Gears of War boss says PS3 price cut makes no sense now

July 25, 2009

Gears of War boss says PS3 price cut makes no sense nowWith the state of the economy across the globe, many companies are being hit hard. Like many of the CE businesses out there, Sony has been having a difficult year and the fact that analysts are clamoring for a PS3 price drop isn’t helping. The boss of the studio that brought you Gears of War 2 had some choice words to say about the situation.

Due to the recession the CE sector has taken a big hit this year. With the most expensive game system out on the market currently, things have not been all that rosy for Sony. However, the company has maintained that it will not lower the price of the PS3 until it can be manufactured at under break-even costs.

According to Eurogamer via Gameindustry.Biz, Mark Rein VP of EPIC Games indicated that a PS3 price drop this year would have made things worse for Sony so it wouldn’t make sense to do it at this time.

Rein states:

The truth is Sony has had a difficult year and I think they had to do what they had to do to try to be profitable. They have their own financial issues to solve and lowering the price of the console would probably have made their situation worse. They will get around to it in their own good time. If you’re willing to look at this as a long-term play, they’re going to be just fine.

I have to agree with Rein here that it really doesn’t make much sense to lower the price of the PS3 at this time. PS3 sales have slumped a bit but its still selling around 165k units per month at $399, which isn’t exactly rock bottom when compared to the Xbox 360′s 241k per month in the U.S.

Lowering the price will spur a huge sales spike, but at what cost? The bottom line is that Sony needs to be able to sell a lot of units without losing a penny on manufacturing the PS3. The only option that really makes sense for Sony is to continue to work on reducing manufacturing costs until the company can drop the price of the PS3 and still remain profitable. As Rein stated, “If you’re willing to look at this as a long-term play, they’re [Sony] going to be just fine.”

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125 Responses to “Gears of War boss says PS3 price cut makes no sense now”

  1. lock_down:

    Xbox 360 sold 11.2 million FY09
    PS3 sold 10.03 million FY09

    Alll things considered, I don’t think that’s too bad on Sony’s part.

  2. Happyhockum:

    lock_down

    I’ve seen that Xbox number before, where’d you get the PS3 number from?

    The problem Sony have here is that they as a whole are losing money.
    Microsoft have seen profits down, but they are still (enormously) profitable
    Apparantly the MS gaming division is profitable too – something one might think – after Stringer’s recent remarks – that does not apply to Sony’s gaming section.

  3. CAD:

    Well Sony really has not done too bad considering the amount of consoles they have sold at these high prices. Sure they are in third but to date they have built a nice install base. But then there is the flip side to that because the install base is not making them money due to their hybrid approach to the PS3. The mere fact that a good percentage of that install only bought it for a bluray player is what is hurting their game sales.

  4. CAD:

    Just wanted to let you guys know that the Madden 10 demo is up on Xbox LIVE. I’m sure the PS3 will get one too, Hopefully!

  5. Happyhockum:

    Yeah but it’s just damage limitation CAD.
    If Stringer is telling the truth and every sales still costs them money then that is a very double-edged situation to be in.

    As you rightly say we already know from the attach rates that the biggest money-spinner (game sales) isn’t really happening for them either.

    Bag of hurt indeed.

  6. Knighthawk:

    Oh man another PS3 price cut article! Slow news day indeed! :(

  7. Roca.:

    SONY gaming div makes more money then any one else. if not why is more “first party” exclusive than anyone else. (not counting 3rd parties, the Wii is the king on that)

    Media Molecule is already working on LBP PSP and LBP 2, Insonmiac does a game per year. Guerrilla is now working on another Title, San Diego studio handles two games a year (MLB the Show, NBA series)…PixelJunk dev are already working on their Forth title. Sony London has done like 4 or 5 Singstar games or PS3.

    so get ur fact straight.

    on the other hand M$ doesnt even have that many studio, they dont even own Bungie, so figure that

  8. CAD:

    LOL oh that was funny.

  9. CAD:

    maybe he is Ivan!

  10. CON:

    CAD it’s got to the point of being pathetic lol. Ivan has at least 2 other alias names on this site by my count. The best was when he didn’t log out and responded to a question under the wrong name

  11. CON:

    http://play.tm/news/8559/playstation-3-predicted-to-sell-121-8-million/

    This is a brilliant article about how the ps3 will dominate and the wii will be the nail in the coffin for nintendo……….although keep in mind it was written in 2006

  12. Barnabe Jones:

    “Xbox 360 sold 11.2 million FY09
    PS3 sold 10.03 million FY09

    All things considered, I don’t think that’s too bad on Sony’s part.”

    - You are exactly correct, however that doesn’t make for an exciting story.

  13. Happyhockum:

    No-one care to post where that PS3 number is coming from?

  14. harry sachz:

    It’s definitely Ivan. All he’s done is run his spiel through a spell/grammar checker before posting it as roca, however he sometimes forgets to do this, i.e his post above.

  15. lock_down:

    scei.co.jp/corporate/data/bizdataps3_sale_e.html

    It’s actually 10.06. And it’s actually a rise year-on-year with no price cut.

    The 360 had a well publiced price cut in the fall.

  16. Ivan_PSP:

    You Xbox owners that think i use another name can go suck a fucking dick fucking losers. Personally i don’t like writing this bad comments but you morons need people that tell you the fucking true. You are big annoying LOSERS that need to get a fucking life other then playing fucking PlayStation or Xbox fuck that shit already.

    If you wanna think I’m someone else go ahead what ever makes your so call life better.

    I wish you losers realize how stupid you are. Fighting a battle with your own self this website is the same people writing the same shit.

  17. harry sachz:

    What about the PS3 owners who know you’re roca too? Do they have to suck a horse’s dick too?

  18. Knighthawk:

    ^
    Lol, I’m a PS3 owner and Ivan = Roca 100%. Give it up Ivan, you’re not fooling anybody!

  19. kev:

    “Lowering the price will spur a huge sales spike, but at what cost?”
    sorry, Mike, but even Stringer stated a drop in price does NOT mean an increase sales.

    why do you make comments like these when history has shown the ps3 has had mutiple price drops and still has not had any “huge spike”?

    *sigh*….fanboys…. keep the dream alive….

  20. Roca.:

    Barnabe Jones and Spideydog both have on their PSN friend list, and im definetly not ivan.

    just because I throw in some facts when you xbots head make some wild comments, now you are calling me Ivan to change the whole subject and not look stupid. [pathetic]

    Example:
    Happy: “No-one care to post where that PS3 number is coming from?”

    then after Lock_down posted his source all you guys ignore it and focused on Ivan instead.

    but hey if Ivan makes ur console look like its the King of this Gen then let it be.

  21. Akaro:

    I still think that a slight redesign for the PS3 that keeps the same quality but at a lower price will happen soon. If Xbox could break even, I don´t see why this wouldn´t happen to the PS3.

  22. Happyhockum:

    lock_down

    That’s a Sony site, excuse me if I have my doubts on it’s accuracy.

  23. Happyhockum:

    Akaro

    One of PS3′s fundamental differences is the Blu-ray drive.

    Blu-ray requires a much much more precise and accurate drive which just cannot be made at ‘regular’ DVD prices – especially seeing how Blu-ray has yet to take off and they are still not reaping the gains production of several hundred million would give them in in ‘economies of scale’.

    There’s also the fact that Blu-ray disc replication is far more expensive than DVD – it requires a new and very expensive production line, not a slightly modified DVD line.

    All those 1st party games Sony make have a flip-side of costing Sony more than if they were on DVD.

    All in all PS3 and Xbox costs are not really comparable.

    Roca

    Excuse me for not being able to make it in until now…..no big conspiracy.
    Besides, it’s from a single unverifiable source (Sony, hardly the most reliable or trustworthy).

  24. Happyhockum:

    Put it like this, if I posted up a highly debateable (in the light of the years data from other sources we’ve seen so far) stat/claim like that from Microsoft you’d be all over it wanting an independant credible industry source.

    If it’s good enough for you guys…… ;)

  25. Roca.:

    there you go with ur bluray comments again lol. is bluray costing you any money,

    if YES then keep talk all the crap you want

    if NO the shut the *** up…jesh

    Happy: DVD RULESS!! BLURAY SUCKS

  26. Happyhockum:

    Roca

    Er, ok, so it’s easy to see how a fanboy like you can’t bear to hear it but you know Blu-ray does have a bearing on all of this.

    It was Akaro that asked the question and I answered with the facts.

    Blu-ray is indeed reason numero uno why Sony blew it’s game console dominance and it’s the prime reason why they are stuck unable to do much about their prices.

    Hard lines that you don’t like to hear it but if someone poses the question then it’s only fair to give the answer.

  27. phranctoast:

    blu ray sales are up 91% from last year. I sure hope it takes off!!!

    ttp://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10288294-1.html

    I wonder why developers when asked, never mention the replication cost of blu ray. (Happy’s news is old by far). I’ve heard developers complain about the royalty charge they have to endure when dealing with multiple disks on the 360.

  28. kev:

    phranc – that’s because the publisher eats the cost, not the developer.

    the fact it costs over 3x’s as much to author a bluray disk than a dvd is not something the publishers are happy about, but are forced to deal with.

    ‘royalty charge’, too are eaten by the publishers are are in fact due to the IP…NOT the format…. please stop making crap up again….

  29. kev:

    lockdown – you used FY 08 for FY 09 sales numbers…. hint: if you can’t read charts properly, don’t quote them… thanks..

  30. phranctoast:

    developers and publishers. Simply semantics to the greater argument. Well done kev.

  31. Roca.:

    Happy I dont see where it says bluray in Akaro’s question.

    also you stated developers complaining about the used of bluray. THAS BULL lol.

    are you still making things up. i thought u quit the habit.

    I see more developer complaining about having to make a game on multiples DVDs or about having to compress and sacrifice quality to make the game fit on a single DVD.

  32. Akaro:

    HH:

    I see. I thought things looked better for Sony after the success of Blu-ray in Japan and Toshiba´s statement of using the technology in the near future.

  33. Happyhockum:

    phranctoast

    You know you ought to pay little attention to those % claims.
    Stick to the raw numbers, it’s far more enlightening.

    $400 million & 40 million units in 1/2 a year.
    Compared to sales for all of last year of 63.2 million (which was 4.45% of the total movie disc market).

    So it looks like this year (if you make the huge assumption that Blu-ray won’t be just like gaming and suffer the recession after a little delay) Blu-ray will still take less than 9% of the market.
    3yrs+ in that is not good.

    Note that (legal) digital distribution was $1 billion already – and if recent reports are true all digital distribution accounts for 16 BILLION ‘units’.

    …..and whether it is “old” (well known or whatever) has no bearing on the fact that a Blu-ray replication line is far more expensive because it involves either installing a brand new line or the ripping out and replacing of an existing DVD line. That costs and there is no getting around it.
    Especially when DVD still sells so very strongly.

    Roca

    I know it’s hard for you to grasp but Akaro asked how come PS3 can’t just fall in price like the Xbox.
    Blu-ray’s additional costs are prime in why not.

    Akara
    Blu-ray is probably doing better in Japan than anywhere else but it’s still not generating production numbers even close to DVD’s.

    BTW from what I’ve seen it’s a Japanese newspaper that has claimed Toshiba are going to make a Blu-ray player by the end of the year.
    I have seen no such announcement or statement from Toshiba.
    In fact no-one has been able to produce anything but a claim from a 3rd party (ie the Japanese newspaper).
    I’d wait and see before making big claims about what they are going to be doing.

  34. Barnabe Jones:

    Just to clear the air once and for all… I have seen Roca and Ivan logged into PSN at the same time.

  35. Roca.:

    Happy

    “Blu-ray is probably doing better in Japan than anywhere else but it’s still not generating production numbers even close to DVD’s.”

    are you counting them, still keeping up to date with your numbers???

    you surely are the bluray expert. and then you start talkin about DD, but DD is not here yet.

    Akaro, dont let this blind 360 fanboy brain-washed you. Bluray is great specially if you dont have one at the moment. i know u have a wii and I know the PS3 is $200 more than a 360 but it is worth it. if you Think about it $200 is nothing. you a relaible console with a bluray player with online access, free PSN where u can buy games and movies. Wifi built, and easy upgradable hard drive.

    or mayb u should listen to Happy he works at the Bluray factory

  36. Happyhockum:

    Roca

    Don’t be such a c*ck.

    Digital distribution is here (ffs are you blind to what your PS3 and the Xbox is already doing?).

    Even that 91% report phranctoast linked shows $1 billion legal DDs (v $400 million in Blu-rays).

    Total downloads last year are said to have accounted for 16 Billion application, movie & music files (2 billion legal and 14 supposedly illegal).

    As for Blu-ray drive production v DVD drive production?
    Are you seriously trying to claim that global Blu-ray drive production numbers are in any way even remotely close to global DVD drive numbers?!
    That necessarily means BD production cannot enjoy the ‘economies of scale’ DVD does.

    Similarly (coming from the boy who thought HDMI was just a means of connecting your TV to your game console/DVD player or BD player) the fact that you know nothing of the accuracy & technical requirements of the Blu-ray drive (far beyond that required for DVD) is laughably meaningless.

    Who gives a sh*t that you know nothing about it?
    You’ve already proved your a/v knowledge about this sort of tech is laughably limited
    (not that it stops you proniouncing upon it as if you did have a clue).

    (oh yeah, and the idea that you – one of the biggest PS3 fanboys here – would warn someone else off of the info I’ve given cos you consider me a fanboy is nothing short of hilarious irony gone nuts)

  37. CON:

    Sorry Ivan/Roca not so sure about bluray catching on. By the time HDTVs replace standard TVs cheap HD downloads will be the number one choice, not rip off bluray disks.

    And as for the 2 different PSN accounts. That’s free to do right? lol

  38. Roca.:

    is it free to get all 700 trophies on one account and about 300 on the other one?

    1 Billion DD right? that includes 60% music, 20% music videos, 10% movies and 10% HD movies (HD DD is still limited)

    Con, by that time PS4 will be already out.

    Happy, why are you comparing the number between DVD v Bluray, DVD is been out since 2000

  39. SW:

    You’d need a second PS3 to log the second account in at the same time (altho you can create however many PSN accounts you want afaik).

    Ivan in the past has boasted about how he owns 600 of everything tho…. dum DUM *DUMMMMM*

  40. Happyhockum:

    Roca

    You’re obviously trying to move away from the original point.
    Akaro asked why PS3 is having problems chopping its proce.
    Blu-rays inherent higher costs v DVD are a major part of the answer.
    It is getting through yet?

    16 billion downloads (alst year) and $1 billion in sales so far (for 6mths of this year), that can only grow and grow.
    However you try and sub-devide it you’re missing the point.
    It’s all digital distribution happenign right now (which you want to pretend is years away).

  41. kev:

    phranc – no…not semantic…they are two vastly different things….. it just amazes me how little you ps3 fanboys actually know about this industry…. oh wait…no it doesn’t…

  42. Ivan_PSP:

    dumb ass

  43. harry sachz:

    He’s going to great lengths to pretend he’s two people. Shame nobody is buying it.

  44. CarlB:

    “blu ray sales are up 91% from last year. I sure hope it takes off!!!

    ttp://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10288294-1.html”

    phranc, from the same report you referenced above:

    “consumer spending on sellthrough packaged media was down 13.5 percent in the first half of 2009,” the release says, “this was partially offset by the growth of Blu-ray (up 91 percent to $407 million) and digital distribution (up 21 percent to $968 million, which includes $196 million for electronic sellthough).”

    This means DD already more than doubles Blu-ray? Nice.

    “I’ve heard developers complain about the royalty charge they have to endure when dealing with multiple disks on the 360.”

    I’ve heard developers complain about the royalty charge they have to endure when simply putting a demo up on PSN:

    “PlayStation Network Bandwidth Fee,” implemented in October of last year, asks publishers to pay 16 cents for every gigabyte of bandwidth distributed through the PlayStation Store. The charge, which applies to everything from demos to game add-ons, is one difference between Sony’s network and Microsoft’s Xbox Live Marketplace that’s giving publishers pause. “It definitely makes us think about how we view the distribution of content related to our games when it is free for us to do it on the web, on Xbox Live, or any other way – including broadcast – than on Sony’s platform,” explained one source. “It’s a new thing we have to budget. It’s not cool. It sucks.”

    I.e. say RE5 gets 8 million of the 21+ million install base to download just the demo, it costs the publisher $1,280,000. Just for the demo. No wonder the publishers are saying “not cool. It sucks” when speaking of putting content out on PSN when it is free for them to put it out on XBox Live.

  45. phranctoast:

    @Carlb.
    I wonder how much of that number is for movie downloads and doesn’t include music or other media.
    I don’t know anyone at all buying movie downloads.

    As for the psn charge….. which would you rather have CarlB. Sony charge you or the publisher?

    @kev
    “phranc – no…not semantic…they are two vastly different things….. it just amazes me how little you ps3 fanboys actually know about this industry…. oh wait…no it doesn’t…”

    I live such generic kev responses. They’re so predictable. Say something random and then act pretentious.
    OK…kev…you win. So publishers get hit up. Wouldn’t that not be MS is most cases? Didn’t SE publish the most of the games that require multiple discs for the 360?

  46. Roca.:

    DD numbers dont mean anything.

    obviosly the % of movies and games download are very very low.

    another thing we have to take into account that most bluray movies comes with a Digital version of it.

    and you guys keep talking all you want but DD is far from here. there are very few “retail games” for Digital Download. i know M$ is trying to compete with PSN by doing the “games on demand” thing, so far I think there are only 5 first party title available.

  47. Barnabe Jones:

    Carlb.,

    I love the way how you guys try to justify paying for Xbox live. Honestly Sony charges the publishers, while xbox charges consumers. While you’re at it, why don’t you send M$ extra money each month if you like giving them your money so much.

    Imagine if Amazon charged you to shop at there website. Then imagine that Amazon bombarded you with advertisements while you were shopping at the site that you paid to use. Seriously guys, wake up. M$ is screwing you every chance they get, and then you guys flock to blogs every day to complain about Sony. It’s amazing.

  48. Roca.:

    ^^ while we are at it.

    these xbox ppl are getting mad like it is coming out of their pocket. lol

    I would get mad if I have to paid for the service, I glad Sony choose to charge the Publisher and not the Gamers/consumers.

    CarlB

    “I.e. say RE5 gets 8 million of the 21+ million install base to download just the demo, it costs the publisher $1,280,000. Just for the demo. No wonder the publishers are saying “not cool. It sucks” when speaking of putting content out on PSN when it is free for them to put it out on XBox Live.”

    yeah and we still see a whole buch of free Domos, videos, wallpapers etc for FREE every week, CAPCOM has its own space with a bunch of freebies and nobody is complaining but you guys

  49. Happyhockum:

    Roca.:
    “another thing we have to take into account that most bluray movies comes with a Digital version of it.”

    “Most”!?

    B*llocks they do. That’s a flat out lie.

    DD numbers do mean $1 Billion in sales
    (a huge 150% more than Blu-ray has sold this last 6 mth if you want a %).
    Hardly “nothing”.

    XBL alone has seen sales rise sharply (up 73% – but they don’t release specific numbers so it’s hard to see how much of an impact it is having on the overall total……you see how specific numbers count?)

    Barnabe Jones

    Your Amazon analogy would only hold true if Amazon allowed us a sample of almost everything they sell to try before buying.
    Note I said everything.

    We’re not forced to go gold either.

    Once again you’re offering a dumb analogy as if it is accurate when it could hardly be less so.

    Personally I’d rather have XBLs quality @ a few pennies a day.
    A few pennies a day?
    Hardly needs any kind “justifying”, not to me anyways.

  50. kev:

    barnabe – justifying paying for xbox live is muuuuch easier than justifying paying $600 for the ps3 that has a subpar online service, less games, and fewer gaming features than the competition…..

    kind of like how you guys justify paying extra for a voice com just so you can communicate online….

    besides, i happily pay for xbox live as it ensures the continuation of expansion of features, while securing their future. PSN, while free to the consumer, is a money drain on sony and won’t be around forever at this rate. something will have to give…. for instance; SOE just let go of 5% of their workforce… congrats; their online model just cost many fine people their careers….

    you ps3 fanboys are under the imprssion sony has oodles of money to throw away….they don’t.

    why do you hammer xbox live for subscription fees yet ignore sony’s subscription fees for their online pc gaming? and that’s just for ONE game….

    actually, i know the reason….you guys are hypocrites.

    it’s funny; the only ones whining about xbox live prices are ps3 zealouts who don’t use it. meanwhile, the tens of millions paying xbox live subscribers don’t have a problem with it…..

  51. kev:

    roca – actually, the ones complaining are publishers forced to pay sony to offer content on psn…. try to keep up…okay?

  52. kev:

    roca – btw; it’s funny you think DD aren’t impactful to bluray sales when sony is releasing Bravia TV with netflix steaming capabilities engineered within…..

    ouch….

  53. SW:

    Good lord, if its not the units themselves or the games, its the choice of media(which is odd considering both use DD anywhoos).

  54. phranctoast:

    “barnabe – justifying paying for xbox live is muuuuch easier than justifying paying $600 for the ps3 that has a subpar online service, less games, and fewer gaming features than the competition…..”

    and blu ray…. forgot about that small feature.

    “kind of like how you guys justify paying extra for a voice com just so you can communicate online….”

    Not every 360 comes with a headset, just like “not every one came with a HDD. At least the PS3 isn’t proprietary.

    “for instance; SOE just let go of 5% of their workforce… congrats; their online model just cost many fine people their careers….”

    Recession anyone. Did MS just let go of 15%? I could have sworn this happened. Maybe I was dreaming.

    “why do you hammer xbox live for subscription fees yet ignore sony’s subscription fees for their online pc gaming? and that’s just for ONE game….”

    People expect to pay for MMO’s. Oh BTW, Sony is the company offering an MMO (Free Realms)without a subscription.

    “it’s funny; the only ones whining about xbox live prices are ps3 zealouts who don’t use it. meanwhile, the tens of millions paying xbox live subscribers don’t have a problem with it”

    It’s simply amazing. You can switch “Xbox live prices” with simply “PS3″ and we come to the same conclusion.

  55. Roca.:

    “PSN, while free to the consumer, is a money drain on sony and won’t be around forever at this rate. something will have to give…. for instance; SOE just let go of 5% of their workforce… congrats; their online model just cost many fine people their careers….”

    if you only knew what ur are talking about.

    FYI,
    SCEA, SCEJ, SCEE, SOE are all independet from each other. they have their budget and what not. so what happend in SOE doesnt have anything to do with PSN, well at least you learn something today.

    “roca – btw; it’s funny you think DD aren’t impactful to bluray sales when sony is releasing Bravia TV with netflix steaming capabilities engineered within….. ”

    I have only heard a complain from a single “Indie developers”, and its understandable since indie devs usually do low money projects.

    and if you want to keep talking about Bluray vs DD, well guess what PS3 is the ONLY CONSOLE CAPABLE OF BOTH, haha! [pathetic fanboy]

    and then again you are paying $50 for a service Sony make other ppl pay for US.

  56. Happyhockum:

    Roca

    The occasional typo is one thing but you’re making no sense there at all.

    (“you are paying $50 for a service Sony make other ppl pay for US”?)

  57. Roca.:

    you pay $50 for XBL

    and Sony charges publisher instead of us.

    i think now it pretty clear? or maybe if you send me $50 you will understand that im doing to you the same M$ do to every single gold members

  58. Happyhockum:

    Get a clue Roca……or get a better job.

    I couldn’t give a b*llocks about a few pennies a day.
    The fact that you imagine it’s some enormous vital issue speaks volumes about you.

    Pennies a day.
    Bl*ody hell. The horror.

  59. Roca.:

    how many games u buy a year…those pennies could be a extra game.

    ok pennies a day, sounds like nothing right? but when ur subscribtion expires and you have to dish out another 50 bucks for something you should be getting for free. now it doesnt feel like pennies huh?

  60. CarlB:

    @phranc,

    “I wonder how much of that number is for movie downloads and doesn’t include music or other media.”

    I wonder if it includes streamed content (like say, Netflix, Sky, etc.) as well… probably not.

    “I don’t know anyone at all buying movie downloads.”

    Why bother when you can rent or stream HD instead?

    “As for the psn charge….. which would you rather have CarlB. Sony charge you or the publisher?”

    I would rather the content be available on my console than not; because when a pub decides to go to another console that doesn’t charge them hundreds of thousands of dollars to over a million dollars just for a demo instead, well, the console that requires the publisher to pay may be left behind when it comes to content.

    If it takes part of what I have already paid for the year ($38), so be it. I am already saving money with Gold with Netflix streaming over my old Netflix subscription, so I’m happy.

    @Roca,

    “DD numbers dont mean anything.

    obviosly the % of movies and games download are very very low.”

    Yes, I’m sure all those FF7′s that have been downloaded don’t mean anything to Sony and the actual number of times it was downloaded was “very very low”. Not.

    “you guys keep talking all you want but DD is far from here.”

    Maybe not where you live, but it is here in full swing. Where it is available is already making more money than disc sales alone for the same content, and that sales gap will only continue to grow in the future.

    “there are very few “retail games” for Digital Download.

    Steam, D2D, PSPGo, and GameTap all say hi again roca.

    “i know M$ is trying to compete with PSN by doing the “games on demand” thing, so far I think there are only 5 first party title available.”

    30 titles at any given time starting in a couple of weeks. They will be rotated regularly according to sales. This number will also only increase in the future, it is only gaining in momentum.

    “xbox ppl are getting mad like it is coming out of their pocket. lol… nobody is complaining but you guys”

    Whose mad? You? Not me. I’m not complaining, I just put a point out there and you guys ran crazy with it.

    @Barnabe,

    “I love the way how you guys try to justify paying for Xbox live. Honestly Sony charges the publishers, while xbox charges consumers. While you’re at it, why don’t you send M$ extra money each month if you like giving them your money so much.”

    Calm down Barn, seriously. I’m not trying to justify anything, and I don’t have to either, as you can see above I’m already saving more money with Gold than without. Otherwise, I honestly wouldn’t need it and would be perfectly happy with free XBox Live Silver.

    As I said, if it is a hardship on the pub and they want to bring quality content, I would rather have it on my console than not. Each service has it’s positives and negatives, and I wasn’t complaining, just putting out info that was already out elsewhere.

  61. SW:

    I’m with happy here. Its really nothing to write home about (the cost).

    I’d be happy to pay it if not for the fact that I’m all about free online gaming. And the principle alone is enough to make me no pay it.

    If they made it so your profile was gold only, but multiplayer was free, I’d be happy with no profile. But never going to happen due to the fact that they have to run thier own servers instead of the community :( oh well.

  62. harry sachz:

    Who wants a handjob?

  63. Roca.:

    Carlb. and comp why you keep talking about bluray vs DD

    when it should be PS3 Bluray vs 360 DVD.

    DD doesnt come in to play in this discussion because both console capable of doing DD (and they already are)

  64. CarlB:

    Roca, I’m not talking BR vs DD, I’m talking DD vs disc based distribution. BR just happens to be a disc. But if you want to go “PS3 Bluray vs 360 DVD” (sigh), 360 discs already well outsell PS3 discs regularly.

    DD comes into play in this discussion for those of us who think outside the “console warz” box and see that DD is already capturing a massive market share that was once only ruled by physical media.

  65. JofaMang:

    Physical media still rules the market share, and true saturation is at least a decade away.

    Anything else to add, file it under BS.

  66. SW:

    DD stole my wife. True story.

    *files under BS*

  67. Happyhockum:

    JofaMang

    That entirely depends on what you count as the ‘market’.

    Even so ‘legal’ downloads account for $1 billion verses Blu-ray’s $400 million.

    In addition we can see approx 14 billion downloads pointing very clearly to a vast untapped commercial market – and also to the fact that for all the complaints about the infrastructure not being ready for DD yet it is in fact happening at a vast rate right now.

    We’re just waiting on business to readjust to the new realities.

    Thems the facts, nothing BS about it.

  68. Roca.:

    “Even so ‘legal’ downloads account for $1 billion verses Blu-ray’s $400 million.”

    “legal download” seems to include alot more than just movies, which is not fair to compare it to BD sales.

    Carlb,
    DVD is not out-selling bluray. that have sold more movies than Bluray cosidering DVD is been out since 2000.

  69. phranctoast:

    Do blu ray and DVD rental come into account when factoring these numbers?

  70. Happyhockum:

    Roca

    What’s your problem?

    Blu-ray sold 40 million discs verses 2 billion lagal downloads.

    You might think that’s not a fair comparison but as CarlB has already pointed out it’s perfectly fair to compare the digitally distributed media verses Blu-ray optical media.

    How many of those billions of downloads are high def.
    Who knows but out of a total of 14 billion downloads it must be a small but significant number – surely well over 40 millions worth?

    2 billion ‘legal’ out of 14 billion in total.
    (and we all know movies are a huge number of the downloaded material nowadays broadband is so widespread).

    14 billions downloads.

    Carry on dismissing it if you must but you ought to know how ridiculous that is.

  71. Happyhockum:

    Roca

    You’re badly misinformed (ie wrong, again) about Blu-ray v DVD sales btw

    (it’s actually closed up a bit this year, we’re just waiting on the year end data to see how the recession threw a spanner in the works – at the end of its 3rd year DVD sold 98 million units, 6mths in we are told Blu-ray has sold 40 million units)

    You’re also choosing to ignore the fact that Blu-ray was deliberately launched with the PS3 (something which did not happen with DVD) which was a certain way of getting several million blu-ray players out there fast.

    Because of this the comparison is a fraud you’re just not comparing like with like.
    DVD (without the boost of being launched in a console bound to sell several millions quickly) in fact did much better, considering.

  72. Roca.:

    u like to talk alot of trash,

    can I see the links for:

    -total numbers of DD downloads
    -Total Numbers of legal DD downloads
    -Tota Number of bluray disc sold
    -total number of DVD sold in through its 3rd year
    -who’s outselling who this year or last year?
    -total of “legal HD movies download”

    please link legit sources (not everything you find on the web is true). just to see how misinfored i was. out those 6 link u might get one right.

    And again DD multimedia contents includes many things BD is just HD movies. FYI the real competition for BD is out of the horizon (HD DVD). BD is not competing with DD, as we all know many BD player come with online capabilities and HDD built in. PS3 is a bluray player, but if dont like physical disc you can download movies/music etc from ur PC and store them on ur PS3, or u can just Buy Digital HD movies on the PS Store.

    waiting on them Links, I would love to see you ur right for the first time.

  73. JofaMang:

    And you could fit more angels on the head of a pin if you gave them smaller halos, right Happy?

    BD is on a physical media path to saturation. It is not out of line with what has been expected from the start (other than the unexpected recession effect)

    DD as a REPLACEMENT for physical media is only for a small percent of people so far. DD Saturation (the point at which a media format is ubiquitous and highly profitable) is no closer than it was a year ago (although Obama’s stimulus package includes hardware upgrades to American IPs, which could help here, in theory).

    Saturation is required to replace previous formats: win a format war. If DD is truly a format war adversary to BD, it will be a stalement for a long time to come. Since they don’t really compete against eachother, it is a moot point.

    Your whole argument is weak and tainted with bitterness. Nothing new to see here, hah.

  74. phranctoast:

    Blu ray player penetration up 71%.
    to all the naysayers that simply said HD wasn’t important, blu ray will fail because HD is niche.ect…

    ttp://www.homemediamagazine.com/research/centris-blu-ray-gaming-penetration-16545

  75. Happyhockum:

    Roac/Ivan

    If you’re going to debate this stuff then at least have the courtesy to read the links already provided.

    The cnet link already given shows the legal and the total size of downloading.
    It also showed the cash and unit sales for Blu-ray in the 1st 6 mths of this year.

    Total US DVD sales in the 1st 3yrs (starting in march 1997) can be seen here -w.dvdinformation.com/News/press/CES2009yearEnd.htm

    Global DVD numbers can be found here – http://www.contentdeliveryandstorage.org/stats/stat-replication_worldwide.html

    This shows DVD selling 7.269 Billion.

    This is why the BDA’s usual BS playing with %’s is meaningless in the face of actual numbers.
    Blu-ray is a drop in the ocean.

    Look at the UK numbers.
    Blu-ray up 231%.
    Woooow.
    Then you find out that it actually means just 3 million sales and comes to just under 3% of the UK retail market.
    tp://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/retailing/article6620823.ece

    JofaMang

    My argument is based on the numbers and a refusal to swallow the BDA’s % game-playing.
    Blu-ray is a minute segment of the market.
    That’s the fact of the matter.

    Between VOD, cable/satellite TV services offering DVRs and multi-channel HD, Netflix type services and DVDs continued strong resilience only the BDA’s PR campaign seriously suggests things are going well for Blu-ray.

    phranctoast

    More % nonsense.
    Tell us the actual numbers.
    If you can actually find them my bet is that you’ll see they are tiny.

    (oh, and just as we see with PS3 owners, a lot of people that have high definition players are still buying DVD.
    This should be no big surprise seeing as only a small minority of films are out on Blu-ray – just over 1100 IIRC.
    I know PS3 owners that are very selective about what they will bother buying in high def, for a lot of films that aren’t big special effects vehicles it’s a bit pointless to pay the extra for it)

  76. Happyhockum:

    phranctoast

    Ooops, my bad, it does give some numbers.
    12 million households.

    Now, tell us all.

    Out of how many is that?

  77. Happyhockum:

    …..and note that even with the current minority that own HD TVs 50.5 million they don’t even hit 25%.

  78. kev:

    jofa – no..bluray is a format on its way to obscurity…not saturation…. but feel free to continue the predictions… you guys have failed at every single one of yours in the past…why stop now? lmao…

  79. phranctoast:

    I’ll let time prove me right, like what happened when I used to argue with HDDVD fanboys about the format war. They sure are quiet now.

    I believe the BR penetration is somewhere near 10%-12% of US households.

  80. Roca.:

    “…..and note that even with the current minority that own HD TVs 50.5 million they don’t even hit 25%.”

    Happy be smart like phranctoast and post ur source…

    oh yeah im still waiting on the others too. i hope u can find something this year, if not there is always next year.

  81. Roca.:

    and the fact is Bluray is the only format for HD Movies and Bluray is here to stay you like it or not.

    Kev and Happy, ur comments are just desperate fanboism claims without any source to back it up.

    keep the the trash coming.

  82. phranctoast:

    sigh…

    12 million is close to 25% of the 50 million Roca. He used my source.

    So about half of the US has a HDTV, with about 1/10 americans having blu ray player. Not too shabby if you ask me.

  83. Happyhockum:

    Roca

    Brains at work again, huh?

    What exactly are you waiting on now?

    Seems like the DVD trade groups’ US & global numbers just aren’t enough huh?
    Judging by the sort of link you usually post maybe a few blog opinions would be considered credible (to you).
    LOL

    Are you now going to try and tell us that Blu-ray is anything but a drop in the ocean compared to 7.26 billion?

    Blu-ray is in fact not the only format for HD movies.

    HD TV is an obvious source (coupled with a DVR and a decent selection of HD channels it is in fact undoubtedly one of the leading means for consumers to gain HD content.

    Downloading too is an excellent source.
    You can either get straight rips of every Blu-ray movie out right now or an encode varying in size between 4.3gb – 16gb.
    These include a DTS or DD 5.1 audio track and can be either 720p or 1080p (1080p is usually at least 8.5gb).
    The quality is usually superb too (provided you get it from an encoder who knows what they are doing).

    You have, in fact, no grounds for saying Blu-ray is here to stay at all.
    It certainly has failed in it’s original objective at replacing DVD as the dominant video format (it is growing far too slowly).
    It’s just your own fanboyism showing.

    phranctoast

    As a small niche format you’re probably right, it’s not so bad.
    In it’s original objective of replacing DVD it’s a disaster.
    Compounded by the unforeseen disaster of the global recession.

    The Samsung fellow was probably right.
    Blu-ray probably has about 5yrs left (and this was said almost a year ago).

  84. Happyhockum:

    Here’s the Andy Griffiths (of Samsung) interview link –

    w.pocket-lint.com/news/news.phtml/17399/samsung-blu-ray-5-years-left.phtml

  85. Roca.:

    thats all you got. a stupid interviw…i want numbers happy.

    “Blu-ray probably has about 5yrs left”

    well at least it lasted more then ur HD DVD i will say money well spent. how long did the original Xbox lasted?

    bring me them links or keep the trash coming.

    again happy/kev

    -total numbers of DD downloads
    -Total Numbers of legal DD downloads
    -Tota Number of bluray disc sold
    -total number of DVD sold in through its 3rd year
    -who’s outselling who this year or last year?
    -total of “legal HD movies download”

    ^^^need those links. or did you make those numbers up (got cought on his own bullshit)

    BTW, Bluray is the only “physical HD format”

  86. Happyhockum:

    Roca

    What’s HD DVD got to do with it (other than giving me and about 1 million lucky owners a stack of excellent HD movies for next to nothing)?

    You got the total DD downloads in the cnet link
    You got the legal download number in the cent link
    You got the 6 month Blu-ray number in the cnet link.

    The cnet link.

    phranctoast gave it earlier so maybe you’ll accept it wasn’t just made up.

    Perhaps people like the FT and the trade are suspect to you?

    I just gave the DVD sales number in the DVD information link.

    I’ve given last years Blu-ray link before but here it is again – w.videobusiness.com/article/CA6627437.html?nid=3511

    The specifics of how many of the 14 billion downloads were HD movies is no avialable, but that’s hardly the point.

    You can try and split hairs if you like but if it makes you feel better we can pretend it’s only 1% of the total number downloaded.
    140,000.
    Or almost 4 times the number of Blu-ray sales, if you like.
    Or how about I be generous and say it’s only 0.5% of the total.
    70,000.
    Or nearly double Blu-ray’s performance to date this year.

    Whatever.
    Obviously you’re trolling on it now.

    The thing is Roca, no-one cares that “Blu-ray is the only physical format”.

    It’s only a minority of people that collect movies to watch over and over anyways.

  87. Happyhockum:

    Roca.:
    “thats all you got. a stupid interviw…i want numbers happy”

    An interview with a senior Samsung exec counts as nothing in your world, eh?

    I’ve given you plenty of stats, trade stats no less.

    You’re being very boring now with your obvious trolling on this.

  88. CarlB:

    roca,

    “DVD is not out-selling bluray. that have sold more movies than Bluray cosidering DVD is been out since 2000.”

    I never said it was, I just answered your specific post about how the conversation “should be PS3 Bluray vs 360 DVD”. In that case, yes “360 DVD” (i.e. games) is regularly outselling “PS3 Bluray” (i.e. games).

    Even so, I would be interested to see the “legitimate” link you used to support your statement above that Blu-ray is now outselling DVD. Thank you.

  89. Happyhockum:

    …..and DVD has outsold Blu-ray anyways.

    Blu-ray will not end the year selling 98 million units as DVD did in it’s 3rd year (well actuallyy 2.5 year seeing as it missed out on the 1st 2 quarters of 1997)

    w.dvdinformation.com/News/press/CES2009yearEnd.htm

  90. Roca.:

    CarlB when I say BD vs DVD I never said “salewise”
    i was just saying which is a better gaming format. period

  91. Happyhockum:

    Roca

    Now that we have games via digi distrib who cares what the disc format is?

    Xbox is about to take a big leap in hard drive space and the aim is plainly to run with DD for those of us with the connection & inclination to get into it (somethign which can only grow and grow in the coming years).

    Really, who cares about the discs anymore, what for?
    They’re limited and rather redundant now.

    The Blu-ray disc is merely the container, in itself it offers nothing (and in fact is slower at data transfer than a SATA hard drive……bearing in mind that PS3 does not save whole games to the HDD only up to 5gbs).

  92. Roca.:

    haha…………………..no worth reading

  93. Happyhockum:

    Roca,
    unfortunately for you your typical lame response is only what was fully expected from you.

    You acted like a typical fanboy troll looking for every link going and proof of every comment made (several times even when the link was pointed out) and then when you finally run out of room you laugh it all off as not worth a look when you end up being spoon fed everything.

    Sad.

    S’ok.
    Stay an ignorant fanboy if you must.
    You know the saying, leading horses to water and all that.

  94. CarlB:

    Roca,

    “DVD is not out-selling bluray”

    Still waiting for that link roca.

  95. Happyhockum:

    CarlB

    He hasn’t got one……well, nothing but a blog comment or a lying BDA/Sony site.

    I’ve given you the trade’s data – w.dvdinformation.com/News/press/CES2009yearEnd.htm

    Bear in mind DVD missed the 1st & 2nd quarter of its first year (1997) and so the 3rd year number (98 million) is really only for 2.5yrs.
    A full 3 yrs takes DVDs sales number to 135.2 million.
    With Blu-ray hitting 40 million units at 6mths into its 3rd year not only does it stand zero chance of matching DVDs 98million but the idea that it is going to exceed 135.2 million is laughable (this despite the in-built boost PS3 has given the format – which DVD did not get until the very end of it’s 3rd yr with the PS2 Japanese lauch in Mar 2000 & half way through its 4th year with the US PS2 launch).

    It’s all just drop in the ocean stuff, again.

  96. Roca.:

    well…guess what, DVD is a thing of the Past for me, so I can care less about DVD sales in the late 90s.

    and again you can bring all the numbers you want. and talk about DD all day. but that wont change that BD is the only PHYSICAL HD FORMAT out right now. sorry but u failed again.

    Desperate times calls for desperate 90′s claims

  97. phranctoast:

    Roca,

    didn’t you ask for dvd sales for their third year?

    Anyway.
    The blu ray Watchmen took 36% of the market. A pretty awesome feet considering how many more dvd players exist as opposed to blu ray.

  98. phranctoast:

    *feat*

  99. CarlB:

    “Physical media still rules the market share, and true saturation is at least a decade away.”

    Wow, that’s actually not that far away Jofa, and it puts us square in the the middle or at the beginning of the next gen. Cool.

    @roca,

    “the only PHYSICAL HD FORMAT out right now.”

    The problem is “PHYSICAL FORMATS” HD or otherwise are already losing market share to HD downloads and streaming, and this trend isn’t likely to slow.

    Why invest several hundred, or even thousands of dollars/pounds now in an overpriced DRM BR disc now when you can download it, copy it, and or redownload it to your SD card, PMP, external hard drive, thumbdrive, cellphone, etc anytime you want?

    Unless you are thinking with a “90′s” mindset?

  100. Happyhockum:

    Roca

    No-one cares if you pretend not to care.

    You made a big deal making false claims and you got shown up as being full of it.

    The only one who “failed” here was you.

    ……and Blu-ray is not in fact the only disc based physical format.
    In Japan they are now releasing HD movies on SD cards (which offer faster data transfer speeds – higher bit-rates – and within the next 2yrs will be up to 2tb in size, far far bigger than any possible old fashioned optical Blu-ray disc).

    Blu-ray’s growth is lamentably slow despite the leg-up they though putting it into the PS3 would give it.
    Slower than DVDs – and this in a market that is well used to disc based video media (another advantage DVD did not have).

    Like the Samsung guy said, it’s a short-life niche product.

    Personally I can’t wait for it to go belly up and I will then buy a lot more high definition discs for a next to nothing.

  101. Happyhockum:

    phranctoast

    You have to be careful of the Videoscan numbers.

    36% is a good turn-out but it is unlikely to be sustained – and the BDA are careful never to release 3mth, 6th or 1yr sales.
    This builds in a bias towards Blu-ray as it is most likely to sell best on release (given the current nature of the early adopting Blu-ray market).

    DVD on the otherhand is a mature market and will see the bulk of its sales later as prices fall.

    (*for instance Best Buy this week is lowering the price of Watchmen to $9.99 while the Blu-ray there is $24.95)

  102. Roca.:

    HAPPY,

    first of all you failed again, because i never made any claims. i just asked for 6 links…and you game me one. 1 out 6 = 0.16% of all ur claims was true.

    SD card is still consider DD, hint** where are you getting the movie from? somebody have to download it from some where right? or they just going to sell you 1tb SD card with just one HD movie? in order to fill it up, somebody has to transfer the “Digital HD movies” to the SD card.

    Carlb.

    “The problem is “PHYSICAL FORMATS” HD or otherwise are already losing market share to HD downloads and streaming, and this trend isn’t likely to slow.”

    I totally agree with you, but what im trying to say is that BD won the physical HD format war. they are not compiting against DD, and a whole different market. some ppl like to actually own a physical copy and resell it and get at least something for it.

    Also I dont see DD taking off at its full potential anytime soon, especially not for HD stuff. ISP are running out of public/private IPs. and they are also afraid of a MAssive Bandwith crash. so for it to reach its full potential, ISP would have to handle all the traffic of HD downloads at once…and like JOFA said we are not there yet.

  103. Happyhockum:

    Roca

    If you’re too lazy or such a moron as to not see that most of those questions you put were answered by the cnet link that’s actually your own laughable failure.

    Go bore someone else with your stupidity and trolling.

  104. Happyhockum:

    Oh and actually once again you prove how you’re only too happy to pronounce on a subject you so obviouslt know nothing about.

    The Japanese movie on SD card selling I mentioned is not about DD.
    Disney in Japan is producing cards with the film in HD on them.

    The 2th card I will be interested in will be about DD.
    So what?
    Like an optical disc it’s just the container (albeit with far higher bit-rate/data transfer speeds).

  105. Roca.:

    why would you need to data transfer.

    BD player lenses read the Disc not and they dont transfer anything.

    again ur showing how desperate u are. at least follow the steps of ur buddy carlb and make some sense.

    also, do you live in JP, the shut ur mouth up. because JAPAN has alot more things than the US. they still make Dreamcast game in JAPAN. can you say the same here in the US or UK.

    cnet…come on dont make waste my time on that stupid website..

    1 out 6 Happy = 0.16% true and 99.84% bullshit

  106. Happyhockum:

    Roca

    Go away and learn about the subject before asking such laughably idiotic questions.

    Bit-rate (data transfer speeds) are one of the key specs in relation to the quality of image and audio produced.

    Your ignorance is now going well past funny and just becoming slightly embarrassing.

    What has living in Japan got to do with anything?
    Are they incapable of giving us a concrete example of a new tech opening up in your funny little world?

    S’funny that the cnet link is now no good yet it was the one originally trumpeting that ’91% increase’ .

    You’re also making yourself look like an a$$hole brat by ignoring the trade sites and data I linked to.

    Try again if you like but instead of making to total idiot of yourself try engaging your brain first, eh?

  107. Roca.:

    they didnt show anything of what i asked for.

    so what are you saying…lets see how smart gay ppl like are.

    SD card vs Bluray…..hahaha dont make me laugh. is that all you got.

    and if you wanna go that way. my PS3 can Play Bluray dics, SD cards also, memory stics, USB drive and stream movies of the internet browser.

    does you xbox do that, uhmmm im 100% sure that it doesnt do any of that. (not 0.16% lol)

    one more thing, what in world uses SD cards anymore. HDTV has a bunch of USB ports, not a single SD slot. HD PLAYER/Bluray players doesnt have SD card slot. so again u prove nothing.

    Whos looking like at asshole brat now? (by cursing you just showing ur frustration and desperation)

    desperate times call for desperate xbot cursing

  108. kev:

    happy – don’t waste your time with ROCA/IVAN PSP.

    you’ve already proven he knows nothing about the company and system he worships.

    he can’t look any dumber than he’s made himself look in his posts. he will NEVER admit reality…and why should he? fantasy is so much kinder to the ps3 fanboys….

  109. Happyhockum:

    Roca

    F*ck off.

    I’m not in the slightest bit “frustrated” (even if your trolling motivation couldn’t be more clear) but you’re not even capable of consistent debate.

    Like all juvenile trolls as soon as one issue is answered you rush to another.
    A$$hole brat indeed.

    The Japan thing was especially funny.
    In PS3 land it’s vital but here it’s worthless.

    Your SD card idea is equally dumb & laughably worthless give a USB card reader is the simplest bit of kit out.

    Why would I need a game console (the last bit of the a/v kit I’ve bought) to do anything my HTPC does?
    Or my Blu-ray stand-alone?
    Or my DVD stand-alone?
    Or my Xbox?

    “Gay”…..yeah right, your gay obsession is showing.
    Don’t worry your secrets safe.

    LOL

  110. Roca.:

    so many stand alone…is ur dildo a stand alone or does it come with Disney SD card reader?

    ohh you forgot ur SD card player stand alone.

    by the Way, the SD card thing was ur idea.

    “Why would I need a game console to do anything my HTPC does”

    and now u stated that PS3 alot of thing of what ur HTPC does….

    well at least it does somethings ans ur 360 does none.

    I figured out what ur nick name means (Happy Cock Suker).

    for got to ask you something..has SD card HD movies business taking off yet? is it winning HD format war?

    Well Happy Cock Sucker im off this topic. u have nothing to prove with ur 0.16 statements and bluray is not going anywhere no matter what u say,

    good luck for the gay due Happy/kev

  111. Happyhockum:

    Pathetic. Really really pathetic.

  112. CarlB:

    “I totally agree with you, but what im trying to say is that BD won the physical HD format war. they are not compiting against DD, and a whole different market.”

    BD won the physical format war against HDDVD, yes. But BD sales are still competing for market share against DVD, DD, streaming, and rentals, and losing. All of which DVD did not have to compete against when it first came on the scene. That it is still doing well is commendable, but I would venture to say BD is just another temporary format that will be replaced in the near future (5-10 years) unless something drastic happens.

    There is a very good chance that it will not do as well or last as long as DVD has before the next format, be it SD or even DVD9′s successor. If they opened up the DRM I can see them selling much more, but I doubt this will happen.

    I would say most people look at the next 1-3 years as “long term” and don’t see beyond that, whereas I see anything within the next decade as “short term” for the purposes of this discussion. This may be where some of the mix up is coming from.

    I think there is about a 50/50 chance of BD being the dominant physical format ten years from now, and it pretty much depends on what the majority of studios back. I would imagine that if a cheaper solution comes about through SD in the next 2-5 years that can handle the same file size, it would be a lot cheaper for studios to distribute and consumers to buy, and the same goes for the reader (or “player”, if you prefer).

    The physical size hasn’t been a problem in game distribution for handhelds like the DS (the dominant console this gen), so I think it would be rather easy to transfer that over to movies (once the price was cheaper than BR, again, perhaps 2-5 years). Sony was wise to put an SD card reader into their console, and it would be relatively easy for Microsoft to add one to a future sku (readers don’t cost much) if the format took off.

    In any case, I think we both can agree that BD is a temporary physical format, even if it is a decade “temporary”, and it will eventually be replaced with something better. However, DD is not temporary, and has more flexibility, and is gaining steam to be the dominant distribution within a decade or more (for developed countries w/proper and affordable internet connections).

    I might purchase a PS3 when the price drops, and if I get it, I will continue to rent movies through Netflix/elsewhere as I have in the past, but I certainly won’t blow my money on BR discs when they are already paving the way for 1080p online distribution and streaming.

  113. kev:

    you know…people like Roca is why i don’t buy a ps3 or use PSN…who wants to be associated with this type of uselessness…..?

    Happy – let it go, dude…. Roca/IVAN is a waste of bandwidth…. everyone has already broken this code… :)

  114. Happyhockum:

    kev

    You’re right. ;)

    CarlB

    There’s already a format which is going to replace physical media for the mass-market (most of whom are not into ‘collecting’ anyways).

    It’s appearing on HD TVs and (ironically all of the latest wave of Blu-ray players as well as DVD players).
    A network connection (in addition to USB ports).

    Even Sony launched a downloading service for their Bravia owners.

  115. CarlB:

    Happy,

    I thought we already mentioned this, and that Sony and Microsoft had already implemented it via PSN and XBL?

    In any case for well into two to three decades from now, there will still be those in countries who cannot afford or do not have internet that will have no choice but physical media, albeit DVD, BR, SD, etc.. DVD was pretty prevalent in Iraq, for instance.

    I’m also pretty sure that dd (barring any major natural/manmade disaster) will be dominant within the near future (a decade or so). Streaming or downloaded.

  116. Happyhockum:

    We’re getting the Sky player in the UK in a couple of months (afaik it’ll be when the new dashboard is introduced).

    I know that Bravia TVs got Netflix recently (although no mention was made of PS3 getting a similar feature).

    I don’t know if PS3 has any sort of free TV, sport or movie streaming.

    You’re right, physical media will continue to be relevant in large parts of the developing world.
    Having said that, given the slow take-up of Blu-ray in the most developed world, I doubt we’ll see any significant BD penetration there in the next 5 – 10yrs.

    There’s also the huge chunk of the world’s population, China, who will never have Blu-ray anyways to take into account.
    China will be using a tech related to HD DVD all to themselves …..and presumably this will ‘leak’ to their surrounding Asian neighbours – to that relatively small minority of people that have high def at all.

    DVDs big thing was it got very cheap fast (and not just in terms of hardware but also disc production, authoring and licencing costs).
    Blu-ray isn’t and is in fact quite expensive in terms of production licencing and costs.

  117. Roca.:

    ahhhhhh just drop it, Carlb is the only one who see both sides of this issue.

    some ppl rent movies, other stream them, other ripped the, and there are always ppl that buys them…..so no real winner.

    Kev, even though I hate the community of XBL members that wouldnt stop me from getting one. if I hold off on a system because of that, the REAL loser is me who wont be getting some of the exclusive for that system.

    Being a fanboy doesnt pay off.

    Carlb…said it best. even if he gets a PS3 he doesnt have to support BD. he will alaways rent/strean thats his format of choice. I dont even support BD…I rent/download most of my movies. but then they are a few that i Just have to own (I have 300 on DVD, BD and ripped in my PC HDD).

    well, you guys can keep arguing against each other.

  118. Happyhockum:

    Roca

    You already showed what you are all about in this thread.
    You’re not here to discuss or swap info back and forth.

    (and once again you give yourself and your motivation away.
    Actually CarlB and I were not arguing.
    You might like to try it sometime.)

  119. CarlB:

    We all have our moments. I think most of the time we just misinterpret each other, what we are saying, or why we are saying it.

    Back to the discussion, I didn’t know about China and the HDDVD thing.

    Do you have any more word on the successor to DVD9 Happy?

  120. Happyhockum:

    Here’s some more info on the Chinese high def situation (note that Blu-ray is there but it’s currently about $30 v $7.50 for movies).

    p://formatwarcentral.com/2009/07/24/cbhd-leads-marketshare-over-blu-ray-in-china/

    DVD9 successor?
    Which one? :)

  121. CarlB:

    Also, I haven’t cross-checked this yet, but it seems to be legit and supports roca’s earlier statement about BD outselling DVD:

    “In a survey by the Digital Entertainment Group, HDTV owners preferred discs over video streaming and downloads by nearly 10 to 1. Nearly 50 million Blu-ray discs have been sold worldwide, with Blu-ray’s growth outpacing DVDs by almost 10 million discs at the same point in its lifespan.”

    thestreet.com/story/10541539/1/so-over-it-blu-ray-rips-off-consumers.html?cm_ven=GOOGLEFI

  122. CarlB:

    also (summary):

    “it still accounts for only 8% to 15% of weekly video sales… (but) In the time it’s going to take Blu-ray to become a mature business and get the penetration it wants, we’re already going to be talking about when we’re going to be able to stream all the movies we want whenever we want to see them… Blu-ray hasn’t failed, but it’s not the blockbuster Sony had hoped for… There’s been a lot of upfront investment put into it, and it’s hard to get people to just scrap it… expecting consumers to ignore the rapidly advancing technology right on their doorstep is a stretch even by Hollywood standards. “

  123. CarlB:

    another interesting link for USB drives being sold with movies them later this year:

    Anotherhighdefdigest.com/news/show/USB/Industry_Trends/Sonic_Solutions/Wildvine/Movies_To_Be_Sold_On_USB_Drives_This_Holiday_Season/3122

    “In what appears to be an effort to meet with consumer demand for digital copies while keeping retail stores in the loop, Sonic Solutions and Wildvine have announced plans to release movies on USB drives. Entitled CinemaNow USB Movie Drives, the dongles will provide high quality playback while offering convenience to the customer… we can expect to see them ready this holiday season.”

  124. JofaMang:

    USB drives will always be cost prohibitive. This couldn’t be anything but a high buck gimmick.

  125. CarlB:

    “Always”? Really? I’d have to disagree considering the rate it has managed to fall in price and increase in storage. The stand alone player (for those who don’t have laptops/desktops?) would certainly be less expensive than a blu-ray or even dvd is currently. They are already building the adapters/usb media readers into tv’s.

    Here’s a standalone that already plays divx and can mount to the side of your tv for only $22:

    dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.10756

    USB thumbdrive SD adapters are out and already very inexpensive. SD is also already a fraction of the size and weight of discs (shelf space with case would also take up only a fraction), without the necessity for an optical drive. Plus nothing is currently faster than flash.

    Flash (USB/SD/SDHC/SDXC) is certainly looking very enticing when looking at what is to come in the next decade.

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