Controversy over Crysis 2 PS3 and Xbox 360 demos
There is some controversy over the quality of the Crysis 2 demo for the PS3 and the Xbox 360. IGN reported that the PS3 version of the demo seemed to suffer from framerate issues and jaggies everywhere.
This report came out of GDC, where Crytek had the game on display for the PS3. IGN wrote, “everything is clearer and sharper, and the framerate is solid. Most importantly, it just feels better than its PS3 counterpart from a play perspective.” You have to keep in mind that IGN is just providing their opinion as they did not do a side-by-side comparison of any sort.
However, PSM3 disagreed with IGN’s assessment by arguing that after beating the entire game, the writer noticed no discernable difference.
PSM3 writes:
We disagree that the Xbox 360 version performs significantly better than PS3. At our review event everyone played multi-player on PS3 – even the Xbox and multi-platform journalists. Would EA do this if they weren’t confident the PS3 version was on a par with the 360, if not the PC?
PSM3 makes a good point, as a studio such as Crytek takes pride in the quality of its games. I would highly doubt that the studio would put out an inferior version next to a superior version on the same show floor.
In short, I don’t think PS3 owners should take these reports *too* seriously. It’s good to hear journalists speaking their mind, especially when developers were happy enough to show the game in that condition, but it does feel like the media is ‘poking the bear’ – nothing does better traffic than a PS3/Xbox 360/PC comparison. And let’s be transparent here – it’s part of the reason we’re responding but, mostly, since we wouldn’t want PS3 owners to feel like they’re getting a raw deal when (on the basis of code we played extensively over the last two days), they’re not.
After peering over some of the side-by-side shots via Video Games Zone, the differences are truly seem minimal. The one main difference is that the Xbox 360 version seems to be darker than both the PC and PS3 versions. The PC and PS3 versions seem to employ more depth of field blurring for images in the background as well.
Check out the screenshots below (click to enlarge):
Notice how much darker the Xbox 360 version is even when compared to the PC and PS3 versions. The difference in contrast almost makes the areas where there are some sunlight “glow” on the building on the Xbox 360 version.
Notice in the second picture, that the building has depth-of-field blurring on the PS3 and PC version but the Xbox 360 version does not seem to have it, which is really not a big deal.
In addition, Crytek executive producer Nathan Camarillo challenged gamers in an interview with Jeff Rubenstein of PS Blog, to find any meaningful difference between the Xbox 360 and PS3 version.
He stated:
I’ve gone on the record saying that if you stick PS3 and 360 side by side I would challenge anyone to find any meaningful difference. I don’t see it at all.
There you have it folks, it appears that both versions are fairly identical with exception to the darkness.
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March 17th, 2011
If I knew this article would be put up I wouldn’t have commented about Crysis in the previous article, so I’ll copy and paste it here lol:
‘Just been playing the Crysis 2 multiplayer demo and I have to say I am EXTREMELY dissapointed! All this hype about how great the game looks is total bollocks! It looks nowhere near as good as Killzone 3 or Killzone 2 for that matter! Whoever say it’s the best looking console game ever is obviously living on a unrealistic xbot fanboy dream.
This game could of looked great if they didn’t have to limit the PS3 version so it’s identical to the 360. The Xbox is really holding back multiplat titles lately.’
March 17th, 2011
Btw I have said it before and I’ll say it again, IGN have proven time and time again for bein Xbot fanslugs. They just keep proving it time and time again.
March 17th, 2011
‘This game could of looked great if they didn’t have to limit the PS3 version so it’s identical to the 360. The Xbox is really holding back multiplat titles lately.’
Not only multiplats but the whole video gaming industry including game journalism.
Things need to get back to in order asap!
Its sad gamers are so tied up with many games related issues except the video games themselves.
The sooner Microsoft stops this BS or be stopped the better for all concerned.
Maybe the best way to solve this flamebaiting issues is to stop feeding/consuming these troll sites like IGN, DF, VGChartz, etc. and create honest & responsible journalism ourselves.
Defeat & overpower the negative stuff with more positive stuff.
March 17th, 2011
LOL
So to make thinks fair for the PS£, we remove anything that’s in favour of the 360 from the internet. .
LMAO
Just listen to yourselves.
Lets just wait and see what the digital foundry guys make of it. my best guess is that the games are very close to each other.
you guys continually forget that the 360 does actually have some graphical hardware advantages over the PS3. even the full screen AA thing is easier to do pull of without resorting to trickery.
It’s been a pattern repeated over and over the last 4 years that the 360 gets ever so slightly better versions of the 3rd party games.
To say that developers are programming to the lowest common denominator is BS, otherwise the PS3 would be as good as the PC version, and it clearly isn’t. so STFU with that BS argument. After 4 years do you not think the Devs would be porting down to the 360 if the PS3 was truly a better platform.
The truth is the Xbox is not as shit as you guys think it is..remember Black Ops. .Let me guess. . You didn’t really want the split screen option and the graphical issues are a wild rumour started by M$. . yeah. .yeah. .Suck it up fanboys
March 17th, 2011
“You didn’t really want the split screen option”
If you mean the option to do split sreen online, then yeah we actually do have it.
March 17th, 2011
All IGN does by creating such conflict is to turn people away from buying the game that otherwise would have done so without the news of a terrible port. if it’s not shit, don’t call it that.
Crysis 2 was a game i was sitting on the fence about. Now, who knows. If the SP is intact, and reported to be a 14 hour game, it may be worth it at $40. Considering how quick some games have been dropping in price, it’ll likely see that price in under a month.
March 17th, 2011
@Godless
there are countless of MP games that look and run better on PS3 – DA2 being the latest one.
As far as AA, the PS3 is able to produce higher AA (about 4 times higher) than gaming PCs. Why you try so hard to defend the 360 without having a clue of the actual facts?
Let me know when the 360 gets games that look better than Killzone, Uncharted, God of War, Infamous and all the others.
btw, Kojima said the PS3 version of MGS Risin will be the best version… wonder why?
March 17th, 2011
“So to make thinks fair for the PS£, we remove anything that’s in favour of the 360 from the internet. .”
Just the Lies. Which is most of it.
Idiot.
March 17th, 2011
“Lets just wait and see what the digital foundry guys make of it. my best guess is that the games are very close to each other.”
My guess is they all suck ass because they cater to the 360. Like they said the dev didn’t want any version to be superior. That means developed to the lowest common denominator.(AKA 3shity)
March 17th, 2011
“you guys continually forget that the 360 does actually have some graphical hardware advantages over the PS3.”
LMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAO
LMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAO
LMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAO
LMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAOLMFAO
You are a truly are a fucking moron.
March 17th, 2011
“there are countless of MP games that look and run better on PS3 – DA2 being the latest one.”
It doesn’t matter if they look better on the PS3 or 360.
The fact is not one NON-MP game on the 360 looks as good (and never will) as the NON-MP PS3 games done right.
MP games are ports and not developed for the PS3 and in this case even the 360. I bet it was developed for the PC and ported to the other two. We all know the code on a PC or 360(Also a PC) will not run well on the PS3.
Using MP games to set a benchmark for the PS3s and the PCs capabilities is just stupid.(Not talking about you Roca) I’m directing it at the xbot moron(s).
Hey Godless, Show me one game that even comes close to GOW3 or Uncharted 2.
March 17th, 2011
This fucking site gets my blood boiling some times. These Xbots are either doing it on purpose or they truly are idiots. I’m guessing they truly are.
March 17th, 2011
On topic:
I have yet to play the demo so I can’t say much. But looking at the screens I’m not holding my breath. I kind of expected this though. I knew it would be held back because of the shitbox.
March 17th, 2011
@anyone saying the 360 version is better: get ms cock out of your mouth crytek went on record saying the ps3 version “at the monent pefroms better than the 360 version” THEN crytek stated the obvious ” cover our asses” comment about there being minimal differences….
Controversy over..at the moment ps3 performs better, its now obvious the 360 is holding back graphcial devlopments….its ashame ms has such deep pocket…
March 17th, 2011
The Ps3 is more then capable of handling the same graphics as the Xbox360. The problem is that the Ps3 is much different under the hood then the Xbox360. It is more difficult for developers to develop for the Ps3 because of this. The problem is that many developers don’t know how to program properly for the Ps3 or don’t want to spend the extra time to get the game right on the Ps3. The Ps3 is capable of producing much better graphics then the Xbox360 system. There are many Ps3 games that illustrate this fact.
March 17th, 2011
Wonderful traffick promoting article Mike.
What an amazing thing CONTEXT is:
“The performance of the PS3 version is pretty underwhelming. The framerate is frequently low and choppy. There are jagged lines everywhere, and shadows are especially messy. There’s a muddiness to the graphics that’s hard to stomach in the wake of the PS3′s other flagship showpieces, and worse, the variable framerate really hurts controller response…
That isn’t to say it’s all bad…
Crysis 2 ISN’T FINISHED YET. This build could be a FEW WEEKS TO A FEW MONTHS OLD, and optimization is often rapid and pronounced toward the END of a game’s development period.
That said, my time with the PS3 version was sandwiched between the multiplayer demo on PC which, despite its own issues, understandably smokes its console cousins (umm… BOTH PS3 and 360), and a re-released multiplayer demo on the Xbox 360, which I spent some more time with last night. My previous complaints about that version’s iffy controller response have been mostly addressed, and visually, it’s clearly outperforming the PS3 version. Everything is clearer and sharper, and the framerate is solid. Most importantly, it just feels better than its PS3 counterpart from a play perspective.”
~IGN
March 17th, 2011
Like most instances of comparisons between the PS3 and 360 games, it appears that the contrast is higher on the 360 version, given it a brighter look, where the PS3 version looks darker and softer.
I keep reading, shaders and texture quality is better on the PS3 version while the 360 framerate is more consistent.
Sounds like Dragon Age once again.
“I’ve gone on the record saying that if you stick PS3 and 360 side by side I would challenge anyone to find any meaningful difference. I don’t see it at all.”
He appears to stand by the product, while potentially looking like a fool if he’s wrong.
Let’s see if there’s enough of a difference to see a difference in review scores for one vs the other next week when IGN reviews the game.
IMO the PS3 should have to be noticeably different for that to happen.
IGN didn’t know points away from the 360 version of FF13 for having sub HD resolution on everything other than the cutscenes which still were 720p compared to 1080p on the PS3, or it’s framerate issues.
I guess time will tell.
March 17th, 2011
*know=take (yeah…. don’t know how that happened)
March 17th, 2011
@phranc
Ign is the most whored out gaming website there is….the reviewers and editors there are the industry’s most absolute trash….NOT because they favor 360 over ps3 or vice versa but because they buy into the “hype” aka $$$$..in short, their reviews are bought and sold, as evident by, i remember, them reviewing i believe it was halo 2 (when the big deal was metroid prime vs halo), it had scored like a very high 9 (thus winning against metroid prime….even single player which is pure bs…mp story is leaos bounds better)and they later “re reviewed” the game and the score was lower( and even admitting mp was better single player experience)….blatant selling out and cant believe people still use ign….their only use is of updated videos…
March 17th, 2011
I have issues with their reviews not coming close to the general consensus of the rest of the industry.
I remember seeing somewhere that their reviews are generally up to 10 points off from the median review score.
GTA4 also getting a 10 was ridiculous.
March 17th, 2011
I’m going to skip Crysis 2.
I am so sick of Devs making shitty PS3 games so the xbots don’t feel left out.
March 17th, 2011
I don’t care for Ign’s reviews Jojo. You know there is something wrong when the average reader scores are much different then the reviewer scores.
Anyways, I played the Mortal Kombat demo and it was awesome! I can’t wait for this game to come out.
March 17th, 2011
Mortal Kombat demo was awesome. The video at the end, the tag team combos, the xray moves and of course the fatalities kicked ass.
The train level fatality is just great.
March 17th, 2011
“GTA4 also getting a 10 was ridiculous”
with so many bugs and frame rate issues I’m sure it deserves a perfect 10
March 17th, 2011
It also appears that the 360 version was experiencing the same network issues the PS3 version is currently having prior to the patch that was recently released.
March 17th, 2011
Notice these idiots come in and say a bunch of lies then run off?
March 17th, 2011
http://www.xboxaddict.com/news/11017/New-Square-Enix-Studio-to-Focus-on-Xbox-720.html
I can’t see this page from work but the title looks interesting.
I’ll look at home.
March 17th, 2011
You know you’re an Xbot if…
… you think darker muddier graphcs are better.
March 17th, 2011
LOL
You know you’re an Xbot if…
… you think Steve Ballmer is cool.
March 17th, 2011
You know your an Xbot it….
… when playing a 3rd person shooter, you say you yourself, “What’s this guy doing standing where my reticule shout be?!”.
March 17th, 2011
lol there were about 400 “you know yor an xbot” posts on an Amazon thread.
I can go all day ;D
March 17th, 2011
LOL @ BJ
got anymore?
March 17th, 2011
You know you’re an Xbot when.
You’ve never had the RRoD, therefore believe it’s a PS3 fanboy lie and doesn’t exist.
You know you’re an Xbot when.
You realize that you’re system is a piece of junk. But at least Microsoft will replace it for free.
You know you’re an Xbot when.
Kinect is different and not like the Eye Toy, but MOVE is just another Wiimote.
You know you’re an Xbot when.
You say something like “Our system is better because it’s been out a year longer and therefore has sold better.”
You know you’re an Xbot when.
You say something like “We have no good exclusives coming out in 2011, but multi-plats always look better on the 360.”
You know you’re an Xbot when.
You believe, No one plays fighting games anymore, so the fact the D-pad sucks doesn’t matter.
You know you’re an Xbot when.
Blu-Ray sucks but dirt cheap HD-DVDs and upscaling DVD’s are the way to go.
March 17th, 2011
You know you’re an Xbot when.
The United States counts for the whole world in sales figures.
You know you’re an Xbot when.
Exclusives don’t mean shit.
You know you’re an Xbot when.
You care for the sales of Kinect more than the disastrous results that it will have on the future of core titles for the 360.
You know you’re an Xbot when.
WiFi is only cool now that the 360S has it built it
You know you’re an Xbot when.
You’re reading this and your knuckles are getting white.
March 17th, 2011
we have characters for all 12 “You know you’re an Xbot when” comments from Pranc.
1 = HappyHockum, Toshi
2 = CAD, HappyHockum, Kev, Toshi
3 = CAD, Toshi, CON
4 = Twilight, Godless, CarlB, HappyHockum
5 = Godless, Navysteve, CAD
6 = CAD, HappyHockum
7 = HappyHockum
8 = Toshi, Twilight, Godless, Kev
9 = ALL of the above (LMAO)
10= Godless, CAD, Toshi
11= ALL of the above
12= none (they can’t read lol)
March 17th, 2011
LOL good one Phranc.
March 17th, 2011
You know you’re an Xbot when.
You think paying to play games online is the norm, and Sony is straying away by offering online gaming for free.
You know you’re an Xbot when.
You believe MS is the most innovative company out there.
You know you’re an Xbot when.
You’re thinking of clever “You know you’re a pbot” jokes to fire back at me.
You know you’re an Xbot when.
You end every post with an ouch, LMAO
March 17th, 2011
ouch, LMAO
March 17th, 2011
You know you’re an Xbot when…
You notice you haven’t been gaming much for the last couple of months
March 17th, 2011
You know you’re an Xbot when.
You think COD games are exclusive to the 360.
You know you’re an Xbot when.
A month long beta is the only thing to be excited about until September.
You know you’re an Xbot when.
You actually think MS will win E3 2011 even though they barely showed up for the last three years.
March 17th, 2011
LOL You guys crack me up….
March 17th, 2011
You know you’re an Xbot when..
you pay for XBL Gold but barely play any online game.
You know you’re an Xbot when..
When you buy a new 360S just for “wifi” even when you said you didn’t care for it when it was PS3-only feature.
March 17th, 2011
You know you’re an Xbot when..
Logic, reason, and any semblance of math skills elude you.
March 17th, 2011
You know you’re an Xbot when..
You cry yourself to sleep at night.
March 17th, 2011
“You know you’re an Xbot when..you pay for XBL Gold but barely play any online game.”
Roca– please. You know they play CoD and Reach like it’s going out of style…. And they think they’re both Xbox exclusive LOL
March 17th, 2011
You know you’re an Xbot when..
You can’t tell when your even telling the truth or a lie.
March 17th, 2011
You know you’re an Xbot when..
You’re afraid to go to gamer.blorge because you have been made to look foolish over and over.
March 17th, 2011
Here’s the thread:
http://www.amazon.com/tag/video%20games/forum/ref=cm_cd_search_res_ti?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx1T1DM93QU4XL1&cdMsgNo=1&cdPage=1&cdSort=oldest&cdThread=Tx2LZ24FIATNJFA&cdMsgID=Mx2NP87UB7B2KWH#Mx2NP87UB7B2KWH
March 17th, 2011
… You don’t believe that RRoD actually exists, you think it’s just PS3 fans making it up, even though you are on your fourth X360.
March 17th, 2011
LMAO
March 17th, 2011
You know you’re an Xbot when..
If you think paying for online play makes it better.
March 17th, 2011
you know you’re an xbot when…
you say you played the Crysis 2 demo on PSN when it was only available on XBL
March 17th, 2011
LOL
March 17th, 2011
You know you are a fanboy when you write more than one post or make a list of “you know you are an Xbot (or PBot)” jokes in a thread.
March 17th, 2011
You know you’re a troll when your online name is CarlB.
March 17th, 2011
If it wasn’t true then it wouldn’t bother you so much.
March 17th, 2011
I just downloaded Crysis 2 today and it’s GAY! It’s like VR Troopers being ripped from Power Rangers fucking geek thieves! I hate the game…in order to play it I had to sign up on EA’s bullshit list and I said fuck that.
I’m tired of getting spam email. If I had to sign up to play demos now then I will fully support pirates until game developers get their act together.
March 18th, 2011
I couldn’t get a lobby, and it was searching for 10 minutes straight– twice.
March 18th, 2011
Lmao Carl is the only one to react to the ‘you know you’re an xbot when…’ Posts haha.
Thanks for clarifying that you are in fact an Xbot lol
March 18th, 2011
“If it wasn’t true then it wouldn’t bother you so much.”
Lmao os and nc are the only ones to react to the “you know you are a fanboy when” posts haha.
Thanks for clarifying that you are in fact fanboys lol.
March 18th, 2011
Have you ever watched the news and seen religious fanatics starting a war with people who just don’t share their beliefs.
These religions often don’t see themselves as being religious fanatics, only that they are right and fighting the good fight againt all that is evil.
It’s all very black and white .Sad that their entrenched opinions make the rest of the world such a twisted bitter experience for them.
The new motorstorm apocalypse game sucks. .I’m so disappointed, I was really looking forward to this. .Split second pisses all over it from a mile high.
Played the Crisis demo for just 2 rounds on PS3 before getting dumped and was not able to log on again.
It looks good, I personally couldn’t see any difference between the PS3 and the Xbox version even though the PS3 version is 1080p on my TV while the 360 is 720p (not sure if that because of my 360 output settings or if it’s a game thing.
The only problem is I’m shit at it. .seemed to do that thing where you unload a clip into someone only to have them turn around and kill you with 1 F#%king bullet.
Aahh yes been a while since I played a FPS and I’d almost forgotten how utterly frustrating they can be.
Mortal Kombat was good fun, even if I only found a couple of special moves.
March 18th, 2011
BEST THREAD EVER!!
March 18th, 2011
everybody on this thread is wrong.the atari 2600 is by far the best console ever made.discussion over
March 18th, 2011
future of sega is also a hypocritical little shit
March 18th, 2011
LMAO. I bet carlb’s knuckles were also getting white.
March 18th, 2011
Being “called” a fanboy does not bother me.
March 18th, 2011
charlie. 2600 was nothing compared to the Magnavox Odyssey2. Best consoles ever? SNES, Genesis, PS1, PS2, PS3.
March 18th, 2011
“seemed to do that thing where you unload a clip into someone only to have them turn around and kill you with 1 F#%king bullet. ”
I hate that. It happens to me a lot.
March 18th, 2011
“The new motorstorm apocalypse game sucks”
seems like your (biased) opinion about PS3 exclusive hasn’t change… Split Second was gay, Motorstorm 1, Burnout and NFS:HP were more fun.
March 18th, 2011
The comparisons will always happen with split second and motorstorm apocalypse even though we were all aware of MS:A existence months before Split Second was announced.
They’re different games altogether. In SS you cause the effects on the track while MS:A that’s not the case. SS is more like Burnout in that case.
March 18th, 2011
He’s saying it sucks because of a 1-track and 2-vehicle demo… Motorstorm offers much more than Split Second.
for starter, in Motorstorm you have more than 1 type of vehicle… there will be over 12 different type of vechicles including supercars, superbikes, monster trucks, buggies, choppers (yes, helicopters) and more – and each vehicle type offer has a different advantage on the road over the others.
The game also has over 40 track which dynamically change over the course of the race and it also has a track/race editor which lets you create your own track, race, goals and events.
March 18th, 2011
Commodore 64 FTW!!
March 18th, 2011
He’s saying it sucks cause he’s trying to bait you.
March 18th, 2011
I’m saying it sucks because it sucks.
When I first played the one track demo for split second I was blown away by how much fun it was.
I bought the game the next day. the game turned out to be even better than the demo, though I hate the multiplayer, or rather the way it deals with the online ranking system.
Motor storm video looked great and I was looking forward to this game. however it plays like shit, handling is way too much like the first one, and the over steer at low speed is pish and can make getting started or correcting your path after an impact of any kind an utter pain in the arse. I won’t be getting it but I might get Split second for the PS3 because it actually looks and plays slightly different to the 360 version (in a good way)and I’d like to see if getting some of the achievements is any easier.
March 18th, 2011
My only problem with motorstorm is wiping out from something that shouldn’t make you wipe. I hear they fixed that in the new one.
March 18th, 2011
Godless,
I think it will be impossible to get achivements on Ps3 but I’m sure you can get some trophies. (smile).
March 18th, 2011
I love hearing ppl whining when they suck at a certain game…
on the other hand, I though the demo of Split Second was crap and very predictable & repetitive all cars handle the same and there was no surprise effect…not to mention the graphics weren’t as good as other games.
Rookies usually don’t understand how to play Motorstorm right…unlike Split Second, tracks have multiple path and they are suited for different type of vehicles… bikes and supercars (the ones available in the demo) are suited for clear roads, hills & ramps and theier “steering” is much more sensitive than other classes…again each class handles differently so that a problem you don’t get in the Split Second and its same-for-all handling.
March 18th, 2011
@godless
So your issue with motorstorm is a control issue it seems?? Im not mocking you just trying to understand as i havent even played the demo or was aware there was even one out yet…
Guys, on the ” you know your an xbkt when..” jokes were pretty funny and spot on BUT when someone posts the opposite…dont jump on them and get defensive….carlb’s joke..was indeed lame…but at least he tried lol here goes a couple off the top of my head:
You know your a pbot when :
Your working two jobs to afford one..
Thats really all i git on ps3
You know your an xbot when:
You agree with anything the Dipshit HappyHockun has ever said..
You think paying for online play makes it better
You think a swimming game based on a drug addict is for “hardcore gamers”
You think a duck hunt motion game is a viable exclusive
You think its okay for a company as rich as MS to release 1-2 exclusives a year….not even original ips but sequels…
You think multi plats make a system ( seems they forget the sonics, marios, zeldas, are what define a system NOT the CoDs or yearly maddens..)
You think a 3 year warranty is a viable cover up for a 36%-56% failure rate because MS cares…
You think Halo has a deep and rich story
You think NPD/game sales make your 1-2 exclusives better than having 8-10 equal rated exclusives…
Thats all i got…
I wanna see some good ps3 ones that have to do with the system itself that are actually true…so far the sad thini see…is the xbox ones have real issues lol
March 18th, 2011
Oh heres another pbot one:
You know your a pbot when you can plan your wedding inbetween firmware updates…
March 18th, 2011
LMFAO @ TrollBs poor attempt to turn the fanboy thing back on me and NC! What an epic fail lol! You’re the only one to react to the actual ‘You know you’re a…’
I commented on your reaction to the ‘you know you’re a…’ Not your failed ‘You know you’re a pbot…’ attempt. Nice try TrollB but you, I and everyone else here knows you failed in your shitty turn around attempt lol. The fact remains, you’re the ONLY one to react to the jokes, what was wrong, did every single one remind you of you? Awwhh poor Xbot, don’t worry, you’ll get an exclusive by the end of the year and some minor better looking 3rd party titles lol.
March 18th, 2011
“You know your a pbot when :
Your working two jobs to afford one..”
LOL that is funny because I am working 2 jobs to get an Ipad 2.
March 18th, 2011
“future of sega is also a hypocritical little shit”
Lol and who the hell are you? Lol I don’t even know who the fuck you are and you just arrived out of nowhere on this site to insult me? Aaaah suck it.
Don’t tell me you’re Liquid? 
March 18th, 2011
Godless,
Can weee…not talk about that please? Thank you
By the way has anyone received my friend requests on XBL 2 months ago? As soon as I get my 360 fixed I’ll log back in. Damn 360 had to Red Ring on me. -_-
March 18th, 2011
“Oh heres another pbot one:
You know your a pbot when you can plan your wedding inbetween firmware updates…”
LMFAO hahahahahahaha that’s a good one.
Speaking of which has anyone been married in Playstation Home yet? I’m sure Hollywood Access would pick up on it. 
March 18th, 2011
You know you’re a pbot when.
You have exclusives to play it 2011.
You know you’re a pbot when.
You play online but no ones talking.
You know you’re a pbot when.
GT5′s review scores still piss you off.
You know you’re a pbot when.
You get called out by carlb, but still find it hilarious, since he answered on of the xbot jokes.
You know you’re a pbot when.
You can’t come up with any more, you know you’re a pbot jokes.
March 18th, 2011
@ Roca
“so that a problem you don’t get in the Split Second and its same-for-all handling.”
LMAO
Is that so Roca? . . Try actually playing split second, and then tell me all the cars don’t handle differently. wow. .that’s just so utterly wrong . .holy shit
As for MS A the handling is just poor. bike and car they handle almost identical (try PGR 4 for a better car Vs Bike arcade racer) .like I said, it’s too much like the first one, which was great when it came out but it now looks and plays dated.
some of the problems for me
1. total lack of steering response at higher speeds (like driving on ice)
2. surface you’re on makes no difference what so ever to the driving on ice type handling
3 frustratingly unnecessary over steer at low speed.
4. cars all clump together for the entire race, so that they all finish the race within 2 or 3 seconds of each other. meaning if your not 1st you more than likely last
5 no wow moments like in Split second, so even when shit is happening it tends to be very underwhelming. especially the crashes.
Try playing it you’ll see what I mean. I wouldn’t rate the demo more than about 7.5 out of 10
@ TFOS
Let’s not talk about what?
March 18th, 2011
You Know you’re a Pbot when : you’re still bitter and twisted about the 360 still having sold more hardware units than the PS3
You Know you’re a Pbot when : you think ist’s ok to strip away hardware with every new PS3 hardware revision.
You Know you’re a Pbot when : you’re not exited by the next big multiplatform release because you just know it’s going to look & play better on the xbox
You Know you’re a Pbot when : despite it being free you just wish PSN would hurry up and get better than LIVE
You Know you’re a Pbot when : you can’t just admit that the 360 has a better controler (unless you have girls hands like birdman)
You Know you’re a Pbot when :you’ve been praying for 4 years that the PS3 will have caugt up in hardware sales by the end of the year.
You Know you’re a Pbot when :you can’t admit a 1.5 meter long (play & charge) lead is fucking usless.
You Know you’re a Pbot when :you won’t admit that there are better blu ray players than the PS3 available for under £100.
Hmm I have more but no time to post now
March 18th, 2011
@Godless
I played the demo and I owned both M1 & M2..I can honestly you could’ve been more wrong with your lame excuses…all I see is you whining about the game that offers so many different type of handling, different paths suited for different type of cars and great graphcs that probably have looking at whats around rather than paying attention to the track and all its different short cuts.
oh, PGR4 is street/track racing with just 2 or 3 different type of vehicles while Motorstorm is the only off-track racing game that has sucessfully managed to balance and support over 10 different type of vehicles while offering a great arcade experience.
for some reason Split Second reminded of a horrible game called Full Auto. Everything is predictible in SP..
March 18th, 2011
I want Crysis 2 it looks fucking sick buying this or downloading for PC Xbox 360 AND PS3. This game looks awesome. I don’t care what anyone says this game is gonna rock.
Oh and I got MotorStorm Apocalypse is 19.7GB without 3d videos 13.2 I’m playing it now there’s a 201MB update when u put it on and it requires firmware 3.56
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/1681/cimg0505l.jpg
March 18th, 2011
“you’ve been praying for 4 years that the PS3 will have caugt up in hardware sales by the end of the year”
again, you are making shit up.
For the last 3 years PS3 has outsold the 360… whiling offering more exclusive, better features and better network.
360 has been playing catch up, their last 2 effort faild – 360 Slim could not get more sales than PS3 and Kinect only manage to match PS3 sales
comeback when have actual facts instead of fanboy nonsense..
March 18th, 2011
And the biggest Pbot fish took a nice big bite
LOL
March 18th, 2011
^lmao
“You know you’re a pbot when.
GT5?s review scores still piss you off.”
Yep, I’m one then.
March 18th, 2011
“anyone been married in Playstation Home yet?”
LOL what a good idea. I don’t think Amanda would go for it though. She is not into my games and shit as she calls it.
March 18th, 2011
“As for MS A the handling is just poor. bike and car they handle almost identical (try PGR 4 for a better car Vs Bike arcade racer) .like I said”
You got all that from a demo? LMAO you idiot.
March 18th, 2011
@ IVAN
Can I suggest you get yourself a better TV, the PS3 & 360 are wasted if you’re going to plug them into an old TV
you are seriously missing out on the HD experience
March 18th, 2011
You know you are an Xbot…
When you sing the same tune for 5 years straight.
March 18th, 2011
“And the biggest Pbot fish took a nice big bite”
it’s hard to know when are you baiting since you usually say bullshit comments like those…
Kind of sad to see the biggest Xbot (as of right now) making up BS statement to try to make a point.
March 18th, 2011
Godless:
That’s the TV in my room the HDTV is in the living room. I wanna buy a Bravia 32 inches bundle with aPS3 for my room. I’m playing MotorStorm Apocalypse in standard resolution i took the 3D off but that game would look epic awesome in 3D.
March 18th, 2011
@Ivan
are you a PSN+ member yet?
March 18th, 2011
You know you’re an Xbot when.
You have to lie to make ‘You know you’re a pbot’ jokes.
March 18th, 2011
Roca.:
Today I’m buy the card from the idiots at GameStop My K3 socom beta didnt work just like the god of war collection fucked up codes if this psn plus doesnt work ima give them hell.
MotorStorm 3 got me hook just got a trophy.
March 18th, 2011
You know you’re an xbot when.
You buy a PS3 but only played five games, and claim you know what you’re talking about when it comes to PS3 games.
You know you’re an xbot when.
A year head start is never brought up when comparing sales figures.
You know you’re an xbot when.
You complain about the PS3 losing functionality the 360 never had.
March 18th, 2011
@Ivan
the beta starts next week for PSN+ members and the week after for KZ3 buyers….hold on to the code until March 29th
March 18th, 2011
@Phranc
great comeback…
well, speaking of Motorstorm… Sony has officially delayed it here in the US (because of Japan)..
Seriously what does the game has to do with what happen in Japan…. Stupid move by Sony
March 18th, 2011
You you’re an xbot when…
you beat ME2 12 times in a year because there was no other exclusive worth playing…then you stop posting after finding out that your precious exclusive is coming to PS3 as the “best version of ME2″
March 18th, 2011
LOL Ivan is just too stupid to figure out how to use PSN Codes.
March 18th, 2011
“You you’re an xbot when…you beat ME2 12 times in a year because there was no other exclusive worth playing”
Goddamn it, you just called me an Xbot….
“I love hearing ppl whining when they suck at a certain game…”
Oh stop being elitist. Some games have poor design choices (Tekken 6′s Scenario Campaign, NBA 2K’s My Player, GT5′s leveling system AND B-Spec, Demon’s Souls’ everything) that force you to grind or keep replaying something over and over and over and over. It’s not that anyone sucks, it’s the game’s poor design choices. Maybe Godless does suck, but his complaints are not unwarranted– Google “MS oversteer”.
“You Know you’re a Pbot when : you can’t just admit that the 360 has a better controler (unless you have girls hands like birdman)”
Opinions aren’t facts. The Dualshock 3 ain’t changed for a reason. The Xbox controller has twice. I guarantee it’ll change again for Xbox 3.
And I’d rather have functional ‘girly’ hands, than big Play Doh Gumby fingers that hit 4 songs at one time on an iPad
March 18th, 2011
Lol @ Smooth Operator.
March 18th, 2011
@Birdman
That was for Toshi
March 18th, 2011
Godless,
Oh I thought you were referring to the unrest in the middle east. Nevermind
So Ivan…how in the world do you have Motorstorm 3 yet? It hasn’t been released to retail stores yet?
Twilight,
Who is Smooth Operator?
I just watched Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring and about to watch the 2nd one on my PS3.
March 18th, 2011
“Who is Smooth Operator?”
that’s what she calls me..
March 18th, 2011
“@Birdman
That was for Toshi”
That reminds me of TMNT 3 when the grandfather was yelling for his grandson trapped in the fire house and he said “Yoooshiiiii, Yooooshiiiii..*cough cough* drag stuff.” Lol.
Speaking of Ninja Turtles the first movie was the best! The 3rd movie was next best but the 2nd one sucked. It was corny, they didn’t say damn anymore, and the violence was toned down.
March 18th, 2011
You know Ivan is about time you add me on your psn list. I’m chatting with these 30 and 40 year olds. I need some youngsters who are hip and cool like me to talk too.
lol. Besides you guys log off when I log on or ignore my comments.
Not to change subjects but does anyone here know how to play Chess?
March 18th, 2011
I want to find out who this charliechan is. It’s kind of odd that he shows up out of nowhere just to insult me unless.
Charliechan,
Have we meet? Are you that guy from that PC website trying to argue with me how PCs are better than consoles? If so then LMAO. Dude I’ve told you a million times that consoles are more popular than PCs when it comes to gaming.
PCs are more popular for porn.
March 18th, 2011
“PCs are more popular for porn.”
Ha!! Like you would know!!
March 18th, 2011
@ godless
Lmao some of those were actually funny
@ roca
Sorry to say this but id take pgr over motorstorm….its one of 3 exclusives the 360 has that i wish was on ps3…
March 18th, 2011
Sega,
Smooth Operator is a.k.a Roca.
Also, quit being so sensitive Sega. I’m sure everyone is not logging off their system because you log on. I am sure if they didn’t like you, you wouldn’t be on their friends list. Besides, you can delete anyone you don’t want on your friends list.
March 18th, 2011
Twilight – “I’m sure everyone is not logging off their system because you log on.”
Speak for yourself!!
Jk
March 18th, 2011
lol @phranc, nc, &os. I’m too busy playing and enjoying Sly collection on PS3 to take much notice. You’ll also read on the post that I included those who make “you know your a Pbot” jokes, so it’s not just isolated to one or another, I just knew somebody would respond.
Sorry to disappoint, but I’m a fan of good games in general (multiplats + exclusives) and system capabilities over putting on blinders for brand loyalty.
As far as this gen goes, 360 had plenty games and capabilities enough early on, but PS3 finally matched and overtook them last year overall (exclusives back in 2008, trophies -finally- in 2009, PSN Plus in 2010 to name a few reasons) by clenching it with PSN plus while XBL hiked it price, so I don’t see myself going back to 360 this gen unless they do something drastic, and PS3 has been my console of choice for the last half year.
March 18th, 2011
Ah, I bought Sly recently. Just platted the 1st one (28 Plat Trophies now lol). Ill plat 2 and 3 next time I’m on my ps3
March 18th, 2011
Looks like you had a lot of time on your hands lol.
March 18th, 2011
Lol @ Dans.
March 18th, 2011
“Ha!! Like you would know!!
”
*Burp*
“Also, quit being so sensitive Sega. I’m sure everyone is not logging off their system because you log on. I am sure if they didn’t like you, you wouldn’t be on their friends list. Besides, you can delete anyone you don’t want on your friends list.”
*Sip water* I’ll keep that in mind.
March 18th, 2011
So Ivan how about that friend request?
March 18th, 2011
The Future of Sega:
Add me PSN ID: Ivan-
My next two to play tomorrow L.A. Noire and Crysis 2. LoL Leakedddddddddddddddddddddddd
March 18th, 2011
@ Carl: Nope, I’m just very good at games. You know how much time squaddies actually get Carl, especially the British Army, always have us doing something. Doesn’t take long to plat a game if you’re half decent at it.
March 18th, 2011
@OS. Yes. Plats=time=”good at games”.
March 19th, 2011
“Sorry to disappoint, but I’m a fan of good games in general (multiplats + exclusives) and system capabilities over putting on blinders for brand loyalty.”
What a load of crap. You know dam well brand loyalty has nothing to do with it. I own plenty of MS products. The is shot hardware and with no good games coming there is NO reason to buy one. I don’t really care to much for playing old games. Even if they are in this Gen. I came very close to getting the reach 360 but there is no games coming out except gears and to spend $370 to play two games is just stupid.
The way you trash Sony and defend MS makes you a blind fanboy. And Playing nothing but the PS3 while you do makes you a hypocrite. If MS comes out at E3 and anounces a bunch of good AAA games then I will buy a slim.
Chances are that won’t happen though.
March 19th, 2011
Carl you’re such a prick its unbelievable. Just because you’re shit at games and completing games takes a lot longer for you. Don’t assume you know everything TrollB, I’ve been playing games all my life which is why I’m good at them. There’s no need to be a cheeky fuck because you’re wank at games. I know for a fact I have a lot less time on my hands than you do TrollB.
March 19th, 2011
“The way you trash Sony and defend MS”
Yeah dude. Saying every home console Sony has ever made is the best console of it’s gen is really “trashing” Sony. Saying M$ fucked up with hiking the price with XBL while adding no value like PSN Plus did is really “defending” M$ lol. Your mind is warped bro.
“I’ve been playing games all my life”
And “all your life” isn’t “time”? Whatever. You sure are hypersensitive man. I can tell by your comments you are really emotionally invested into your plat rep, but dude, chill. They are only games.
“Carl you’re such a prick its unbelievable.”
Why? It’s not like I resorted to name calling or anything. Look. I know. Time. I’ve also been gaming for a while now (since 1976). A quick look at your trophies and mine side by side sorted by date show you haven’t gone a single month without gaming on PS3 since 2008, for a total of 29 months. I’ve been off and on with only PS3 exclusives until about late august last year. My console of choice was 360 before then, but even then I went over a year and a half away from it entirely because of deployments and travel time combined. I have a total of 13 months showing trophies on PS3, and most of those just for the week or two it took to plat that exclusive while being a full time Marine.
So yes, you’ve had more game time on PS3 than I have, and hence, more trophies.
But I tell you what, you plat Bayonetta or Vanquish and I will happily admit you are really “good at games” and not just pushing buttons and moving analog sticks over a greater amount of time.
March 19th, 2011
Lol Carl how many tours you been on? And your right I will always find some time to jump on my console, its how I unwind after a rough day or night …or both. I still manage to find time to enjoy my hobby while being a full time British soldier, which the whole world knows is the most highly trained Army in the world, therefor more training and less time to myself. Luckily I aint deployed for 2 years, the last deployment was Helmand and Sangin. Doubt I’ll deploy again though, had four tours now and signed off over a year ago, but signed back on stupidly because they offered me a lot of money lol but ill be a civi again by end of June, so no more tours for me, gonna get out, get married and become a total bum lol.
As for Vanquish and Bayonetta, I’ve never played Bayonetta, was looking forward to it until I heard about the shoddy PS3 port so I’ve decided to boycott it and Vanquish is on my ‘to-do’ list. The thing is though if a game takes too long to plat or is to hard for me(I lack patience) then I won’t bother trying to plat it. Fuck knows how I got through World at War and the infinite grenade piles I found myself in every level.
And yeah I can be hyper sensitive when some one suggests I don’t do fuck all, I have done my bit and have had some very rough tours where I have lost more friends than I can count on both hands, even being there for a few of them. So please, don’t be saying I don’t do fuck all. Just because I use my PS3 to take my mind off some shit doesn’t mean I have all the time in the world. Its just how I unwind.
March 19th, 2011
Five.
“The thing is though if a game takes too long to plat or is to hard for me(I lack patience) then I won’t bother trying to plat it.”
I’m the same. Where I’ve been deployed recently (twice to Iraq between 2007 and 2009) we haven’t had the requirements for home console gaming, so counting ship time and travel since PS3 had trophies has been a bust for me over that time period.
“yeah I can be hyper sensitive when some one suggests I don’t do fuck all”
I never said that and I apologize if you somehow took it that way. All I meant was that more plats is more time spent gaming on PS3 over the last few years. You’ve been afforded more opportunity for that time than me, so you have more plats.
March 19th, 2011
Bayonetta is said to be patched and work fine on PS3.
March 19th, 2011
My first post on a Saturday, Cause I’m at work :^(
You know your a Pbot when: you think the web browser is good, just because you can access and navigate “moviefab.com” with only limited issues.
You know your a Pbot when: you rant on about 3D capability even though it will be at least 5 years till you get a 3D TV
You know your a Pbot when: you still claim the 360 has a high failure rate even though you know the new one has a lower fail rate than the PS3.
You know your a Pbot when: you think the entire internet is owned by M$ and they do the games reviews for your precious PS3
You know your a Pbot when: hearing a child cry because their 360 has died RROD makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
You know your a Pbot when: you claim Blu ray is the only movie format worth watching, when you only have 2 blu ray movies, and you can’t tell the difference between them and the DVD versions you already had.
You know your a Pbot when: the fact you cant sit anything on top of the console doesn’t bother you, even just a little bit
You know your a Pbot when: you rant on about how many AAA “excloosivz” there are even though the odds are you will only ever buy 1 or 2 of them
You know your a Pbot when: you really believe Eye Toy is not just a web cam, and with the right software is technologically superior to the Kinect hardware.
You know your a Pbot when: you already have a knot is you stomach because you have serious doubts that the PS3 will have passed 360 in total sales by the end of this year.
You know your a Pbot when: you can’t admit that M$ has entered the console market and given Sony a swift kick in the nuts
You know your a Pbot when: you wouldn’t buy the next gen Xbox even if it had the processing power of Deep Blue
You know your a Pbot when: how good a game actually is, takes second place to how well it makes use of the PS3 hardware.
March 19th, 2011
Opps typo Should read “Moviefap.com”
easy error to make when I never ever visit this site . .cough
March 19th, 2011
That was funny godless!
Nice comeback – except the PS3 browser does suck.
March 19th, 2011
“I still manage to find time to enjoy my hobby while being a full time British soldier, which the whole world knows is the most highly trained Army in the world, therefor more training and less time to myself. ”
I’m not sure what you mean. If you’re contrasting soldiers specifically, you’re dead wrong. No military unit trains harder than SEALS. SEALS are the most dangerous humans on Earth mate, and you’ll do well to remember that.
SAS and SBS cannot compare.
And trust me– Jarheads’ training is no walk in the park either, nor is SWCC or Army Rangers’ training.
March 19th, 2011
I did a 6 month stint in the Air training corps when I was 14
Once saw a guy twist his angle on parade while performing a left wheel. .left me scarred for life. .I still wake up in a cold sweat sometimes reliving that.
We’ve all had it tough, but we brits can take it
March 19th, 2011
“We’ve all had it tough, but we brits can take it”
Not me. I don’t think I could handle SEAL’s Hell Week. I don’t sleep much, but 1 week on 5 hours sleep is bollocks. Not to mention the aquaphobia I have (for the record, I’m a brilliant swimmer, and can swim across an Olympic pool no problem. I learned to swim because of my intense aquaphobia).
March 19th, 2011
To his credit, he did say “Army”. The Marine Corps is a Department of the Navy, SEALS a spec ops unit, SBS a unit of the BRN, SAS a regiment of the BA, SWCC spec ops crewmen forces of the Navy, and the Rangers an elite regiment of the Army, each with different mission spectrums and training, and none as large as an “army”.
The truth is, any unit within an army can and do suck or excel dependent upon the lack of leadership of actions of it. The same holds true with the special forces of the world. There is probably more like a top ten, or even, perhaps, top 50 units of spec-ops forces in the entire world that are truly kick ass, all trading bragging rights with each other intermittently based off of the real world experiences the units have excelled in.
March 19th, 2011
“leadership of actions”… “of” is supposed to be “or”.
March 19th, 2011
Yeah that’s why I was slightly confused — it was his wording. He said ‘soldier’, and even though he said ‘Army’, I’m pretty sure he meant ‘military’.
And if he just meant infantry, I was under the impression the Royal Marines were trained better than the BA…
March 19th, 2011
Marines is the toughest out of the 4 US forces – Army, Navy, Marines and Air Force.
March 19th, 2011
Omg birdman are you insane!? There is no military force more highly trained than the SAS!? Where the hell did you make up that shit???? The Americans even ask to use the SAS on numerous occasions for advice, the most recent when they asked the SAS on how to save the reporter, but the Americans blew her up with a grenade. Not their fault, just really bad luck. Seriously though, there is not a single person on the planet who does not know that the SAS are the worlds deadliest unit, but you, as per usual like to disagree with the facts. Honestly Birdman is this just your personal opionion or have you watched too many movies?
I honestly can’t believe some one actually suggested the SEALS are better than the SAS! My jaw was actually hanging open in shock reading that!
March 19th, 2011
You do well to remember that about the SAS Birdbrain.
Seriously though, why the fuck do you always have to be wrong! I reckon you just said that to wind me up.
The American military is much more advanced than the British and any other military, easily, without a doubt. But when it comes to training, the SAS are regarded the highest trained unit on the planet FACT.
March 19th, 2011
Oldschool, you are such a sensitive nancy sometimes. Chill out.
The SAS are well respected, no doubt. But they are NOT more elite than SEALS. Everyone in the know…er.. knows SEAL training is the most rigorous in the world, and SEAL Team 6 is the most elite SpecOps unit on Earth.
“Honestly Birdman is this just your personal opionion or have you watched too many movies?”
On my father’s side (He’s American) I have 1 Marine cousin and 5 family members in the Navy, with 1 of them a member of SWCC. I myself was trying to enlist, but I was turned away because I have asthma.
That is to say, I know what I’m talking about.
SAS train mostly on endurance, whereas SEALs train mental toughness. I’m pretty sure you’re not familiar with SEALs, seeing as how your “jaw dropped”. They are two different military units with different objectives, however the SEALs can do the SAS’s job, whereas the SAS couldn’t handle a mission requiring them to be near water. In that instance, Her Majesty would call upon the Royal Marines.
March 19th, 2011
Ok here is where you have proven you don’t know what you’re talking about:
‘The SAS can’t handle water’
Riiiiiggghht, they can’t swim.
You really have no idea what you’re on about. Even the Americans who I served with in Afghan were on about the SAS being the envy of the world. You have no idea or clue what you’re on about. You are THEE only person on the planet who must believe that. Its common knowledge about the SAS but you obviously ignore common knowledge and live by ‘Bird-knowledge’
March 19th, 2011
Just because you have distant family enlisted does not mean you know what you’re talking about. You think you know more about how the military works than me or which unit is considered the worlds elite?
You always think your right but I can’t stress this enough ‘THE SAS ARE KNOWN ALL OVER THE WORLD AS BEING THE BEST OF THE BEST’
Why do you always have to be the minority and have a random opinion of something? Everytime you comment on here you say were all wrong about something which is common knowledge(like star wars being a sci-fi) or getting caught out in lies. Roca caught you out in a few of them a couple of weeks ago as well. You excuses didn’t seem realistic as well.
I get your whole ‘America is the best’ routine because you live in the states. So I respect you prefer America over any other country but to start making shit up like your unit is more trained than the British unit is total bollocks. Its fuckiong world knowledge. The SAS get called all over the world by other governments for help. Even the Americans ask for their assistance. Why would they do that if they have a better trained unit? That makes no sense.
SEALS have better equipment, they are NOT better trained. Bullshit.
March 19th, 2011
The SAS can’t handle water lmfao! Omg they are trained in all forms of warfare. What goes on through your head?
The Queen does not call upon the Marines if there is water near by instead pmsl! If a mission requires SAS then the SAS go in. End of. You saying they have NEVER had any water based ops, ever, just because they can’t handle it? Think what you pout Birdbrain.
March 19th, 2011
1. I didn’t mean the SAS cannot swim LOL you’re really great at twisting peoples’ point. You should be on Parliament.
2. As a child of both countries (but being born in, and spent YEARS living in London) I have an equal opinion on the States and the U.K. No bias from me.
3. I didn’t say I knew MORE than you– I just said I knew my shit when talking about the SEALs and Navy. However, I’m pretty confident I know MORE than you about the US military. I was recruited by every branch of the US military upon graduating high school because I registered with the SS. I did my homework on all before deciding to enlist with either the USAF or US Navy, but was turned away because I use Advair regularly. I’m still thinking about lying and enlisting again, and perhaps joining NUKE (Navy) or trying to become a SEAL… I’m just hesitant at the moment… But believe me, my homework was done regarding the US Navy, and my uncle and cousin were enthusiastic about me joining the Navy, as well as two of my mates– that is to say, they tell me everything. I’m not sure how recruiters are in GB, but in the States they are like your brother once you commit and they tell you EVERYTHING that ain’t classified.
I KNOW what the hell I’m talking about son.
4. I see you’re still in denial about Star Wars and have been attempting to provoke a response from me on roughly 6 other articles. I truly don’t give a bloody fuck for your opinion, but the notion that Star Wars is sci-fi is utter bollocks. It is a fantasy set in space– that is all. I wouldn’t expect you to understand the intrinsics of hard/soft sci-fi or what constitutes fantasy seeing as how you got
‘Riiiiiggghht, they can’t swim.’
from
‘They are two different military units with different objectives, however the SEALs can do the SAS’s job, whereas the SAS couldn’t handle a mission requiring them to be near water.’
It’s hard debating blokes with that level of incompetence.
March 19th, 2011
I must admit, the wording of
“They are two different military units with different objectives, however the SEALs can do the SAS’s job, whereas the SAS couldn’t handle a mission requiring them to be near water.”
was exceedingly poor. I am not insinuating the SAS cannot handle a particular objective pertaining to water. I’m saying the SEALs are better prepared (ergo better trained) for skirmishes dealing with water and are par with Delta and SAS for land.
Consider any search & capture, recon, or any counter terrorism mission. Delta, SBS, Force RECON, SAS, or SEALs could handle it, no problem. However, if a mission where water training is requisite ( i.e. an oil rig takeover, sea piracy, etcetera) SEALs, more specifically DEVGRU ( aka SEAL Team 6) are unmatched.
March 19th, 2011
If you were in SEALs/SAS for thirty years and had worked 200 different missions with 20 other spec ops units throughout the world you would be better qualified to answer this subject, though your experience would still be limited in it.
Based upon my observations over the last two decades, the British Royal Marines are more disciplined and go through more rigorous training than the U.S. Marines. If there is a Mothers of Britain, they haven’t managed to soften up their Marines living/training conditions nearly as much as Mothers of America. Another factor is that the U.S. Marines have had a larger, more well-funded, efficient propaganda machine than the British Royal Marines in the last half century, so even though they may be more well known, they aren’t necessarily “better”.
This is yet another discussion on Blorge where it helps to define and know your terms. Training, living conditions, media, units, leadership at any given time, popularity, and real world experience all come into play here. There are many things SEAL team six (and any other given spec ops unit) have done that have not been released for public consumption.
This argument is daunting. Nobody has “won”, but if they were to, they would get ALL the no shit real (sometimes classified) training schedules from the last several years, then data of what actually occurred within that last several years (often classified). This is a task I don’t think anyone here is capable of, and whatever has been released on the internet or news outlets is likely limited and questionable by nature, as media and the flow of information they receive can be controlled in the US or UK.
Draw.
March 19th, 2011
At least Carl makes a very good point where as Bird makes shit up. I’m just going by what is widely regarded as face: The SAS are the envy of the world, and are more disciplined and better trained than any other unit with a higher failure rate than any other unit. Also once your ‘in’ the chances of being RTU’d are very, very high iof you don’t maintain the standards of what make the SAS the worlds best fighting unit.
And Bird, if you don’t care for my opinion, why try to explain again that Star Wars aint a sci fi when in actual fact it is. Its a sci-fi film with heavy fantasy elements. Are you saying all those ‘best sci-fi awards’ were unjustified?
March 19th, 2011
Dunno why I bother with you Bird, you’ve been proven as a liar and full of shit many times before. And you just like to disagree with the majority, just to be different.
@ Carl: About your post earlier, been at work so I forgot to reply to it, about your 5 tours. Just wanna say fair play to ya, you have my upmost respect. Stay safe if you do happen to deploy again.
March 19th, 2011
Thanks os. Cap’s alright, he’s just adamant about some things like you or I… what did he lie about? I missed that…
http://listverse.com/2010/01/11/top-10-badasses-of-the-worlds-special-forces/
March 19th, 2011
http://www.faqs.org/shareranks/1744,Best-Armies-in-the-World
March 19th, 2011
Oldschool, you’re an arse. Agree?
If you don’t, then you “just like to disagree with the majority, just to be different.”
“And Bird, if you don’t care for my opinion, why try to explain again that Star Wars aint a sci fi when in actual fact it is.”
I didn’t try to explain anything.
“Its a sci-fi film with heavy fantasy elements.”
No, it’s a fantasy film set in space/other fictitious planets. I’ve already proven this. Your mental capacity has barred you from understanding what Sci Fi is. Again, Star Wars is fantasy, Star Trek is Sci Fi, more specifically ‘soft’ Sci Fi.
“If you were in SEALs/SAS for thirty years and had worked 200 different missions with 20 other spec ops units throughout the world you would be better qualified to answer this subject, though your experience would still be limited in it.”
Hey no one was claiming to be an expert. But you don’t have to be in something to know about it. My knowledge comes from first hand (family member in SWCC– trains with SEALs) and trusted secondary sources (such as other Naval Seamen, History channel documentaries, books, etcetera). Besides you’re missing the point CB. SEALs have the most difficult and taxing training regimen, and this is inarguable. They are highly trained, with DEVGRU being the best there is. As a member of the USMC, you should know this, as you all operate as a part of the Navy. And as this is common knowledge, I fail to understand why it’s necessary to have partaken in 200+ missions to understand the SEALs have the most difficult training.
” The SAS are the envy of the world, and are more disciplined and better trained than any other unit with a higher failure rate than any other unit.”
And I’m the one making shit up….. Let me school you.
The Delta force have the highest attrition rate. SAS is roughly 90% whereas SEALs is about the same and Delta is in the mid 90s. Regarding SEALs, there have been a few years where no one graduated, out of classes of 200 seamen. 80-90%( this is a very rough estimation, as I have no solid evidence, but I get conflicting anecdotes of the 80-90% range) of sailors can’t make it through phase 1 (Hell Week).
March 19th, 2011
Seals are the best elite “teams” for impossible and off radar missions.
The SAS are more like the Delta Team of the Army – a elite military group for warfare operations.
March 19th, 2011
“Seals are the best elite “teams” for impossible and off radar missions.
The SAS are more like the Delta Team of the Army – a elite military group for warfare operations.”
Correct. SAS is analogous to Delta, whereas SEALs are analogous to SBS.
But somehow this has devolved into SAS vs SEALs. I’m not taking a foray into that territory. All I’m saying is SEAL training is the toughest there is.
March 19th, 2011
I’m not biased towards either platform but the PS3 is the system with the most power/potential. The 360 and PS3 both use the same IBM processor (but different parts of the same processor) but the PS3 definitely has more raw power and it would actually take a dev longer to use all of the PS3′s potential than the 360.
But I have to say that the Gears of War franchise is untouched when it comes to the quality, controls and graphics of the game. I haven’t seen a better looking game or played one for that matter.
There’s just certain things I use each of my systems for when it comes to games, the 360 is for hardcore gaming plus the controller is a gamers controller (or maybe it’s just that I have basketball hands).
I like playing games I know will have high quality graphics on the PS3 but I hate the controller.
The 360 is the console I play the most but I’m just waiting for a dev or devs to really commit to the PS3 on a few games to show how
March 19th, 2011
(edit)…to show how it’s unmatched when it comes to power.
March 19th, 2011
“My knowledge comes from first hand (family member in SWCC– trains with SEALs)”
You are missing the point cap. You may know about SEALs based upon second hand knowledge (family members or not), but you have little if any knowledge of other elite forces. About the most you can say truthfully is SEALs training is tough, but your claim, “SEAL training is the toughest there is,” i.e. “in the world” is BS with no real facts to back it up in comparison to other special forces units throughout the world.
Draw.
March 19th, 2011
I have heard from former military soldier (Army, Marines and Navy) that the SEALS have the toughest training (at least between US military forces) – featuring 120 hours of continuous training on less than four hours of sleep and having the highest drop out rate
http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/navy/a/navyseal.htm
Wiki
“SEAL training is very rigorous, one of the toughest training programs for special operations in the world. The drop out rate for SEAL classes is regularly 80 percent….. In total, from the time a prospective SEAL enters military service to the time a SEAL finishes his first pre-deployment training cycle, it can take as much as 30 months 2.5 years) to completely train a Navy SEAL for their first deployment”
here is my question, who will win in a match between 4 Seals vs 4 SAS?
March 19th, 2011
@carlb
I know what you play. I’m just making a joke at your expense.
March 20th, 2011
“About the most you can say truthfully is SEALs training is tough, but your claim, “SEAL training is the toughest there is,” i.e. “in the world” is BS with no real facts to back it up in comparison to other special forces units throughout the world. ”
Again, that is analogous to saying “you’ve never been to Mars, so how do you know anything about it?”
It’s all documented. SAS training is tough, but SEALs training is LEGENDARY. Surf torture and drown proofing vs rucking and climbing that mountain– I’m taking surf torture and drown proofing as being tougher.
“here is my question, who will win in a match between 4 Seals vs 4 SAS?”
Well it really boils down to the operators. But I’m always slapping my money on the table if it’s DEVGRU vs anyone.
March 20th, 2011
Jesus Cap distant relatives does not mean you are an expert! I know people who joined 22(SAS) and that don’t make me an expert. I just know what is considered to be fact, the SAS are the worlds elite that even the American military ask to use on occassions. FACT. You using the whole ‘my uncles, cousine, brother met someone who was friends with someone in the SEALS’ lie proves nothing.
And you did not prove that Star Wars is a Sci-Fi. I proved it is by showing you a list of best sci fi films with Star Wars in the top 5. Is that and all ‘best sci-fi’ list wrong and you’re right? Its a sci-fi with a fantasy story. It starts with the saying ‘a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away’ which points at it being based in reality, not on a fantasy world called middle-earth but just a long time ago in a different galaxy. Think about it and stop lying about proving it.
@ Carl: Roca caught him out in the lie about him getting all ME2 trophies, including Insanity mode completion, in one single playthrough. Because Roca done it, Bird said he done it ages ago on the Xbox, Roca checked his Gamertag and he didn’t have the insanity achievement nor a few others. Then he said he done Insanity on PS3 on 1st play through but he got game complete on any difficulty and insanity about a month apart. So he then said he got the achievement for insanity on xbox but turned the xbox off before the achievement popped up and never once again logged back into live ever since he completed ME2 over a year ago. He completed it and just stopped from that moment, using Live. That’s his excuse for why he don’t have the achievement. It don’t wash with me lol.
Bird, yes I am an arse to you, because you’re a Mr. Know-it-all proven liar. Do you disagree with this? Lol
March 20th, 2011
Oh look Bird, Calrs list puts SAS at number 1 over the SEALS. Shock! Didn’t see that one coming. This from an article that actually loks written by someone who knows what they’re talking about and has more knowledge on the subject than me and especially you, seeing as you, personally have no military background. And before you say that list is bull, Carl has not chosen any sides in this debate, so he never had an objective to prove my point correct. I bet if you were to look for a list, you would type in on Google ‘SEALS number 1 on forces list’ lol. There’s bound to be one out there written by someone like you. But I doubt it will have as much information as the one Carl posted. Nice find Carl.
March 20th, 2011
“Again, that is analogous to saying ‘you’ve never been to Mars, so how do you know anything about it?’. It’s all documented.”
Again, if you haven’t seen a fraction of the real documentation so you do not know. And that’s just the portion of the documentation that isn’t blacked out.
“Mars”? Knowing anything about it is science based observation and studies, and or the documented results of such. Don’t even begin to say that you’ve already done the same here, as if you could, it being so subjective. You have second and third hand knowledge, probably no direct observation of anything other than SEALs, so basically no real foundation for your claim.
March 20th, 2011
“Carl: Roca caught him out in the lie about him getting all ME2 trophies, including Insanity mode completion, in one single playthrough.”
No, Roca thought I was lying because he didn’t see the achievement, on account of me not updating my 360 because I don’t connect my 360 online anymore.
“Then he said he done Insanity on PS3 on 1st play through but he got game complete on any difficulty and insanity about a month apart.”
Again, THIS is a LIE. For someone looking for lies, your ability to ignore your own is fucking AMAZING. Again, you should join Parliament.
I have never said I’d done it on PS3, and admitted to purposely NOT playing on Insanity, instead electing to play through on Hardcore first. If I said what you claim I did– drop everything, quote me and prove it. Otherwise, you need to shut the fuck up.
“And you did not prove that Star Wars is a Sci-Fi. I proved it is by showing you a list of best sci fi films with Star Wars in the top 5.”
Remember the quip I made about your wife? I said that term (Sci Fi) is tossed around nonchalantly these days. Just because ignorant people put something on a list doesn’t mean “something is something”.
Science fiction means there is science driving the fiction. Please, enlighten me on the science in Star Wars. Star Wars is not using ANY science to tell it’s story. It’s core elements can be used in a multitude of genres, whereas true hard/soft science fiction CAN NOT. I need you to understand that a story like Blade Runner is science fiction because the story cannot be done without it’s science and technology.
Frankenstein is definitely Sci-Fi because science is specifically signalled by the text and yet it clearly isn’t attempting to pass itself off as real. The blue shining engines in Star Wars IV may appear to previsualise real science but there’s no explanation of them as ion engines, no retro rockets are apparent, there’s no anti-gravity effects in place on acceleration and deacceleration, etc. Thus, the space ships in Star Wars are closer to magic carpets than real space technology. Look at the T.I.E. fighters – they don’t even appear to have any propellant.
Star Wars is fucking fantasy.
March 20th, 2011
“if you haven’t seen a fraction of the real documentation you do not know”
March 20th, 2011
Nope. Star Wars is a sci-fi.
I like how your getting blown out by me and Carl and you resort to taking the piss out of a woman who has nothing to do with this. Such a woman hater. What is it with you and attacking women when your arguments fails.
As I said about the ‘updating Live’ excuse. Pathetic.
March 20th, 2011
“No, Roca thought I was lying because he didn’t see the achievement, on account of me not updating my 360 because I don’t connect my 360 online anymore.”
Well, there is a simple solution. Take a few minutes to eliminate any suspicion by connecting your 360 online. You don’t have to pay for it in order to see your achievements online.
“Blade Runner is science fiction because the story cannot be done without it’s science and technology.”
If you’ve ever hear of a thing called a Golem (the supernatural one) then you know it could be.
Question.
Do you think A.I. is science fiction or fantasy?
March 20th, 2011
“I like how your getting blown out by me and Carl and you resort to taking the piss out of a woman who has nothing to do with this.”
You are literally too stupid to insult. Ergo, I won’t.
In laymen’s terms, I didn’t blast your wife just now. I was asking you to remember a time when I did, dummy. It was pertinent.
“What is it with you and attacking women when your arguments fails.”
Is that a question, or a statement beginning with ‘What’?
Star Wars is a fantasy– you know, the kind of fantasy you’re living in.
March 20th, 2011
Also, please the “science” behind telepathy, which has been crucial to several Star Trek movies/shows.
March 20th, 2011
Hmm A.I …I’ll have to say Sci-fi. I hated at film when it was 1st released, it grown on my over time. What about Battlestar Galactica? Sure its a story about machines waging war with man but there’s a whole religious element which actually played a massive part in the end. Is that still just a sci-fi?
March 20th, 2011
Now you’re going with the ‘you’re too stupid to insult’ routine? Lmao pathetic. Can’t be that stupid when you lose every argument with me.
And you brought up the Mrs insult to remind me of all the insulting remarks you made about her, because you hate women and admitted it by saying you call all women ‘bitches’. Showing no respect whatsoever for any women.
March 20th, 2011
“Well, there is a simple solution. Take a few minutes to eliminate any suspicion by connecting your 360 online. You don’t have to pay for it in order to see your achievements online.”
Isn’t as simple as you’d think. I’ve already explained why I cannot do this in another thread. However even if I could, I still wouldn’t. This is GamerBlorge, and I learned long ago trying to…er… ” prove” ANYTHING on here is like attempting to get a cat to eat a carrot– pretty much pointless.
“If you’ve ever hear of a thing called a Golem (the supernatural one) then you know it could be.”
Yes I know what a golem is. And I’m sorry, but even with Judah Loew ben Bezalel’s golem, it still wouldn’t be Blade Runner.
“Do you think A.I. is science fiction or fantasy?”
The movie– HELL yes.
Artificial intelligence as a story element constitutes science fiction.
“Also, please [explain] the “science” behind telepathy, which has been crucial to several Star Trek movies/shows.”
I guess that’s the fiction bit, now isn’t it? Vulcans have that ability innately, the same as humans have the potential for muscular hypertrophy. They are just a fictional species and it goes without saying that they’d have an extra ability which, from a human perspective, would appear supernatural, when it is only intrinsically a part of Vulcan physiology.
March 20th, 2011
” Can’t be that stupid when you lose every argument with me.”
You’d have to be stupid to believe you have won any argument with me.
“And you brought up the Mrs insult to remind me of all the insulting remarks you made about her, because you hate women and admitted it by saying you call all women ‘bitches’. Showing no respect whatsoever for any women.”
LOL another lie. Your track record for not catching your own lies should immediately cast doubt on any claims that others are, in fact, lying. I never said all women. I said I will call a woman a bitch if I feel she deserves it, as will anyone who isn’t opposed to “foul” language. But how is this any different from you using the word ” faggot” and disrespecting homosexuals? Do you hate all homosexuals? Maybe you do, maybe you don’t, but from the little information you have on my character from these threads, I’m positive you know jack shit about who I really am, and would appreciate it if you’d refrain from libelous statements. One would eventually become fed up…
March 20th, 2011
Like a race of humanoids using the force? How is that different from Vulcans using telepathy? Using the force might appear supernatural, but it’s only a part of their physiology which is common of the races living in that galaxy, a long time ago(meaning it has a connection to reality).
You aint answered my previous question: Are all those professional movie goers who wrote articles about best sci-fi, wrong for putting Star Wars in their sci-fi list? And do remember they get paid to know which movie belongs in which genre, you don’t.
March 20th, 2011
You mean you aint fed up yet!? Jesus, hurry up and just back up those silly threats you make. Tell me Birdshit, what would happen if you become fed up, I’m dying to find out?
And you said it’s normal for you to call a woman a bitch, especially if she doesn’t deserve it. Which means you call her one anyway, more so if she deserves it. Why would a women deserve to be called a bitch? I couldn’t imagine calling my Mrs that, its disgusting.
I have no problems with gays what so ever, dunno why you’re calling them fags. Why do you always have to bring gays up anyway? Like last time you tried randomely calling me gay and then decided to post a gay picture on Blorge. That was very random. You even went as far as saying that you have seen that picture before.
And turning the ‘you’re the liar’ argument back on me doesn’t make it true. YOU got caught lying, Roca even checked your trophy dates and caught you out. I do not lie. So calling me a lie, does not make it true. So stop lying.
March 20th, 2011
“Like a race of humanoids using the force? How is that different from Vulcans using telepathy? Using the force might appear supernatural, but it’s only a part of their physiology which is common of the races living in that galaxy, a long time ago(meaning it has a connection to reality).”
Well simply put, the Force is magic, plain and simple. As anyone with a high enough midichlorian count (and in some cases, some with low to none midichlorian counts) can manipulate the Force, I reckon is isn’t innately present in just 1 or 2 species– it’s something every race in Star Wars can manipulate.
Come on– You honestly believe telekinesis, the ability to see the future and lighting coming from the tips of fingers is constituently pertinent to Sci Fiction? Get the hell out of here
“You aint answered my previous question: Are all those professional movie goers who wrote articles about best sci-fi, wrong for putting Star Wars in their sci-fi list?”
You have to remember most of these blokes aren’t conscientiously thinking about the genre to which a film belongs, and just go with the “since it’s in space, it’s Sci Fic” train of thought. If one were to seriously examine the Star War films, you’d notice it BARELY takes place in “outer space” and is usually on some planet.
“And do remember they get paid to know which movie belongs in which genre, you don’t.”
Oh the hypocrisy!
This, coming from the same dick who doesn’t trust my opinion on the video games I get paid to work on… what the feezy???
March 20th, 2011
“And turning the ‘you’re the liar’ argument back on me doesn’t make it true. YOU got caught lying, Roca even checked your trophy dates and caught you out.”
Nope, sorry. Not true.
” I do not lie. So calling me a lie, does not make it true. So stop lying.”
So the following isn’t a lie?
“Then he said he done Insanity on PS3 on 1st play through but he got game complete on any difficulty and insanity about a month apart.”
That makes YOU the liar, homeskillet.
Keep failing, sir. You complete my job for me every time.
March 20th, 2011
Erm Roca caught you out in that lie! So no, it makes me a dick for rubbing your lies in your face. It does not make me a liar. You heard Roca done it all in 1 single playthrough and you had to say ‘but I done that 1st because I’m the ME2 master’ lol. Roca got every trophy on 1 playthrough and in very good time. You, did not. Your game completion trophy and insanity trophy are a month apart. But if you meant you done it on the Xbox in 1 playthrough then I apoologize and couldn’t remember which one you said, but you did say you got all on one single playthrough. And guess what, you DO NOT even have the insanity achievement on Live. So you’re the one whoes lying.
And those ‘blokes’ should know which genre is which, its their job. So, what a shitty excuse. its a sci-fi. The majority of the planet put it squarely in the sci fi catagory. Get over it.
I love owning you, makes my day. Shame its so easy though.
March 20th, 2011
“you had to say ‘but I done that 1st because I’m the ME2 master’”
Actually, you called me that.
“And those ‘blokes’ should know which genre is which, its their job. So, what a shitty excuse. its a sci-fi. The majority of the planet put it squarely in the sci fi catagory. Get over it.”
Hmm…. The majority.
The majority of the American people voted for Bush. Twice. Was it the right thing to do?
The majority of the German nationalist party believed killing Jews was the right thing to do.
The majority of older Korean people believe all Japanese people are scumbags.
The majority of people on Youtube believe in the Illuminati and every rapper is a member.
The majority of Christians believe the Earth is 6,000-10,000 years old.
The majority of people believe the Solar System consists of 9 planets.
Ergo– fuck the majority. I deal in facts, and the fact is STAR WARS IS A BLOODY FANTASY.
Say what you’d like. I don’t really care.
March 20th, 2011
“I’m sorry, but even with Judah Loew ben Bezalel’s golem, it still wouldn’t be Blade Runner.”
Well that’s just it, if you state having unicorns, wands, and castles instead of spacecraft, guns, and deathstars wouldn’t change Star Wars story then the equivalent is that golems instead of androids wouldn’t change Blade Runner’s story.
“Artificial intelligence as a story element constitutes science fiction.”
Then C3PO and R2D2 constitutes Star Wars as science fiction.
“The blue shining engines in Star Wars IV may appear to previsualise real science but there’s no explanation of them as ion engines”
Not in the movie but in the books that back up the science behind the technology shown in the movie. The same is true for Star Trek.
“no retro rockets are apparent, there’s no anti-gravity effects in place on acceleration and deacceleration, etc… Look at the T.I.E. fighters – they don’t even appear to have any propellant.”
To use your own words, “I guess that’s the fiction bit, now isn’t it?” (it works for the force as well as it does for telepathy).
So “appearance” determines science? Please.
“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.”
Arthur C. Clarke, “Profiles of The Future”, 1961 (Clarke’s third law)
English physicist & science fiction author (1917 – )
March 20th, 2011
You obviously do care what I think, otherwise you would ignore it.
The fact remains that professional movie goers place Star Wars in the best sci-fi list. The movie has space fights, A.I, Aliens, Planets, Death Stars, Pod Racing,Laser Guns, etc.
And to top it all off Carl has provided some very good points, leaving little doubt that Star Wars IS a sci fi.
Also, Santa Clause aint real …sorry.
March 20th, 2011
“Also, Santa Clause aint real …sorry.”
Wait…. REALLY?
“Well that’s just it, if you state having unicorns, wands, and castles instead of spacecraft, guns, and deathstars wouldn’t change Star Wars story then the equivalent is that golems instead of androids wouldn’t change Blade Runner’s story.”
It’s not the same. BR is about Replicants, ergo, androids cannot be replaced. Replicants are explained, and are based in reality– just look at the life-like representations of humans Japan has been able to forge.
Also, my point about exchanging this for this and the story wouldn’t change isn’t as broad as you’re making it. And if YOU know anything about golems, you’d know THEY CAN’T SPEAK. I’m sorry, using golems was a noble attempt, however it isn’t copacetic.
“Then C3PO and R2D2 constitutes Star Wars as science fiction.”
I was waiting on this. Let’s examine what you quoted me on.
“Artificial intelligence as a story element constitutes science fiction.”
Note that I said ‘as a story element’. That is not to say having A.I.s in the story constitutes science fiction. It means if A.I.s have an integral effect on the overall plot, then it usually is science fiction.
Anyway, when you say A.I. you really should say V.I. Technically, Virtual Interfaces are true artificial intelligence, in that they have the capacity to learn and evolve over time. C3PO and R2 are more akin to robots doing as they were programmed to do, opposed to actually thinking for themselves. Notice C3PO never disobeyed. And how are 3PO and R2 any different from the bumbling sidekicks cliché?
“Not in the movie but in the books that back up the science behind the technology shown in the movie.”
Self fulfilling prophecy. OK not really, but the concept isn’t too far from this. The movies were made before any book. The books attempt to explain fiction that pretty much cannot be explained, such as the Millennium Falcon banking in the vacuum of space. Besides, we aren’t talking about “Star Wars and the expanded universe.” We’re talking about the movies.
“To use your own words, “I guess that’s the fiction bit, now isn’t it?” (it works for the force as well as it does for telepathy). ”
Nice try. Vulcan physiology is explained (more or less), whilst anti gravity and no propellant TIE fighters are not examined.
Look man, I would gladly accept Star Wars as science fiction if it was in fact sci fi. I’m a HUGE sci fi fan, and so are my parents. So much so, that I was named after one of H.G. Wells’ family members (you know which one Carl, because you know my real name). I’m not fighting against the notion that Star Wars is science fiction simply because I don’t want it to be, it’s just that it simply is not science fiction. Please enlighten me on the science (more specifically ‘psuedo science’) in Star Wars.
There is none. Star Wars is about a guy saving the galaxy. It is not
“a genre of fiction dealing with the impact of imagined innovations in science or technology, often in a futuristic setting.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sci_fi
March 20th, 2011
Star Wars is a sci-fi.
You know what I would settle for Bird? I would settle with ‘Star wars has a sci fi setting with a fantasy heavy story’ I’ve even said I would settle for that, because Star Wars does have fantasy elemants to it. But to suggest its 100% fantasy just because George Lucus decided not to bore the audiance with the technobable of the TIE fighter is ridiculous. The film is a science fiction with a fantasy plot. The story would not be the same if you took away the technology.
And I remember C3P0 doing a lot of thinking for himself, he is always wandering off on his own little adventure. If he was a mindless, ‘follow my programming’ machine, then he wouldn’t get up to much. Why would anyone make their Android camp? Its obvious its from its own A.I. Unless you’re suggestion Anakin is actually more complex than they let on? Lol
March 20th, 2011
“The story would not be the same if you took away the technology.”
Yes it would.
“But to suggest its 100% fantasy just because George Lucus decided not to bore the audiance with the technobable of the TIE fighter is ridiculous. ”
It’s not ‘just because’. There are many things unexplained in the films. I just happened to provide a few examples.
And for those of us who are actual fans of science fiction, ‘technobable’ isn’t boring. Tech being explained is pretty much a core element of science fiction, and one of the reasons we like it.
But I don’t get you. You already stated you don’t trust Lucas, yet you trust that his non-usage of ‘technobable’ was in an attempt to not bore the audience? LOL man you have some serious bollocks….
“The film is a science fiction with a fantasy plot. The story would not be the same if you took away the technology. ”
Please do not tell me you’re so thick that you didn’t recognise you contradicted your first sentence with the next one….
March 20th, 2011
Ok now you’re back to being a ignorant little prick. I was actually going to try and be nice and debate it but you’re such an arogant little shit, you resort to insults you fucking useless, lying sack of shit.
I don’t find technobable boring, all of ST: Voyager was technobable and I liked that, I’m just saying just because Lucus decided not to explain every single fucking machine doesn’t mean there isn’t a fucking explanation you retarded, pea brained, lying wanker.
Star Wars is a fucking sci-fi. Even PROFESSIONAL movie buffs agree its a fucking sci-fi. But just because a sad little, loser, loner like you who lies about everything disagrees, that makes you right? You’re so far up your own fucking arse its rediculous. Face it you’re wrong, even Carl provided some very good points that makes your ‘star wars is a sci-fi and nothing else’ argument look fucking retarded …like you.
Get a life you fucking loser. In fact get a girlfriend you woman beating prick.
March 20th, 2011
Ridiculous*
My spelling goes out the window when little losers like YOU wind me up.
March 20th, 2011
LMFAO @ the above……… oh my goodness I’m laughing my arse off… You’re such a child.
“you resort to insults”
LOL again, no I didn’t.
“your ‘star wars is a sci-fi and nothing else’ argument”
LOL I don’t think that was my position…
“rediculous.”
LOL indeed.
“you woman beating prick.”
Not LOL. Libelous statement again? I may make a request to have you banned by Mike/Dave. It’ll do you some good, perhaps.
March 20th, 2011
“My spelling goes out the window when little losers like YOU wind me up.”
http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/7/72012/1407196-u_mad1_super.jpg
March 20th, 2011
“Carl provided some very good points”
He sure did
” You sure are hypersensitive man.”
” I can tell by your comments you are really emotionally invested”
March 20th, 2011
Have me banned you fucking virgin. I’m sure they’ll listen to a little cry baby, liar like yourself. You nothing but a fucking attention seeker, constantly lying to make yourself feel important:
‘I make games’
‘I’m the best at ME2′(even though Roca is better)
‘My family is specops, which means I am qualified in all things military’
‘I can back up threats’(bullshit can you, you fucking pussy)
‘Star Wars is a sci fi, I’m right and professional writers are wrong;
‘Pokemon is THE deepest game ever’
You’re so full of shit, go back to the rock you crawled from you fucking rat. I’m getting bored of owning you, so I’m just going to insult you instead because you are one boring POS. Maybe I can get you brave enough to back up a threat. But I doubt it, because we all know you’re fuck all.
March 20th, 2011
Oh another bullshit, attention seeking statement I forgot:
‘I have had women that you can’t even dream of’
Lmfao I fucking doubt it, you don’t even leave your fucking chair. you brag about spending more time on the console than anyone else on Blorge. You even spent your Friday night playing Halo with ‘friends’ you fucking loser.
There’s more bullshit attention seeking statements that will come to me later. Your a joke and I always laugh AT the shit you write.
March 20th, 2011
“‘I make games’”
never said that.
“‘I’m the best at ME2?(even though Roca is better)”
never said that (please remove yourself from his dick)
“‘My family is specops, which means I am qualified in all things military’”
never said that
“‘I can back up threats’(bullshit can you, you fucking pussy)”
Aww…. Need Kleenex?
“‘Star Wars is a sci fi, I’m right and professional writers are wrong;”
Again you idiot, the former is YOUR position, whilst the latter I never said.
“‘Pokemon is THE deepest game ever’”
never said that.
Hmm 5 lies, a fail and a cry.
Face it OldRacistSupporter, you do my job brilliantly.
March 20th, 2011
“And if YOU know anything about golems, you’d know THEY CAN’T SPEAK. I’m sorry, using golems was a noble attempt, however it isn’t copacetic.”
Well we are talking about fantasy after all, so there doesn’t have to be any rules. For the sake of this argument they can. Magically.
“It means if A.I.s have an integral effect on the overall plot”
Yes. They are both integral to the plot. Without them and their abilities others who are also integral to the plot would have died.
“Notice C3PO never disobeyed”
Notice R2D2 did.
“the Millennium Falcon banking in the vacuum of space.”
Science fiction isn’t allowed to have fictional elements now?
“Vulcan physiology is explained (more or less)”
Less. I have yet to see in the movies/shows where vulcan telepathy is explained via vulcan physiology.
“whilst anti gravity and no propellant TIE fighters are not examined.”
Does a technology really have to be “examined” in a movie now in order for it to be included in a movie? …”hello moviegoers, we are now going to spend the next half hour examining how this piece of tecnology works instead of moving on witht the plot”… please.
“Star Wars is about a guy saving the galaxy. It is not ‘a genre of fiction dealing with the impact of imagined innovations in science or technology, often in a futuristic setting.’”
Star Wars is about several individuals saving the galaxy, and good and evil. These elements do not necessitate fantasy. Star Wars does deal with the impact of innovations in science or technology (deathstars, robots, genetics, energy, spaceships, insterstellar space travel and colonizations, etc.).
You could replace BR’s Replicants with a made up supernatural being and the story would not change.
You could replace all the technology in an sci-fi with a similar enough supernatural counterpart (it doesn’t have to be preexisting in literature or folktale) and the outcome of the story could be the same. However, it would no longer be science fiction then, it would be fantasy.
Star Wars is primarily a science fiction movie because of the predominant impact of how technology is used and it’s impact.
March 20th, 2011
He seems to forget that a whole Star Wars film is dedicated to a science fiction element and that is Clones. Clones are sci-fi/fact and not fantasy. Were they made with magic mongo?
And no, you never said those things exactly word for word but that is the gist of what you said, so stop kidding yourself.
I see you’re going with to “you are a racist’ routine again. You do that when you have no argument. Find me proof where I have said anything even slightly racist or you admit you are lying. If you want I can’t post the comments of the quotes that I took the piss out of. I even stuck a few of them in my favourites because I knew you would deny them one day. Shall I? Lol
Star Wars IS a sci fi. Unless Episode 2 doesn’t count?
And Carl was right (again), R2 did disobey orders.
March 20th, 2011
Also Vulcan telepathy is never explained. It was touched upon during Enterprise with T’pol when it was considered Taboo but that was it. Bird wrong again.
March 20th, 2011
“Well we are talking about fantasy after all, so there doesn’t have to be any rules. For the sake of this argument they can. Magically. ”
Then they wouldn’t be golems. Besides, you and I both know golems cannot speak and are made of some kind of soil or clay. If you’ve watched Blade Runner (which I’m sure you have), you’d know the core issue was not being able to tell a Replicant from a human. You mean to tell me Blade Runner would have worked with a 12 foot clay monster that cannot speak? I say that’s BS.
“Yes. They are both integral to the plot. Without them and their abilities others who are also integral to the plot would have died.”
Which is why R2 and 3PO are Carl Jungian archetypes, no?
http://wdb.sad17.k12.me.us/teachers/bburns/com/documents/scripts/star_wars.htm
“Science fiction isn’t allowed to have fictional elements now?”
Not saying that, but as a science fiction fan, you should understand the realism inherent to science fiction. In all the Sci Fi I’ve seen/read, nothing is as fantastical (there’s that word again ) as the elements in Star Wars. True Sci Fi is realistic to the point that it is fathomable in the realm of speculative theory. Banking in a vacuum is not.
“Notice R2D2 did.”
You got me there. But I chalk that up to R2 being either programmed that way, or his personality is a plot device. He obviously was comic relief, starkly contrasting Mark Hamill’s campy acting.
“Less. I have yet to see in the movies/shows where vulcan telepathy is explained via vulcan physiology.”
LOL You don’t pay attention then. Spock (young) specifically explains it’s a part of Vulcan physiology in the 2009 film, and performs it twice (Old Spock performs it on young Kirk, and young Spock performs it on a dead Romulan).
“Does a technology really have to be “examined” in a movie now in order for it to be included in a movie? …”hello moviegoers, we are now going to spend the next half hour examining how this piece of tecnology works instead of moving on witht the plot”… please.”
Which is my fucking point. Star Trek does that (obviously not to that extreme). Star Wars doesn’t even explain how a lightsaber works! Nor how they’re made– you have KOTOR to thank for that. If the science isn’t explained, attempted at an explanation, or even a cornerstone of the story– IT IS NOT SCI FI. Which part are you blokes having trouble understanding?
” Star Wars does deal with the impact of innovations in science or technology (deathstars, robots, genetics, energy, spaceships, insterstellar space travel and colonizations, etc.).”
This is a fallacy. No it does not. Again, the Deathstar is a fortress. Robots have no overall impact on the story, spacecraft are analogous to magic capets and horses, interstellar space travel can be rewritten as intercontinental sea/air travel, and colonies honestly was the weakest one Carl. Come on.
“You could replace BR’s Replicants with a made up supernatural being and the story would not change.”
You could and it wouldn’t, I agree. However at that point it would cease to be a science fiction film. Sorry, but you have just proven my point.
The filmmakers have said Star Wars isn’t science fiction. Why are we having this discussion?
(Carl, I honestly am appreciative of the intellectual way you have addressed this issue. I know you’re not too fond of me, but at least you respond to me like an adult. I don’t get too mentally strained when debating an intelligent human being, like I do with….others)
March 20th, 2011
“I see you’re going with to “you are a racist’ routine again.”
To be fair, I said “supporter”.
“If you want I can’t post the comments of the quotes that I took the piss out of.”
Err…. huh?
“And Carl was right (again), R2 did disobey orders.”
Being specific, R2 never really disobeyed his “true” master/owner. Most of the time his defiance was toward 3PO, others against enemies. So I guess my point still stands.
March 20th, 2011
Ok find a comment where I have said I am in full support of the BNP. What I said was ‘I support a FEW of their ideas’ the rest of them make me sick. You just make the rest up and assume I am racist, even though I have black family members and even they like a few of the ideas but BNP in power is definitely a no. Too unpredictable. But you go ahead and call me a racist supporter. Where have I said I support racism?
March 20th, 2011
Oldschool, you have as much evidence that I’m a liar as I do that you’re racist.
That is to say, none.
But I called you a racist supporter, meaning you support a racist. I don’t care if you support a half of an idea he barks, you’re supporting a racist scumbag.
My reasoning is this. If someone is a known racist, fuck anything that comes out their mouth.
Again.
Not.
Calling.
You.
A.
Racist.
You are a hypersentitve ponce usually though. Like a clitoris.
March 20th, 2011
Like you know what a clit is.
So do you like Braveheart? Or Leathel Weapon? Mel Gibson is a known racist, if you like his films, you like racism. That’s about as much sense as you’re making with that statement.
I like a few of their ‘non racist’ views. Is your brain that small that you can’t grasp that concept? I think it is, you seem to struggle with it, big time.
As for your proof you’re lying? Well, I have the page added to favourites where you said you completed ME2 the 1st time on Insanity difficulty and got all the achievements and I also have your Gamertag page, showing that you infact do not. Didn’t you even say you completed ME2 on the xbox many times? So if you completed ME2 on Insanity the very 1st time, shouldn’t the achievement show up iof you have completed it many times since? Hmm… Shall I link the page where you lied?
You have ABSOLUTELY NO proof I am racist. Everything about me suggests different. I have black family members, my best friend ever called Marshy is black, I serve in the Army with people of all races and trust them with my life, I have never once said anything even slightly racist. Io challenge you to prove me wrong, you will fail. You’re just too sensitive and think that everyone is racist. I see you use the racist card far too much.
And also, Star Wars is a sci-fi. Its in hundreds of top sci fi movies lists written by professionals.
Clones are 100% based in science. The main title of the 2nd movie is ‘Attack of the Clones’ were the clones created with magic or a lab?
March 20th, 2011
Let me just clarify my previous comment in case you don’t understand my point: I like Mel Gibson, I think he is an amazing actor and director, that how ever does not mean I support every single thing he has ever done, like racism or Forever Young lol. I don’t understand how you can’t grasp the concept. I’m Labour but all I said is that they could do with using a few of the BNPs ideas, which you just take as ‘I hate all minorities and want them all dead because I am racist’. If I was racist, I would be calling you names by now, but I find that sort of behaviour disgraceful. So fucking get ast the racist shit, its fucking boring.
I just think you’re the racist one really. You always seem to bring it up, like you want some of us to be racist. Is that so it makes you feel better about yourself being a racist?
See how I can just jump to conclusions, like you?
March 20th, 2011
“Like you know what a clit is.”
The thingy you’re speaking with right? You put food in it, and it has teeth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaginal_teeth
“So do you like Braveheart? Or Leathel Weapon? Mel Gibson is a known racist, if you like his films, you like racism. That’s about as much sense as you’re making with that statement.”
My personal feelings for his films aside, his movies have an infantismal amount to do with his real-life feelings, because he’s an (say it with me) ACTOR. Braveheart isn’t politics, nor racially charged. I fail to see the relevance, or analogous relationship between our discussion and the merits of someone who doesn’t believe in the words coming out his mouth because he’s acting.
I bet you felt you had a valid argument with that LOL you probably did a little fist pump hahaha
“As for your proof you’re lying? Well, I have the page added to favourites where you said you completed ME2 the 1st time on Insanity difficulty and got all the achievements and I also have your Gamertag page, showing that you infact do not.”
Yeah, and we’ve been through this already. Your suspicion is not equal to proof. You fail to realise that. Moving along.
“You have ABSOLUTELY NO proof I am racist.”
Bloody hell. I feel like I’m talking to a fucking (empty) cup. I’ll just ignore this ignorance.
“You’re just too sensitive”
What was that about the pot and the kettle?
“And also, Star Wars is a sci-fi. Its in hundreds of top sci fi movies lists written by professionals.”
I wouldn’t say hundreds. But I’m a professional QA tech. Why didn’t you accept my reasoning that Borderlands is an RPG? You can’t pick and choose mate.
“because I am racist”
Finally. Admittance.
That was a joke.
“I just think you’re the racist one really. You always seem to bring it up, like you want some of us to be racist. Is that so it makes you feel better about yourself being a racist?”
Sure. You are entitled to your opinion. But my circle attests to my open mindedness. I am no bigot. You may choose to believe otherwise, as you do with everything.
“See how I can just jump to conclusions, like you?”
LOL Oh please. That is Oldschool’s modus operandi. Take this thread for instance. Before Carl became your “helping you combat The Captain hero”, he was a “prick”, ” a cheeky fuck”, who’s “wank at games” and he was assuming you “don’t do fuck all”.
In fact, you said this
“And yeah I can be hyper sensitive”
So me saying again and again you aren’t racist is jumping the gun then?
I can see how highly the Queen’s army is trained, no doubt.
March 20th, 2011
Lol you seriously going to take the piss out of the British Army? The most recognised highly trained Army in the world? Shows how much you know lol.
Your ME2 achievement explanation failed.
And the Mel Gib example was relevant, you’re saying because I like one thing of the BNPs means I like every single idea of theirs and support them 100% so if you like any single thing of Mel then you’re also in support of his racism.
I take back what I said to Carl, was me getting pissed off easily again, I have a short temper, always have.
You on the other hand, I don’t take back anything, you are always a know it all knob, on every single post.
Borderlands is a FPS with RPG elemants but the the game is from the 1st person perspective and its also a shooter.
And its not suspicion, its proof. You do not have the achievement, even though you said you completed the game many times after, so the achievement should have shown up. You got caught in the lie.
March 20th, 2011
Sure Oldschool.
Make sure your chinstrap is tight enough so your helmet doesn’t slip buddy.
March 20th, 2011
What are you saying sure too? Surely you don’t think the American Army is better trained?
If England went to war with America, England would get its arse kicked 10x over, easily. You’d blow us off the map, there’s no doubt at all but when it comes to training, Englands is the highest there is. That’s just fact, even American soldiers know that. You, who has no military background disagrees? Shock.
If you meant sure to something else then I apologize but I just assume you meant the one you were most likely to disagree with: the one that is common knowledge but you have a habit of disagreeing.
March 20th, 2011
“If you meant sure to something else”
This.
“If England went to war with America, England would get its arse kicked 10x over, easily. You’d blow us off the map,”
I have a problem with ‘You’d’.
I. Am. English.
Sure I have dual citizenship, but I am an Englishman.
March 20th, 2011
“Then they wouldn’t be golems.”
So there is only one type of supernatural golem now that adheres to strict rules and regulations of golem conduct now? Come on.
“the core issue was not being able to tell a Replicant from a human.”
Golem, vampire, whatever. You can make a supernatural being that is indistinguishable from a human to most. It’s made up. You can make up anything.
“Which is why R2 and 3PO are Carl Jungian archetypes, no?”
And Jungian archetypes cannot exist in a sci-fi?
Just because a story shares some elements of myth does not mean it is a fantasy. Joseph Campbell could have told you that.
“Banking in a vacuum is not.”
Why? Because it is not apparent to you how it accomplished this feat? Science fiction is about future technology and future science that is not necessarily explainable by the laws of today’s science. Science in the past has been proven wrong time and again, and therefore future technology will not necessarily obey today’s laws or understanding of science.
“You got me there.”
Thank you.
“Spock (young) specifically explains it’s a part of Vulcan physiology in the 2009 film, and performs it twice (Old Spock performs it on young Kirk, and young Spock performs it on a dead Romulan).
Saying it is a part of one’s physiology is not explaining it. But even so, that was the 2009 film. What you are essentially saying is all the previous Star Treks shown were fantasy simply because they did not explain telepathy.
“In all the Sci Fi I’ve seen/read, nothing is as fantastical (there’s that word again ) as the elements in Star Wars.”
Well, at least now you do admit it is sci-fi.
That’s good.
In other words, it is the most fiction based sci-fi you have ever seen/read.
“(obviously not to that extreme). Star Wars doesn’t even explain how a lightsaber works!”
So sci-fi doesn’t have to explain how tech works, and they certainly did not in early episodes of Star Trek. As long as it is recognized visually as some sort of technology, alien or otherwise, it is still technology, whether or not it can be explained by todays limited fields of science.
“Again, the Deathstar is a fortress.”
Built with science driven technology.
“Robots have no overall impact on the story”
Practically all the main characters would have died in the first movie shown in theaters. I would call that an “impact”.
“spacecraft are analogous to magic capets and horses”
Except they are spacecraft, not “magic carpets and horses”.
“interstellar space travel can be rewritten as intercontinental sea/air travel”
But it wasn’t. It was written as interstellar travel with spaceships. Technology. Sci-fi.
“colonies honestly was the weakest one Carl. Come on.”
Again kap. How did the colonies get there and how do they survive and thrive? Technology. Sci-fi.
“You could and it wouldn’t, I agree. However at that point it would cease to be a science fiction film.”
To use your words, “Sorry, but you have just proven my point.” Replace all the technology in Star Wars with supernatural objects or beings and it would cease to be a science fiction film. As it is now, it is science fiction.
“The filmmakers have said Star Wars isn’t science fiction.”
They didn’t say it was fantasy either. Just because a movie shares historical, psychological, and mythological elements such as heroes and princesses does not mean it is necessarily a fantasy movie over a sci-fi. Dune has the same characteristics and it is also a sci-fi because of the impact of the technology used and it being integral to the story. The filmakers also say there are laws of physics in Star Wars, they are just different than the ones here.
“I know you’re not too fond of me”
Fond enough to keep you as a friend on FB and enjoy our discussions here on blorge. Friends disagree and argue about a lot of things, it doesn’t mean they can’t still be friends.
“at least you respond to me like an adult.”
Best practice, regardless of who you are dealing with. I think OS is intelligent, he just loses his patience with some things as both you and I have in the past.
March 21st, 2011
“So there is only one type of supernatural golem now that adheres to strict rules and regulations of golem conduct now? Come on.”
That’s exactly what I’m saying. By definition, golems cannot think for themselves, are made of clay, and cannot speak. Your name is not Noah Webster, so I am disinclined to acquiesce to your definition.
Golems cannot replace Replicants in BR and it remain science fiction.
“Golem, vampire, whatever. You can make a supernatural being that is indistinguishable from a human to most. It’s made up. You can make up anything.”
Right. But all you’re doing is proving my point. Once the element of the supernatural becomes integral to a plot, it ceases to be science fiction.
“And Jungian archetypes cannot exist in a sci-fi?Just because a story shares some elements of myth does not mean it is a fantasy. Joseph Campbell could have told you that.”
Damnit Carl, you know that wasn’t my point– Stop that.
I was simply stating that R2 and 3PO are Jungian archetypes, and any being could fit into their roles and saved the lives of the main characters.
“Why? Because it is not apparent to you how it accomplished this feat? Science fiction is about future technology and future science that is not necessarily explainable by the laws of today’s science. Science in the past has been proven wrong time and again, and therefore future technology will not necessarily obey today’s laws or understanding of science.”
Firstly, the film is set a long time ago. So you’ve inadverdently admitted Star Wars cannot be science fiction because “Science fiction is about future technology and future science that is not necessarily explainable by the laws of today’s science.”
Secondly (because I’m 99.9999999% sure you’ll ignore that and continue), banking is a result of air molecules in an atmosphere acting on the surface of an aircraft. If there are no air molecules present (vis-a-vis, the vacuum of space), banking will not occur. This has been demonstrated over and over, using the scientific method, so it is one of the sciences that will not yield over time. Besides, the science you’re talking about is medieval, and it wasn’t subjected to the scientific method and peer review. And even if our understanding became better, the concepts usually didn’t change. (Did you know gravity hasn’t yet been proved? But just because it hasn’t doesn’t mean apples float pending our understanding of it. So miss me with that ‘science changes’ BS. The NAMES and medications change, but the concepts remain the same)
So please explain to me, HOW and WHY the Millennium Falcon banks in open space. If you have no explanation, you have to accept that Star Wars is fantasy until, in the distant future, when it is proved that banking can happen in space. Then you’ll have some weight to this exceedingly weak argument.
“Saying it is a part of one’s physiology is not explaining it. But even so, that was the 2009 film. What you are essentially saying is all the previous Star Treks shown were fantasy simply because they did not explain telepathy.”
Look, it’s a part of alien physiology. That’s the explanation. If it’s alien, it’s beyond human intellectual capacity, until explained. The supernatural cannot be verified by scientific means, by definition. Telepathy would be supernatural, if it wasn’t a part of alien physiology. Take that or leave it, but disagreeing would be akin to saying aliens in our plane of existence wouldn’t have abilities beyond human capability, and that’s nonsensical.
“Well, at least now you do admit it is sci-fi.
That’s good.
In other words, it is the most fiction based sci-fi you have ever seen/read. ”
Incorrect. That just means you’ve failed to comprehend my sentence, or you’re being a bloody spinster.
What I was saying is that compared to true science fiction, Star Wars is much too fantastic to be in the same spectrum.
“Built with science driven technology.”
So a fortress couldn’t be built of brick and stone? Come off it, I never stated technology doesn’t exist in Star Wars. It (technology) just simply isn’t core to the film’s plot. You know that. Stop playing devil’s advocate. Or am I giving you too much credit?
“To use your words, “Sorry, but you have just proven my point.” Replace all the technology in Star Wars with supernatural objects or beings and it would cease to be a science fiction film. As it is now, it is science fiction.”
I knew you’d try that. However a defense has already been prepared.
Star Wars already is a fantasy– it’s just set on other worlds and occasionally in space. The lightsaber isn’t made up technology– it’s a samurai sword/zweihander. Empires, princesses, magic and wizards are all present, and are referred to as such. Please, without being obvious and unintelligent by saying ‘Star Wars’, give me ONE inarguable science fiction that has
1. An Empires
2. princesses
3. Magic
4. wizards
5. knights
and within the story refers to these elements as Empires, princesses, magic, knights and wizards.
You can’t. Because if it has all these, it’s fantasy.
“They didn’t say it was fantasy either.”
Lucas DID say it was fantasy. I provided a link before– do I need to again?
“I think OS is intelligent”
You are very generous. I’d like to visit your home on Christmas
March 21st, 2011
More intelligent than you Birdbrain, I’ve blown you out on every article we have ever argued on lol. Anyway I’m in a better mood now so let’s stop being little hormonal girls, ok?
You said once there is supernatural elements, it ceases to be sci-fi, does that mean The X Files is a fantasy?
And it was a long time ago to us in our little corner of this Galaxy, but in the Galaxy it is set in, the technology created is futuristic. Do you think they just found the lightsaber whilst inventing the wheel? They would have had a past with no Tech and in their future(Star Wars present time) they have ships, FTL travel, Sabers, etc. Just saying just because their future is set in our past doesn’t null the fact the film starts with a line that sets it in reality.
As for the banking in space, that can be put down to an error you see in near enough every single sci fi film, there’s even sound in space during the battles, which is impossible. There is no sound in space, they put it all in for dramatic purposes only, like the banking. I think you’re looking to much into that one if I am honest.
Battlestar Galactica is set also very far into the past, its still a science fiction with futuristic technology to us humans on Earth but for the race who use it in the program its not futuristic, its the norm.
March 21st, 2011
“Just saying just because their future is set in our past doesn’t null the fact the film starts with a line that sets it in reality.”
Who’s to say Middle-Earth and Xanth aren’t in another galaxy?
“More intelligent than you Birdbrain, I’ve blown you out on every article we have ever argued on”
Perhaps you are more intelligent than Birdbrain. But I don’t know him, and judging by the name, I’d say the bloke is pretty thick, so it ain’t really worth bragging about.
However you’ve yet to best me.
“You said once there is supernatural elements, it ceases to be sci-fi, does that mean The X Files is a fantasy?”
Very good point. What would you classify X-Files?
Me personally, I’d say (since the stories are, for the most part, self-contained vignettes with little effect on other episodes, if any at all) the X-Files is mainly science fiction. Some episodes are pure science fiction, whilst others are pure fantasy. Agree?
“As for the banking in space, that can be put down to an error you see in near enough every single sci fi film, there’s even sound in space during the battles, which is impossible”
2009 Star Trek got it right….
“I think you’re looking to much into that one if I am honest.”
We’re trying to classify something, so we have to pick it apart. I’ve already done this in genre studies in college, though, and it was specifically about Star Wars. Pretty much everyone came to the conclusion Star Wars isn’t science fiction. Lucas already said he didn’t make Star Wars science fiction films. I’ve already provided endless links, arguments and rebuffs, but you’re going to believe what you want, so what’s the purpose of always bringing it up and asking questions if you aren’t going to change your mind, even in the face of evidence?
March 21st, 2011
‘Some episodes are pure science fiction, whilst others are pure fantasy. Agree?’
You know that’s exactly how I would catagorize Star Wars though! Some of it is pure science fiction while most of the plot is pure fantasy! Come on, do you really believe the film has no sci-fi in it at all? I’ve said it countless times now: I would settle with Star Wars is a scifi/fantasy, the plot devices are fantasy, the setting is scifi. Come on Bird, meet us half way lol.
As for X-Files, I grew up thinking of it as a sci fi, I can’t change my opinion. Plus there is the fact that every single episode, Scully was the scientist who found the scientific explanation for everything, which satisfied me enough lol.
March 21st, 2011
Wow. .again you two at it!.
You know they say opposites attract. . you guys would make the perfect gay couple. . .LOL (that was a joke ok)
I used to have a gym teacher who would have put you guys in the ring with each other for 3 minutes. (full Queensberry rules and all that)
You’d be amazed at how often that turned hatred to a friendship afterwards.
Not sure it would do the same here, but It would be great to watch
March 21st, 2011
“By definition, golems cannot think for themselves, are made of clay, and cannot speak. Your name is not Noah Webster, so I am disinclined to acquiesce to your definition.”
By definition:
“1. an artificially created human being that is given life by supernatural means”
or better yet, and more in line with your inclination to “acquiesce”:
“1: an artificial human being in Hebrew folklore endowed with life”
http://www.merriam-WEBSTER.com/dictionary/golem
The definition does not state golems cannot think for themselves (btw the one in Dragon Age does), have to be made of clay (again, non-clay ones do exist in Dragon Age), or cannot speak (yet again, the ones in Dragon Age do).
For some further insight into supernatural similarities and how the ideas can evolve: “7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.”
“I was simply stating that R2 and 3PO are Jungian archetypes, and any being could fit into their roles and saved the lives of the main characters.”
Yes. And I was simply stating that they are robots based upon technology, not supernatural fantasy, which is more key to this discussion than archetypes that could fit into any genre.
“Firstly, the film is set a long time ago. So you’ve inadverdently admitted Star Wars cannot be science fiction because ‘Science fiction is about future technology and future science that is not necessarily explainable by the laws of today’s science.’”
“future technology” for us doesn’t mean it is past or present technology in another dimension, in which the creator already explained this film was set.
“banking is a result of air molecules…”
The creator already explained the film was set in a different dimension with different laws of physics.
“the science you’re talking about is medieval, and it wasn’t subjected to the scientific method and peer review.”
I’m not sure you have any inkling how embryonic the human race is compared to the age of the universe, or the possibility that other humans (let alone aliens) can exist in another galaxy, with their own science and technology, before our own scientific method was ever discovered.
“So miss me with that ‘science changes’ BS. The NAMES and medications change, but the concepts remain the same)”
~Hello~ “different dimension” and “different laws”…
“So please explain to me, HOW and WHY the Millennium Falcon banks in open space.”
Perhaps if I was an extraterrestrial from another dimension who happened to design spaceships and know the laws of the dimension I could. Alas, I am not, and neither are you. Suffice it to say it is technology that exists in another dimension.
“Look, it’s a part of alien physiology. That’s the explanation. If it’s alien, it’s beyond human intellectual capacity, until explained.”
That’s fine. Then the same rule applies to technology from another dimension.
“The supernatural cannot be verified by scientific means, by definition.”
So everything that cannot be verified by scientific means is “supernatural”? Really? Are you SURE that’s what you want to go with?
http://reyadel.wordpress.com/2009/04/13/13-baffling-scientific-mysteries/
Wait Mr. Scientist, Kap’s got an explanation, it’s “supernatural”!
lol
“disagreeing would be akin to saying aliens in our plane of existence wouldn’t have abilities beyond human capability, and that’s nonsensical.”
exactly. Let’s not apply rules such as this to one and not the other.
“It (technology) just simply isn’t core to the film’s plot.”
It is core to the plot. I just got through reminding you that hardly any of the main characters of said plot would have survived without that technology in the very first aired film.
“give me ONE inarguable science fiction that has 1. An Empires 2. princesses 3. Magic 4. wizards 5.knights… and within the story refers to these elements as Empires, princesses, magic, knights and wizards.”
Already did. Dune. And where specifically does Star Wars state the words “Magic” or “Wizard”?
“Lucas DID say it was fantasy. I provided a link before– do I need to again?”
Please do. And while you’re at it quote where he specifically said it was solely a “fantasy”.
“Who’s to say Middle-Earth and Xanth aren’t in another galaxy?”
No one, they just use magic and magical beings more than technology and aliens in those worlds.
“2009 Star Trek got it right…”
What you are essentially saying is previous Star Treks shown were fantasy because they happened to make mistakes in their science when portraying it?
March 21st, 2011
“’future technology’ for us doesn’t mean it is past or present technology in another dimension, in which the creator already explained this film was set.”
should be “doesn’t mean it cannot be”
March 21st, 2011
““And if YOU know anything about golems, you’d know THEY CAN’T SPEAK. I’m sorry, using golems was a noble attempt, however it isn’t copacetic.””
Frankenstein spoke, and he was a flesh golem.
March 21st, 2011
Star Wars is mentioned on the wiki page for science fiction.
It’s in a science fiction sub genre known as space western.
March 21st, 2011
Sorry birdnan
Star Wars is sci-fi, no matter how you slice it because science can change, theories can be wrong, have been in the past and theories proven….
Remember the earth was flat once…..guess at the time when the wolrld was so sure it was right…like you believe to be right now, only to have some one, in this case carlb, come and prove you wrong….
Millennium falcon banking can theoritically bank…whose to say humans built it….or who originally built it it could be alien….and if its alien it doesn’t need to be explained remember?
Also, whose to say things have to be as you say…golems DO NOT have to be made of clay to be a golem…they could made up of metals as well, check out battlechasers for an example of a war Goldman….
You seem to have this idea that things have to be black and white in order to meet certain requirements but you are forgetting the core part of a story…imagination that’s why its fiction to begin with…..
March 21st, 2011
Anyone remember Creepshow 2, and the Wood Golem?
March 21st, 2011
You know you’re an xbot when.
You buy a PS3 but only played five games, and claim you know what you’re talking about when it comes to PS3 games
and I played over 30 PS3 games mostly exclusives and therefore I know more than Ivan PSP.
and what the f*ck is with all these bloody comments appearing left right center you guys have shamefully decended into a flame war and as the 360 graphical advanges that only really counts for the GPU which has been superceded by the CELL processor which can rival the PC in terms of graphics and just to prove my point your only an Xbot if you belive the CELL processor sucks a**e and the PS3 has no games with graphics so bad that HALO 1 looks better.
your only an Xbot if you have sasuge fingers and speak like a chav and smell of p*ss or at that what one of the xbots that I know of looks like and he is really stupid.
March 21st, 2011
““And if YOU know anything about golems, you’d know THEY CAN’T SPEAK. I’m sorry, using golems was a noble attempt, however it isn’t copacetic.””
Frankenstein spoke, and he was a flesh golem
and add the golem mr pump 17 from terry pratchett going postal (he could speack as well and in disc wotld the golems have these things called unions and they have their golem rights).
March 21st, 2011
Interesting Phranc.
I always considered frankenstein’s monster a zombie, but technically he IS a golem.
Regarding his ‘speech’, he’d would not be indistinguishable from a real human, as in Blade Runner though. He couldn’t speak as eloquently as you and I.
March 21st, 2011
Changelings would work as well. Along with gods, demons, angels, spirits, kitsune, etc.
March 21st, 2011
Yeah, but again, at that point Blade Runner would cease to be science fiction. Within the story, if supernatural events occur, it is no longer science fiction. It becomes fantasy.
March 21st, 2011
Yes, but again, at that point Star Wars would cease to be science fiction. Within the story, if you replaced all the technology used with supernatural counterparts as you proposed, it is no longer science fiction. It becomes fantasy.
March 21st, 2011
It always was fantasy. You can choose to believe otherwise, but the fact remains that GL himself said it isn’t Sci Fi.
“We look at it as a different dimension. The laws of physics are different here. Star Wars is not science fiction at all. It’s much more attuned to mythology, to psychology, to history than it is to science.”
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/movies/news/a122091/lucas-star-wars-is-not-sci-fi.html
As you are not a filmmaker, or the creator of Star Wars, I think your opinion is invalid.
March 21st, 2011
No it was not. The fact remains that GL himself never placed it solely in another genre, yet he did say the film took place in a different “dimension” and admitted the “laws of physics” within that dimension, i.e. two major element of science within that universe.
He wanted focus to be directed to the archetypes within “mythology, psychology, and history” (which can be found within any genre) instead of the technology contained within the film, which, by definition, makes the film “science fiction”.
“As you are not a filmmaker, or the creator of Star Wars, I think your opinion is invalid.”
Wait a sec. I thought it was because I wasn’t Webster. Then I provided you Webster’s definition and now we’ve moved on to filmaker?
Very well:
Steven Spielberg: “The last time I came out of a movie feeling that way it was the first time I saw Star Wars.” … “The most evocative and amazing science-fiction movie since Star Wars.”
lol
March 21st, 2011
Seems you missed this part
“or the creator of Star Wars”
“lol” indeed.
Lucas says it isn’t. Therefore, it isn’t. Simple. Easy to remember.
March 21st, 2011
Oldschool & Captbirdman,
What the hell is the matter with you 2? You guys are arguing over bullshit. Racism…Mel Gibson…damn guys it’s March Madness lighten up!
March 21st, 2011
Beware the Ides of March
March 22nd, 2011
“damn guys it’s March Madness lighten up!”
Cardiac Kemba!! With the stepback!!!
But you’re missing Oldschool. He thinks basketball is boring.
LMFAO x 100000000000000000000
March 22nd, 2011
Bird find me a quote where I said ‘Basketball is boring’
I don’t like any sport except Boxing, that’s it and that’s because that’s the only sport I’m good at.
Football(Soccer), I have two left feet.
Basketball: well I am white so I can’t jump lmao. Plus I’m British and that sport isn’t popular over here, mainstream, kids play it in school though, that’s it.
Rugby: Much better than any other sport I mention(except Boxing) due to the fact it’s brutal and doesn’t require body armour lol.
March 22nd, 2011
“Basketball: well I am white so I can’t jump lmao. Plus I’m British and that sport isn’t popular over here, mainstream, kids play it in school though, that’s it.”
You can be a fucking riot when you aren’t “being [a] little hormonal girl”.
But I can’t be arsed to find the quote, mate, but you did say it, or at the very least insinuated it.
It was when I claimed today’s footie bores me. Remember?
March 22nd, 2011
You know what I probably did say it, I’ve never been in to Basketball. Don’t mean it’s not a good sport just because I don’t like it though, I’m just more into violent sports lol.
‘You can be a fucking riot when you aren’t “being [a] little hormonal girl”’
Always had a temper pal and get pissed off very easy, I do regret some of the things I post. The most recent when I called Carl a prick lol. He didn’t deserve it, just me jumping to conclusions again, need to chillax. Then again it makes me a good Soldier so I’ll go therapy once I leave haha.
March 22nd, 2011
“Seems you missed this part ‘or the creator of Star Wars’”
Actually I didn’t kap, you said “or” not “and”.
Indeed.
lol.
March 22nd, 2011
Can we really take Lucas’s word on anything? He’s been doing his best to ruin Star Wars for us for the last 10 years….
/Devils advocate.
March 22nd, 2011
Crysis 2 has garnered some pretty positive reviews.
Maybe I have to rethink my stance on this and not wait until it’s $40.
I’m just bombarded with games I want to buy.
Tomb Raider Trilogy topping the list.
March 22nd, 2011
I bought the POP trilogy a couple weeks ago. I completed Sands of Time a few days after and it’s still one of my favourite games ever.
March 22nd, 2011
It just came out today in Canada.
March 22nd, 2011
“Can we really take Lucas’s word on anything? He’s been doing his best to ruin Star Wars for us for the last 10 years….
/Devils advocate. ”
Lol.
But seriously, I think the hate for GL needs to die down a bit. The man didn’t screw up Star Wars– It’s his vision of his fiction. He created it, and he has final word.
And FYI, regardless of the reputation the pre-trilogy garnered, all Star Wars films (Barring “Star Wars: The Clone Wars”, which is animated) received a “certified fresh” rating from RT (60% and above).
Obviously, he does something right. Let’s not forget Indiana Jones. GL’s is LEGEND.
March 22nd, 2011
“Crysis 2 has garnered some pretty positive reviews.”
Yup, better than Killzone 3, currently with an 87 metacritc on PS3. But I already said it would, as Killzone is average.
March 22nd, 2011
“But I already said it would, as Killzone is average.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPTsmswQVwg
March 22nd, 2011
LOL
Hey, I ain’t the only one that thinks that, and reviews (currently with an 84% metacritc average) seem to relent my position.
Again, before fanboy tempers flare, I already stated before that “average” on PS3 equals low to mid 80s.
March 22nd, 2011
“It’s his vision of his fiction. He created it, and he has final word.”
Yes. Artists often have a vision of what they think their work is or what they desire it to be considered as which often does not coincide with what it actually is in reality. And to be fair, GL never said it belonged in the fantasy genre either. I think Spielberg (and other famous sci-fi filmakers) has enough experience with the genre to judge Star Wars as science fiction.
March 22nd, 2011
Yes. Artists often have a vision of what they think their work is or what they desire it to be considered as which often does not coincide with what it actually is in reality
However, Star Wars isn’t as obscure as….say….”Starry Night” or “Portrait of Daniel-Henry Kahnweiler”. It’s a straight forward fantasy film. GL says it’s not Sci Fi.
End. The.
Say it backwards.
March 23rd, 2011
GL never placed it in the fantasy genre either.
What it is rated and reviewed as in the profession (i.e REALITY) is science fiction.
Next please.
March 23rd, 2011
So mythology isn’t fantasy?
LOL
I thought I said The End…..
March 23rd, 2011
So there are no modern day myths that primarily involve technology?
LOL
Science fiction can have mythological elements.
mythology: Myths collectively; the body of stories associated with a culture, institution or person.
Next please.
March 23rd, 2011
http://www.vistax64.com/vista-news/173287-30-biggest-technology-myths-exposed.html
March 23rd, 2011
http://www.myths-and-mythology.com/articles/urban-myths/index.php
March 23rd, 2011
“So there are no modern day myths that primarily involve technology?”
Damn you just failed hard.
Star Wars is based on an old samurai myth.
And FYI a stick is technology. I think you meant ‘advanced technology’.
The End. And keep it pimping.
March 23rd, 2011
You fail to comprehend yet again.
Mythological elements in a science fiction film do not necessitate that it falls within the fantasy genre.
I already referenced GL’s mentor Joseph Campbell, earlier in this same thread.
Though Star Wars combines mythology (i.e. “the hero and the quest” thematic elements found in several other science fiction films) and ‘advanced technology”, it remains a science fiction film because of that advanced technology predominant throughout the universe presented.
And FYI “sticks” were not the primary technology used in the film, apparently you need to be reminded and I must have overestimated your understanding of the material.
Next please.
March 23rd, 2011
“Mythological elements in a science fiction film do not necessitate that it falls within the fantasy genre.”
Wait…
“it remains a science fiction film because of that advanced technology predominant throughout the universe presented”
Seems contradictory to me.
“And FYI “sticks” were not the primary technology used in the film, apparently you need to be reminded and I must have overestimated your understanding of the material.”
You said it best– “You fail to comprehend yet again.”
No one said sticks were the technology used in the films. I said sticks are a form of technology, so what you should have said was advanced technology because in that sentence we weren’t talking about technology in the film. You specifically asked about “modern day myths involving technology” so let’s cut the bullshit condescending attitude– you fucked up, not me.
I must’ve overestimated your science fiction credentials. You are deluding yourself if you think technology in a story equals Sci Fi. What the hell is 50 First Dates then? Is it Sci Fi because they use cell phones and deals with anterograde amnesiacs? Sorry but you don’t know shit about science fiction as far as I’m concerned.
Sci Fi deals with the IMPACT technology has on the human condition. I see no impact technology has in Star Wars. Will the story change if it took place in a “traditional” fantasy setting? No. Would The Matrix change if technology was removed? Yes. That’s the difference.
And I honestly don’t get you. You seem hung up on the idea that because I haven’t provided a link with Lucas himself saying Star Wars is fantasy, that automatically means it isn’t. I already provided a link with Lucas stating it ISN’T Sci Fi, but you still insist it is. So that tells me your mind is made up, and no amout of evidence I provide will convince you otherwise. Seeing as that is the case, I will no longer even open this article again. Don’t bother addressing me here. This truly is
The End
March 23rd, 2011
“Seems contradictory to me.”
Mythological elements (i.e. “hero and the quest” theme) present in a film that has advanced technology predominant is “contradictory” to you? You must not have seen that much sci-fi at all.
“what you should have said was advanced technology”
Apologies, I assumed you were speaking of “advanced technology” beyond “sticks” when you first mentioned the term “technology” three days and many posts ago: “the story cannot be done without it’s science and technology.”
I guess I need to follow rules you yourself do not abide to, unless you were referencing “sticks” in Blade Runner?… to use your own words… “so let’s cut the bullshit condescending attitude– you fucked up, not me. Sorry but you don’t know shit about science fiction as far as I’m concerned.”
“I see no impact technology has in Star Wars.”
I’m sorry, but you must be purposely blind if you do not see how advanced technology has an impact in Star Wars. Practically the entire cast would not have survived without advanced technology. An entire planet would not have been obliterated without advanced technology. That is what I would call an impact.
“Will the story change if it took place in a ‘traditional’ fantasy setting?”
No, but the genre would.
“Would The Matrix change if technology was removed?”
Yes.
Do you see the different rules you are applying?
“if technology was removed” (and not replaced with a supernatural equivalent) from Star Wars the story would change.
Would the Matrix change if it took place in a fantasy setting?
No.
“Supernatural” or “fantasy” is anything the imagination can create. It has no rules. Therefore The Matrix (or Star Wars or any sci-fi film’s “basic” plot for that matter) could take place in a “fantasy” setting and the basic story would not change.
“I already provided a link with Lucas stating it ISN’T Sci Fi, but you still insist it is.”
And I already revealed that by definition (Webster’s, by your own demand) it is science fiction, that GL did not place it within the fantasy genre (which you insist on placing it within because of a school project you had to get a passing grade in), then revealed that another prolific science fiction filmmaker (also by your demand, and I can link several others if you so desire) also deem it to be science fiction, then I addressed each and every one of your points in regards to mythology and supernatural beings abilities, so that tells me your mind is made up, and no amount of evidence I provide will convince you otherwise.
I can see that you cannot debate my logic or reasoning, so you have, in fact, given up out of frustration and being in error.
Do not fret, it’s okay to be wrong. Ultimately, it means you can learn.
The End.
March 23rd, 2011
“Yup, better than Killzone 3, currently with an 87 metacritc on PS3. But I already said it would, as Killzone is average.”
Maybe you should wait until…hmmmm I don’t know….another 60 or so reviews come in prior to throwing your hands in the air and celebrating victory
March 23rd, 2011
“But seriously, I think the hate for GL needs to die down a bit. The man didn’t screw up Star Wars– It’s his vision of his fiction. He created it, and he has final word.”
Greedo shoots first. Nuff said
“Obviously, he does something right. Let’s not forget Indiana Jones. GL’s is LEGEND.”
He a great writer and producer but a sub par director.
Willow was great. He didn’t direct.
Empire Strikes back (widely known as the best SW movie), He didn’t direct.
All the Indiana Jones movies….He didn’t direct.
New Star Wars saga, He directed.
IMO, they should have made Anikan, Lukes age in Episode 1. It would have better explained his turn. They could have already showed him cocky because of his skills, and it would have also mimicked what Yoda said about Luke being too old to start training.
GL also took a big shit on the extended universe (all the books). Yes.. I know it’s his story to do what he wanted, but many of those writers put him in the dust with their stories, and he just dismisses it with the arrogant attitude, that it’s his to do what he wants with.
On top of that, it’s not like LucasArts weren’t aware of the EU. They included Mara jade in several games.
March 23rd, 2011
The examples used to prove Star Wars is fantasy could also be turned around on Star Trek, which many consider Sci Fi.
The Klingons are the Soviets, Romulans….Muslims
The Borg-Japanese. They travel around exploring like the earliest settlers etc.
March 23rd, 2011
The Klingons could also interchanged with Ogres, the Romulans with Elves, and the Borg with Golems. All races travel around with castles and unicorns instead of of space ships, so that must (at least according to kap) place Star Trek within the fantasy genre instead of the science fiction genre. And all that is missing is for Gene Rodenberry to have stated “Star Trek is not science fiction” to have made it so regardless of standard definitions.
March 23rd, 2011
The Romulans would have to be the dark elves (Drow), with the Vulcans being the elves
March 23rd, 2011
Kap’s knuckles are getting white