First party studios excel on PS3 because of synergy with other developers
Everyone by now knows that the PS3 is a tough machine to code on. It could be as difficult as attempting to code in assembly, which is pretty insane. There is a good amount of third-party software or evidence showing how some studios have miserably failed to harness the power of the PS3. However, first-party studios seem to be running circles around third-party studios. The secret may lie in inter-studio synergy.
The PS3 is a pain to develop on. Many developers have made this point absolutely crystal clear. The PS3 actually forces you to develop in a new and different way that you may not be used to. This has caused some studios to release shoddy software for the PS3 compared to the PC and Xbox 360 versions.
However, most third party studios have come a long way as many are now using the PS3 as the lead platform to develop games on rather then the other way around. Today, most new games are on par across platforms now. Apparently, its easier to first develop on the PS3 utilizing the SPUs (core-processors) then bringing it together to port over to the Xbox 360 rather than trying to split up Xbox 360 code to port over to the PS3.
Although, the primary studios that seem to be really pushing the PS3 are the first party studios such as Insomniac, Naughty Dog and Guerilla Games. Insomniac is known for its insanely massive online modes in Resistance 2 and Pixar-like graphics in Ratchet & Clank. Naughty Dog the developers of Uncharted 2 is responsible for what is arguably called the best looking game ever. Guerilla Games, the studio behind Killzone 2 received similar praise for pushing the envelope on presentation and graphics as well.
According to a recent interview with Eurogamer, Justin Richmond of Naughty Dog revealed why the studio is able to push the PS3 like none other. Richmond talked about Naughty Dog’s close relationships with other studios including Sony first-party and even third-party developers. Apparently, Naughty Dog, Sony Santa Monica, Insomniac and even Infinity Ward get together to play Dodgeball.
Richmond also indicated that Guerrilla Games came over and gave Naughty Dog some tech and vice versa as well. He also has lunch with Warren, a designer for Sony Santa Monica (God of War) every other week and they hang out with Infinity Ward quite a bit it seems. Its interesting to see that Infinity Ward has a close-knit relationship with Naughty Dog as the studio’s games show it. If you recall, Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare ran super-fine on the PS3 despite launching shortly after the PS3 first came out. It looks like if Valve’s Gabe Newell ever wanted to learn something new, he should play Dodgeball with Naughty Dog.
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October 18th, 2009
First party studios are just more talented. And Killzone 2 was also praise for the graphics and online play mostly for both. And yeah UNCHARTED series was graphics now online too and story and voice acting and everything else. And Ratchet & Clank too for perfection in Pixar’s style graphics but better. Insomniac Games has also been praise for making Resistance 1 & 2 with so many players online with no lag or cheaters just pure awesomeness. And Sucker Punch Productions also has been praise a lot for inFAMOUS being so damn cool. A lot third party studios make awesome PS3 games only and multi-plaform. The PS3 is way ahead of the Xbox 360 in power and ability to get great must have exclusives.
Is really helpful and fun how Sony Computer Entertainment gets all the first second and third party developers together to exchange ideas and technologies. I wish Microsoft would do this too and i wish they created games. Tired of Halo already.
October 18th, 2009
The Dodge ball team is for Class A developers…Gabe a class L (L for Lazy) developer
October 18th, 2009
There also class I for Infinity Ward who like to shaft the PC market…
Yes I’m a whiney PC guy right now…
October 18th, 2009
First party studios are willing to take a huge financial hit for the greater good.
Other studios don’t care if Sony survives.
PC RULEZ OF EVER!
October 18th, 2009
me_:
That’s bullshit everyone cares especially third party studios. Because less consoles means less money for them especially if the console is the most powerful one PS3. And PC is garbage for games.
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October 18th, 2009
Sony are the best when of comes to 1st party studios they have so many great studios then look at microsoft all they have is RARE and liongate studios who make shit games all microsoft does is buy timed exclusives and exclusive DLC which fucks out the consumer
October 18th, 2009
RobertCarr316:
You my friend are correct, Sony has more studios then Microsoft and Nintendo combine. Microsoft is better off by buying video game developers instead of paying for timed exclusive DLC and games it shows weakness. And yeah most gaming studios own by Microsoft are just pathetic Nintendo has more talented developers then they do. Sony is gaming, that’s why i say that and will always stick and be loyal to their PlayStation brand. I only buy games develop or publish by Sony Computer Entertainment.
Go here if you want to see my exclusive PLAYSTATION 3 slide show. home.earthlink.net/~ivan-playstation/id33.html
October 18th, 2009
Well, it is safe to say that Sony has the best first-party games. Nintendo will keep on giving us Wii (Insert novelty name here), and Microsoft can keep on buying up 3rd party games to be exclusive, but I’ll just stick to Sony (no matter how poor their marketing is, I do see a lot of Uncharted 2 commercials on the web, in theaters too). I wonder if Nintendo’s Wii novelty will wear off, and Microsoft’s share holders being pissed that they actually spent $50 million dollars on something that would be on their systems anyways, just so it doesn’t go to Sony?
They’re smarter than that, though. I’d like to see what gaming has in store after the large burst of PS3 games that were announced 4 years ago, finally coming out. I hope that they have more than Natal up their sleeves.
October 18th, 2009
Seriously guys, this is a simple case of economics. Sure naughty dog and guerilla have some real talent in their team, but they also have the luxury of a blank cheque from Sony do develop the best they can. Sony treat these games not just as game investments like EA etc, but as promotional tools for their console (which, incidentally, is also why these games seem to take forever to come out – Sony gain just as much from the hype around the game as the released game, if not more – haze, anyone?)MS’s approach is equally as sound. Instead of investing huge amounts of money in developing games and all the associated costs of owning a studio they simply pay someone else to do it for them. Whether this is a better approach than Sony’s ownership model will only really show itself in a few years. Personally I think it is a little short sighted of MS, but it seems to be working for the moment. As for Valve refusing to develop for the PS3, we have no idea what it costs them to develop for that platform, and how that compares with their estimated revenue (especially considering the poor sales track record PS3 games have at the moment). If they believe that the PS3 is simply not cost effective for them, then it makes no sense to develop for it. End of story.
October 18th, 2009
Haze was not a Sony game.
Haze was develop by Free Radical and Published by Ubisoft. Free Radical were good making FPS, their previous work was Time Splitter for the PS2
October 18th, 2009
Liongate studios huh? And Ivan seconded you? Talk about the blind leading the blind. It’s actually Lionhead studios.
I am still yet to play Uncharted 2. I really hope that it matches the hype that everyone is giving it, because similar hype was given to games such as Killzone 2 and it really did fall short of my expectations.
October 18th, 2009
Anyone else notice that RobertCarr316 has an awfully similar writing style to Ivan/Roca?
October 18th, 2009
” I really hope that it matches the hype that everyone is giving it, because similar hype was given to games such as Killzone 2 and it really did fall short of my expectations”
it fell short of your expectation bc ur a troll
the game was hyped up for its graphics and it delivered…unless you can find a better looking FPS..
October 18th, 2009
Crysis at full spec maybe…at least its more colourful.
October 18th, 2009
“unless you can find a better looking FPS..”
Any FPS released on the PC in the last 3 years.
October 18th, 2009
me_
let me be more clear…
>>unless you can find a better looking FPS on the 360 or even on the PS3.
October 18th, 2009
harry sachz:
“Anyone else notice that RobertCarr316 has an awfully similar writing style to Ivan/Roca?”
What are getting to? You write like all Xbots too so…
Roca.:
Killzone 2 in graphics cannot be rivaled is too unreal.
Rimmer:
Electronic Arts is trash full of lowered rated hyped game not selling that good anymore. As for Valve they just stupid period.
me_:
PC is a fucking JOKE.
Sony is all gaming. They are not here to play games they are here to wage WAR on all things electronic and gaming.
home.earthlink.net/~ivan-playstation/
October 18th, 2009
EA may have a dubious games roster, but they are still a lot more successful than all of sony’s first party developers combined. With regards to Valve, what exactly makes them so “stupid”?
And whilst Killzone 2 graphics are pretty good, they were already surpassed by crysis on the PC a couple of years prior, and Wardevil (PS3 / 360) appears to put it in the shade as well. The PC is still the most advanced and powerful gaming device on the planet – Period.
October 18th, 2009
Rimmer:
EA is crap LMFAO. Valve is just letting money go away by sticking the least superior console. Crysis LoL sure. You need a beast to run that garbage. At what cost is the most advanced? Also is the most problematic for gamers. Sony has the best games period fact.
October 18th, 2009
EA only got Mass Effect, Fifa and Madden…other than that…I dont think they can keep up. not even their Crysis sold well (because you need a freaking super comp. at that time)
we are talking about Graphics on a home console..but you are right, PC might be the “most advance and powerfull” gaming device but its also the gaming deviced with the most risk of getting their games pirate…and why so many gamers choose to play CoD and L4D on a home console instead of PC (which the games are cheaper)
and dont keep ur hopes up on Wardevil..if you didnt know that game was a Original Xbox game and it seem that is going the “Too Human” way
October 19th, 2009
“Crysis LoL sure. You need a beast to run that garbage. At what cost is the most advanced?”
$1 is the going rate for a PS3 equivalent graphics in a PC
http://catalog.ebay.com/BFG-Technologies-NVIDIA-GeForce-7800-GT-256-MB-BFGR78256GTOC-/73853463?_fifpts=1&_pcatid=511&_refkw=geforce+7800&_trksid=p3286.c0.m271
October 19th, 2009
“it fell short of your expectation bc ur a troll”
Actually I believe I gave the game a fair assessment. I turned the game on hoping to be blown away by something new. Unfortunately after the graphics wore off I can’t say I was overly impressed? Although I did get a giggle of having to have my character crank his neck up to talk to people. It’s great that they let leprechauns in the Army in the future.
October 19th, 2009
me_:
Why do you cared so much?
I will finally get to play:
Resistance: Retribution
MotorStorm: Artic Edge
Gran Turismo PSP
If everything goes okay in this new deal I’m making i will add TV Shows, Movies, Software and PSX/PSP Games to my website. Everything converted from the main source by me can’t wait. If anyone here fines a PS3 for $100 or less with disk read error or any other problem besides YLOD let me know i will buy it.
October 19th, 2009
@ Ivan,
Have you checked Ebay? I looked for a PS3 on there a few weeks back and nearly half of the ones being sold were either YloD or broken drives. You might be able to pick one up on the cheap.
October 19th, 2009
harry sachz:
I was there for like 2 hours getting outbid. I always use Buy it Now. I’m currently Targeting a lot of Xbox 1 modded in every way i want to buy because the way they are painted is just too nice. I said no YLOD i cannot fix that myself. I’m also thinking of buying RROD Xbox 360.
Wow my obsession with gaming is beyond anyone Else’s. I added my website to Google Adsense, Adwords and Local Business Lol.
October 19th, 2009
you have 2 PS3, why would you need another one?
October 19th, 2009
@ ALL YOU XBOTS
“There will be a shock for Xbox 360 owners next week when Microsoft offers a system update, unauthorized storage devices will no longer work. Major Nelson advises that if you have any data such as your profile or saved games, then you might want to back it up.
Just make certain that you save this data to an authorized Xbox 360 storage device, if you do not take this advice and stick with your unauthorized Memory Unit once you have downloaded the update, then you will not be able to gain access to that data. This certainly has many Xbox 360 gamers angry, and you can understand why. It is no secret that these unauthorized storage devices are a cheaper option, why would anyone want to pay the ridiculous prices of an authorized unit”
I hope you like the update
October 19th, 2009
Wow. Bend over and take it. lol
October 19th, 2009
They must be talking to arcade owners. No problem for the majority. But that does suck. But really if it was your machine wouldn’t you want a cut off someone making perpetuals for your machine illegally.
October 19th, 2009
thats an update for all model…everyone using any memory device not made by M$ will see that it will not work anymore.
October 19th, 2009
“But really if it was your machine wouldn’t you want a cut off someone making perpetuals for your machine illegally.”
3rd party add-ons and pheripheral are totally legal.
October 19th, 2009
Ok so I got an update about the 360. My girl’s roommates 360 was out of warranty, so they are keeping the 360 that was given to me. Indian givers!
She hinted that she might be getting one for Xmas, so I might eventually get it back.
October 19th, 2009
Are they third party peripherals, or just normal HDD’s that the public modified to work with the 360?
Then it wouldn’t be screwing the third party but your own fanbase.
It could also affect people that have other 360’s other than the arcade. Some people may have upgraded to a larger HDD and not wanted to pay the MS prices.
I think they should leave these people alone. If its someone making a profit thats one thing. These people are tying to save on MS’s ridiculous fees.
October 19th, 2009
@me_
“$1 is the going rate for a PS3 equivalent graphics in a PC”
The PS3 doesn’t have a piece of shit OS running in the background hogging the memory.
At the time Crysis came out I don’t think you could get those graphic cards for $1.
Think about it. Top of the line cards run you $500-$600 at any given time.
October 19th, 2009
ncaissie,
dont bother with them…when their 360 cant keep up with the PS3 standards, they quickly turn to PC to save their day.
Good Luck playing U2, KZ2, GT5, or GoW3 on a PC
October 19th, 2009
MS is not blocking third party media. They are blocking unlicensed third party media.
There is a big difference.
I’m sure companies like Mad Catz are licensed to make the accessories.
There are targeting people moding and putting just any HDD in and the cheap Korean made accessories.
October 19th, 2009
How funny would it be if Infinity Wards friendship with Naughty Dog influences them them to leave Activision (like they left EA) and form another studio for PS3 exclusives.
COD will go the way of the Medal of Honor franchise with Treyach at the helm.
October 19th, 2009
I didn’t realize any third party companies made 360 HDD’s. I thought only MS made those.
October 19th, 2009
Phranc is right…only M$ makes 360 HDD. im not sure what they mean by “unauthorized storage devices”
October 19th, 2009
I think people mod their own HDD’s to work with the 360. Makes sense if you have the knowledge to do something like that.
It sounds to me that MS is just pissed that a very few select chose not to pay their exorbitant prices.
October 19th, 2009
If any studio is going to leave a publisher to make PS3 exclusive games, I’d want it to be Ubisoft Montpellier…then we might actually get Beyond Good & Evil 2
October 19th, 2009
“unauthorized storage devices”
Could mean more than HDD. Does the 360 have memory cards or does it use usb memory only? And is their licensed usb sticks?
October 19th, 2009
USB ports and Memory Cards.
but again…only M$ makes 360 HDD and memory cards.
could it mean external HDD?
October 19th, 2009
Roca
“Licensed” 3rd party add-ons and pheripheral are totally legal
October 19th, 2009
CAD is on the money here.
Its only the unlicensed stuff.
From now on (or until i get bored) ill be ending each post with :
FUCK INFINTY WARD.
That is all.
October 19th, 2009
No it’s not external HDD’s it’s unlicensed Memory cards.
October 19th, 2009
Barnabe
If she doesn’t dump her
October 19th, 2009
“CAD is on the money here.
Its only the unlicensed stuff. ”
well…since M$ is the only one making and lincensed to make any type of memory for the 360..external HDD could fall in the unlicensed “unauthorized storage devices” category
October 19th, 2009
Sony did something similar with the illegal Chinese controllers for the ps3.
and CAD is right. I read the original article and appears its Memory cards and not HDD’s at all.
October 19th, 2009
“FUCK INFINTY WARD.
That is all.”
SW pissed at the two week delay or the no dedicated servers?
October 19th, 2009
Can’t believe I sat and read all that crap. lol
Slow day for stories………..
October 19th, 2009
I suspect most manufacturers do this, but generally try to do it via legal means instead of updates. Seems like a simple way to slap the companies making unlicensed stuff. Its just a shame it wags the finger at people who purchased them.
FUCK INFINITY WARD
October 19th, 2009
@Phranco – There is no delay for PC ForZeroTwo confirmed that via twitter.
But yes, its the dedicated servers thing. Half of my clan isn’t buying it now (myself included).
The sad thing is really that I want to play it
But I refuse to purchase a game with a gimped online system. If I wanted matchmaking where I’m using Jimbos 512k dsl and his system as a host I’d play the damn game on XBL.
October 19th, 2009
forgot the your signature there SW (on your last comment)
October 19th, 2009
Damn it!
FUCK INFINITY WARD
FUCK INFINITY WARD
there, I made up for it
October 19th, 2009
I just traded my last Xbox 360 for the God of War PSP. And my Xbox 360 was hacked with firmware 1.51 i gave it with 50 games. Soon the Xbox piracy god would have MW2 before it hits store LMFAO Microsoft is losing money somehow like Sony with PSP. I think too addictive to collecting PSP now i got 6 damn half of them fat models. the other sexy slim PSP. The Xbox 360 can be hack in so many ways i played Forza Motorsport 3 on my secret account is not bad but too hard. You car gets destroy for slightest crashers. And Brutal Legends wtf you can’t jump i hate that is annoying. And Mana Carta is garbage. Long time i haven’t touched my PS3 for online. PSP is gonna have my time now.
My new place
freewebs.com/ivan_network/
October 19th, 2009
“DoMiNiCaN GaMeR 4 LiFe”
Wow you are one ugly mother fucker IVAN lol it all makes sense now!
October 19th, 2009
So that was erm, out of line.
October 19th, 2009
LOL
CON you should look for another dude to hit on then.
October 19th, 2009
I’m sorry Ivan but you look like you just got off the boat dude. How was the smim across the atlantic. LOL
October 19th, 2009
Ok Cad Nice job in bringing racism into this conversation
October 19th, 2009
To be fair, CON started it. CAD just couldn’t help himself.
October 19th, 2009
SW since when has calling someone ugly been racist you tit? lol
October 19th, 2009
Seriously look at the pic on his site. He is one ugly mother fucker! lol
October 19th, 2009
CON started it but CAD made the racist comment
October 19th, 2009
‘SW since when has calling someone ugly been racist you tit? lol’
When you predceed it by mentioning thier nationaility. And I have no reason to give you the benefit of the doubrt because you’ve done it before.
October 19th, 2009
@SW. Ya con was out of order but that thing was quote from Ivans page so I don’t think he was being racist but then again you said that he used a racist comment before so maybe he is
October 19th, 2009
“I’m sorry Ivan but you look like you just got off the boat dude. How was the smim across the atlantic. LOL”
@ CAD
really CAD? look at your XBL Avatar Pic before you start making racist comments….
@ CON
you really must be Gay. a *dude* (shemale) judging annother man’s look is homo stuff.
October 19th, 2009
hahaha god I love his afro.
“Ask me if it tickles when I kiss you”
“Does it tickle when you kiss me?”
“Only slightly, only slightly”
October 19th, 2009
“you really must be Gay. a *dude* (shemale) judging annother man’s look is homo stuff.”
So homophobia is acceptable then?
October 20th, 2009
LoL racism wow oh well i got pay with new traffic and too a picture of me you need to be in my PlayStation fantasy world. freewebs.com/ivan_network
Roca.:
Thanks… LoL i hate the Xbox avatars they look too lame for me i hope Microsoft decides to COPYCAT Home it would be awesome to see what they come up with.
CON:
LoL I’m ugly are you a girl or guy? Weird saying that. Don’t worry i don’t care.
Coming soon http://www.ivan_psp.com/
October 20th, 2009
Hey SW.
Can you please explain to the Xbox fans here why dedicated serves are so important? Important enough where your clan would pay for it.
We seem to go on this Live vs PSN thing a lot and it seems like the 1st party studios having dedicated servers on the psn is always overlooked. I personally rather have ded servers than cross game chat….but I guess that just me….and apparently you too?
October 20th, 2009
I always figured CAD and CON to be the same person.
October 20th, 2009
its just too obvioous
October 20th, 2009
Dedicated servers allow everyone to make the most of their own connnections, as they have very massive pipelines dedicated to the servers.
Peer-hosted games rely on the host of the match having a good connection, as no matter how good yours is, if the host is shit, everyone will lag.
It is appalling that with the money that the COD franchise has, and will continue to make, that they won’t run the online off dedicated servers.
I’m so glad that CoD4 was the last one I played. I totally burned myself out on that one, ruining most of my console FPS enjoyment.
October 20th, 2009
@Phranc – There is still a diff. between the PS3 dedicated servers and what clans run. Sure they’re both dedicated boxes like Jofa said, but there is also an element of control. Its OUR house.
The irony about the money thing jofa, is that in the long run it probably costs them less to have dedicated servers because its the community that shoulders that cost (because we pay for our own servers). But I suspect IW.net is going to try to be bigger than just MW2. And in reality I think that this is all about control. Control to stop us making
our own maps so we break down and buy map packs/mods.
Anywhoos, its a shame it turned out like this. They could be BS but I’ve heard stories of bestbuys cancelling entire shipments, and some stores have seen 10+ cancellations in the same day.
I really want to play MW2 MP, but again, no dedicated server = no purchase for me.
October 20th, 2009
Oh and just to add to something Jofa said.
Another problem with p2p is the location of the host. With a dedicated server my clan put our server(s) in seattle, this is a nice central location for all of us. Thus, this gives everyone connecting to it roughly the same ping.
However if I am hosting the game on my box then the server location is now further away from folk in our clan who are from the central/eastern US, and I get a 0 ping making it much easier for me to be a killing machine and much harder for the guys who now 150+ pings.
I could whine all day about this
FOOK INFINITY WARD
October 20th, 2009
screw them Demon’s Souls is going to last until WKC comes out.
October 20th, 2009
Is this an IW decision? It sounds a lot like Activision had some say in this.
October 20th, 2009
Ratchet and Clan Future: A crack in Time received a 9.0 from IGN.
October 20th, 2009
shh…you know xbots are allergic to PS exclisve “awesome review” score.
they like their average 84 or lower from games..err.. expansion like ODST
October 20th, 2009
@Phranco – I have no idea. All I know is that is sucks. Its ruined what was going to be an awesome end to the year for me, it would have seen me thru gameplay wise for a loooong time.
But nope, they claim its the ‘casual pc gamer’ if that exists, having a hard time ‘finding a vanilla server’ all whilst getting squashed by better playes. So you know, rather than code the game to filter modded servers by default they impliment this fantastic plan… Of course we all know its because they want more moeny or couldn’t be bothered to modify the pc version (a.k.a sloppy port).
October 20th, 2009
SW that’s pretty serious, when exactly did I make a racist comment?
October 20th, 2009
Oh God now I’m a racist Rrriiigghhhtttttt!!!!!
October 20th, 2009
Well you guys are Avtar Racist. LOL
October 20th, 2009
And Roca is White Trash.
October 20th, 2009
I always figured CAD and CON to be the same person.
You never know maybe we are?????
October 20th, 2009
Oh and ncaissie is Canadian Bacon.
October 20th, 2009
And thats why I eat him allllllllll nite looooowwwwwwnnnnngggggg.
October 20th, 2009
“they like their average 84 or lower from games..err.. expansion like ODST ”
And you go on accusing others of being trolls? Hypocrite.
October 20th, 2009
That was to you SW
October 20th, 2009
What was me?
I’m a bacon-o-holic I admit it.
October 20th, 2009
Accusing me of being racist. When exactly was I racist?
October 20th, 2009
You mean yesterday or before?
October 21st, 2009
“You mean yesterday or before?”
LOL
October 21st, 2009
@ Harry
thats has nothing to do with trolling. I just dont praise games with similar rating and everybody knows ODST was a rip-off.
October 21st, 2009
admit it…
ODST should have been a $30 download. Minus the second disc but still including the three new maps.
October 21st, 2009
Well apparently the only people who think it’s a rip off are PS3 people. Isn’t that Ironic!! Stop dreaming of ODST and go play with your exclusives that don’t sell.
October 21st, 2009
How is wii fit CAD?
October 21st, 2009
Fuck off with that racist bullshit SW. Lowest form of an arguement
October 21st, 2009
CarlB should shoot all racists…
October 21st, 2009
“Well apparently the only people who think it’s a rip off are PS3 people. Isn’t that Ironic!! Stop dreaming of ODST and go play with your exclusives that don’t sell”
many of my friends didnt like the game at all….or should I say..they didnt like the campaign and the cost of the expansion.
its funny how between march and now there has been only 2 exclusive from M$…Halo Wars and Halo 2.75 STD. what a joke.
October 21st, 2009
Roca you have been proven to be a liar so why should we believe that you even have friends.
October 21st, 2009
sure….everybody loves ODST….there is not a single 360 owner that didnt like the game
October 21st, 2009
….beats shooting and torturing civilians
October 21st, 2009
“beats shooting and torturing civilians”
says who?
October 22nd, 2009
@ CAD: ‘Isn’t that Ironic!! Stop dreaming of ODST and go play with your exclusives that don’t sell’
You had to say something fanboy-ish didn’t you. You seemed to be doing so well aswell.
they might not sell as much CAD but you can’t argue with the quality of PS3s exclusives, same with the 360 ones. Ahhh Gears of War, how i love thee…
October 24th, 2009
“CarlB should shoot all racists…
”
nice one phranc… but heaven forbid any murderers or torturers or rapists or murdering torturing rapist racists happen to be “civilians” lol… no, that would be “wrong” to kill them
October 29th, 2009
I like CON getting riled up.