok, Happy, I’m not disagreeing with you…” is what I said. You were right, as far as “bashes” go, it was a huge stretch. I was just making a joke.
Actually, I was really hoping you would respond to me by simply saying: “WHOA, Arvis, that was WAY outta line!”
…would have made my day. *sigh*
-Arvis
June 9th, 2009
WHOA, Arvis, that was WAY outta line!
….
…..
……
Guess that didn’t really work did it…
June 10th, 2009
WHOA, Arvis, that ……ah fuggit.
Sh!t SW, you really screwed with my pitch there man!
June 10th, 2009
That turned out even better than I’d hoped!
-Arvis