Microsoft Xbox TV – will users pay to watch a service they already pay for?

September 18, 2011

Microsoft Xbox TV – will users pay to watch a service they already pay for? Just this past week at Microsoft’s financial analyst meeting, CEO Steve Ballmer announced plans to roll out a new service called Xbox TV during this holiday season. The service will be available on the Xbox 360 and will allow users to watch select streaming TV shows.

As reported by CNN, Ballmer did not provide a list of the content providers which is the most crucial detail during the meeting. Google and Apple have ventured down this path but faced resistance from content providers such as Disney, CBS, and Comcast.

According to David Wertheimer, executive director of the Entertainment Technology Center at the University of Southern California, Microsoft may go the route of using a “TV Everywhere” model, where users can watch shows they already pay for.

This means that if a user pays for ESPN, then they will be able to stream that show through their Xbox 360. Incidentally, this is what Microsoft is doing with ESPN already.

However, many question this model as why would customers want to watch the same content they may get over Verizon FIOS or Comcast Xfinity through their Xbox 360. Ballmer’s big selling point for the service seems to revolve around Bing voice search through Kinect.

Interestingly enough, it was rumored that Microsoft was set to announce this TV service at E3 this year but was scrapped for some unknown reason.

While the idea is interesting, the challenge will be in securing the content to make the service compelling, pricing and availability. In most cases streamed TV shows come out several days after broadcasting on live television.

According to Gartner analyst, Van Baker stated, “Search is not discovery. Search as an answer to discovery implies you know what you’re looking for. Most people have no idea what they’re looking for."

Baker indicated that discovery is what makes Netflix such a huge success as its complex recommendation system allows users to discover programs they may have never known about.

The service seems to still have some bugs, as an on stage demo of Xbox TV via voice command failed to work properly.

Ballmer joked, "It’s a good thing that’s shipping for Christmas."

93 Responses to “Microsoft Xbox TV – will users pay to watch a service they already pay for?”

  1. MAK:

    1st! and right after it was posted! :D

    All i have to say is that this is just another scam. There more than enough better choices out there and M$ gahbage.

  2. ncaissie:

    Not only does MS fuck you in the ass they take fist full of Viagra to make long and hard.
    Hope you enjoy it cad, I know you do. LOL :D

  3. oldschool1987:

    What MS need to do is stop worrying about features for the non gamers and casual gamers and focus on more decent exclusives. I mean 2 great exclusives in 1 whole year doesn’t cut it(Reach and Gears).

  4. CarlB:

    This made me chuckle last night…
    “Ballmer said Microsoft is working with ‘dozens or hundreds of additional video-content suppliers,’ which makes us wonder if someone should send out a company memo describing the substantial difference between those two figures.”

  5. CON:


    I’m not sure what you’re getting at? What are you claiming xbox users will have to pay extra for?

  6. FahKinSuPah:

    I have cable TV and netflix. What the fuck would I need this shit for?

    I have some advice for Microsoft.

    Stop giving people what they DON’T want, and start giving us what we DO want.

  7. phranctoast:

    Is MS charging in addition to XBL Gold for this or will this simply be available to everyone with a Gold account already?

  8. Roca.:

    I heard there will be a XBL “Dimond” tier for TV stuff and that will cost much more ($100/yr?)

    Either way, all I’ve heard is that the XBL TV will just make your Xbox act as a separate cable box but with a fancy new UI and some new windowns feature. you still need to be a cable subscriber. meh

  9. dans303:


    Whether you get this as part of XBL Gold or you have to pay extra is irrelevant. You’re still paying for something you already have.

  10. phranctoast:

    If this replaced cable and you only had to pay for online this would be cool. If that’s not the case….what’s the point. bing searches with Kinect.. Are they joking?

  11. CON:

    How are you paying for it if you already have XBL Gold? It would simply be an additional perk like watching ESPN via XBL.

    Seems most people are guessing here. Nice flame bait post MIKE :)

  12. phranctoast:

    Technically it should be part of XBL Silver as you’re not actually getting anything you otherwise wouldn’t be paying for already.

    Just like Netflix, ESPN, online gaming, etc Microsoft has you chumps paying for access to services you’re already paying for.

  13. Roca.:

    You are already paying for ESPN via your cable provider. For example, my cable provider also offers ESPN3 and I can get access it without XBL on my PC, TV and laptops…in Fact I’ve been using the services for years, way before it even was available on XBL.

    ESPN falls down into the category of things that are free or you’re already paying for that MS is charging you to access like – Netflix, Hulu, ESPN, Twitter, Facebook, Last.FM, etc

  14. CON:

    MS ain’t charging for those things buddy, it’s only for online gaming. They continually add additional content each year so what’s the problem with that?

  15. twilight:

    Um…more digital content. No complaints as long as it is part of the gold subscription cost.

  16. phranctoast:

    You can access Netflix, ESPN without a Gold account?

  17. Roca.:

    They’re also charging to let you fully access all the content on the games you already paid full price for. Most games now days have online capabilities and they are part of the game you are paying $60 for, most popular games are mainly played online and Microsoft charges you to let you access the other half of the game, which again, you paid full price for them.

  18. Godless:

    “Um…more digital content. No complaints as long as it is part of the gold subscription cost.”

    thought your gold membership had expired?

    They should add these things to the silver, to keep the xbox in line with what the PS3 has to offer for free.

    MS need to take heed of Sonys free PSN services, and match them. the online game side of things, I still think MS is better online than the PS3, certainly from my experience anyway, and if I don’t start getting better online with the PS3 I will renew my Live account just for online gaming, I don’t really give a monkeys about all the other crap.

  19. CON:


    No Gold only. These are a pretty much perks for Gold members

  20. twilight:

    My subscription did expire but I changed my mind. I just recently re-newed my live subscription.

  21. phranctoast:

    Sucks for someone who doesn’t play MP and needs to still buy Gold in order to use Netflix.

    Considering Netflix services is at no additional cost to MS since Netflix runs their own servers, it’s baffling why MS decides to make this only for Gold members….

    It makes you wonder how many people fall into that scenario, or do they just use the PS3 and the Wii.

  22. CON:


    Well if you don’t play online then I wouldn’t recommend using xbox for netflix

  23. Roca.:

    There must be a reason why PS3 and Wii have the top 2 higher percentage of Netflix streaming.

    “These are a pretty much perks for Gold members”

    so what are they on PSN since we get them hassle free (without any subscription attached to it)? It are more of a scam//ripoff on XBL since everyone else gets them for free.

  24. Roca.:

    it = they*

  25. CarlB:

    DCUO goes free to play next month:

  26. CON:


    They are what they are…perks. XBL offer the best online service but at a cost. The only thing that would make me question the value of XBL would be if psn got party chat for free

  27. FahKinSuPah:


    cool. Now maybe i can finally get a chance to check out DCUO.

  28. ncaissie:

    LMFAO Perks of gold? So if you have gold you get free espn and netflix? Sure

  29. FahKinSuPah:

    WOOOOO!!! Netflix is going to start handling video games!

  30. Roca.:

    if perks = scams then yes, you’re right

    party chat doesn’t make online “gamplay” better, dedicated servers does and PSN has been supporting it since day 1. PSN does is free and dedicated servers cost money to keep them running, needs space for the servers, maintenance cost, etc and PSN is still free. what does Microsoft gives…NOTHING.

    You pay full price ($60) for COD, Gears, or Battlefield but you are not allow to access or play half of the game because Microsft wants your money to let you have full access to the product you already paid for.

  31. phranctoast:

    Well it’s my opinion that MS should take any of these services that don’t cost them a dime (Netflix, Hulu, ESPN, twitter, LastFM) since they’re not running on MS’s servers and make that all available on Silver. Silver subscribers are already treated like second class citizens where they need to wait a week to DL and demo or content available on Gold.

  32. ncaissie:

    I pay $9 a month for netflix I watch it on the iPods, iPhones, iPad, tv, ps3s, pc and Wii. I don’t have to pay a subscription on any of those devices. So how in fuck is it a xbl gold “Perk”?

    That is a stupid thing to say. Just like playing the larger part of some games(online) that you already paid $70 for is a “Perk” of gold? Lmao you xbots are pretty gullible.

  33. phranctoast:

    I wonder what percentage of PSN users have PSN plus….I got to assume they increased their membership a decent amount this month with the 50% off of RE4HD deal.

  34. ncaissie:

    “DCUO goes free to play next month:”
    Thanks Carl. I stopped paying because I didn’t have time and the bosses are hard. Now it’s free I will give it another try.

  35. phranctoast:

    If Sony were MS they’d only make DCUO free to play to Plus members as a “perk”.

  36. Roca.:

    “and the bosses are hard”

    LMAO – MMOs bosses are built so that you need a group to beat them.

    half of my friends are PSN+ members…and the other half are not dedicated gamers, they don’t even sign on that often.

  37. dans303:


    Don’t blame me for not signing on . . . ;)

  38. CON:

    “party chat doesn’t make online “gamplay” better”

    It really does.

  39. ncaissie:

    “LMAO – MMOs bosses are built so that you need a group to beat them.”
    No wonder. I don’t know how to get others in. We will have to try some day.

  40. phranctoast:

    So does dedicated servers which you guys will learn when you see the difference online with Gears 3 vs Gears 2.

  41. Roca.:

    dedicated server does make online gameplay. You will enjoy it on Gears 3 (finally) and I heard MW3 will also support dedicated servers. Finally the big boys are going to do what Sony has been doing since day one.

  42. CON:

    I’m kinda on the fence with p2p and dedicated servers. I find that with p2p you can just start a game with your friend without the hassle of waiting on the servers. The only drawback is if they have a poor connection as the host will have a major advantage.

  43. phranctoast:

    P2P works with low player counts. Dedicated servers are more balanced for all players.

  44. CON:

    I guess the ideal situation would be to have the choice of either.

  45. Roca.:

    I just read that the technology used for Kinect was patented by Sony years ago…

  46. phranctoast:

    That’s a lot of royalty fees coming to Sony’s direction.

  47. jojo29:

    PSN “perks”
    Online ganeplay
    Web Browsing
    Pretty much any service you can access on your pc thats paid or fee (pandora) that doesnt crash the web browser
    Video Chat room
    Txt Chat room

    DLC discounts
    4(or more) free pre selected games per month
    Cloud Saving
    Automatic Updating
    Qore monthly free episode
    Early demo access
    Beta to games auto access

    LIVE Silver
    Hmm what else is on silver?

    LIVE Gold
    Access to Netflix, ESPN (still need to subscribe to these)
    Online gaming (with p2p servers lmao)
    Party chat
    Video chat
    Early demo access

    Wow….looking at this list of featurea (please correct if im wrong)
    It seems to me, psn even outdoes live gold….

    This is why only 1/5 or 10% of the 360 install base are stupid enough to subscribe to this “service”..its obviously a blatant ripoff and the only reasons for justifying the cost is “party chat”….wow, you really are dumbfucks…ALL 10% of you are….

  48. Godless:


    So far I would say dedicated servers has not made online gaming on PS3 any better for me.

    So far I have tried to play the following games online with really shit results

    Dead nation
    Motorstorm Apocalypse
    split second
    Uncharted 2
    Earth defence force
    burnout paradice

    none of these games played well online, for various reasons, but all bad

    Need for speed hot pursuit, worked like a dream, fast game find, and no lag in game. just like playing on live in fact.
    also the demo of BF 1943 worked just like on live so I have high hopes for BF3

    Games yet to try online
    Killzone 3
    GT 5
    Crysis 2,

    Maybe if the above games work well. my opinions on PSN will be changed, but for now I see it as a piss poor second to live where I don’t remember ever having problems, with any game.
    online play is one of the areas where the 360 has always really impressed me by performing way better than I would normally hope for, PSN on the other hand almost always under performs,

    Give me P2P any day, if it performs like LIVE, so what if you can’t have 256 players or whatever, at least it works bang on with 12.

    I’ll be a happy bunny when PSN performs as well as live did.

  49. Roca.:

    of the games you listed, so far I haven’t had any issues with the following games:

    -Dead Nation – not a single issue

    -Burnout (you are playing a 4-year old game, keep that in mind)

    -Motorstorm Apocalypse – played mostly online and reach Rank 40 without any issues.

    -Uncharted 2 – never had any issues, In fact, I was playing it with some friends a few days ago and it still has flawless online gameplay. If you don’t believe check my trophies for U2, I got a trophy for lasting 10 rounds in survival mode few days ago.

  50. jojo29:

    I really don’t understand why you have such problems with online gameplay via the ps3, I’m not saying your troubles are not true, just I don’t understand why it so because, aside from when I had a shitty connection (ask birdman or roca) or even despite having a shitty connection, I was still able to find and play online….and I play the following games online:

    Bad Company 2
    MvC 3
    SSF 4
    MvC 2
    Mortal Kombat
    Killzone 3

  51. Roca.:

    “Give me P2P any day, if it performs like LIVE, so what if you can’t have 256 players or whatever, at least it works bang on with 12″

    Funny you say that because Gears 1 & 2 (8/16 players) are laggy as fuck compared to MAG (256 players).

    Many of us play online on PSN everyday with no issues but Xbots like Godless always have to make shit up to justify XBL Gold price tag.

  52. Roca.:

    DCUO is going free, awesome! now I just need to buy the game.

  53. Godless:


    Why the fuck would I make stuff up???

    All I’m telling you is what I have experienced.

    My connection speed is pretty good since hard-wiring the console, I can download stuff at 1.5 almost 2 megs per second. which is about the same as the xbox can do.

    Look. If any of you are on-line later I’ll be more than happy to try playing any of the games with you, to see if they perform well.

    Roca, I’m in my 40s, I stopped making shit up a long time ago. .

  54. Godless:

    DCUO, Free?, what about all those that have paid in advance to play?

    Is this game any good?

  55. phranctoast:


    Sounds like you’re hitting some P2P servers to me with some of those games.

    Uncharted 2 uses both depending on player count.

    BF1943 and Need for Speed are both use dedicated servers from EA.

  56. phranctoast:

    “Is this game any good?”

    Talk to ncaissie. He’s the only one here I know thats played it.

  57. Roca.:

    “Roca, I’m in my 40s, I stopped making shit up a long time ago. .”

    You just made that up a minute ago…I guess when you’re in your 40s a minute seems like a “long time ago” ;)

  58. Roca.:

    Sony: “DC Universe Online will soon be free to download from the PlayStation Store, and free-to-play with no monthly fees required”

    oh crap, I don’t even have to buy the game…talk about nice “perk” lol

  59. FahKinSuPah:


    “Funny you say that because Gears 1 & 2 (8/16 players) are laggy as fuck compared to MAG (256 players).”

    I just wanna ask you this..

    How the fuck would you know?

    You don’t have Gold and you don’t play Xbox like that so you obviously wouldn’t know.

    Considering the fact that I was playing Gears 2 online yesterday and today, and I had no problems (aside from hosts who were jerks) at all I would say the servers are running pretty damn well

  60. jojo29:

    I believe roca was bringing up early gears 2 online gameplay, which,i,can attest was, was laggy as fawk….my brother owns a 360 with kinect, he loves buying new,games for their free month coupon they usually have to play online…prety sad we both say lol

    But as with any good developer I believe they have fixed the lag issue on theor side of things, but since its p2p, you will have to do deal with such jerks

    And free DCUonline
    Ihope you guys,get, ive had it on pc, its a great game but needed a consistANT group of players playing for end game…my mmo buddies ( 2 friends, my bro, cousin 5-6 dedicated peeps is pretty much all you need for most mmo end game, and trust me, us 5 habe been able to hold back at least 10 -12 horde in ab/av matches) decided to jump on rift instead….we are all awaiting sw tor!!! But if yall get dc im game to play,with yall!!!!! Ncassie here I,come!!!

  61. ncaissie:

    “DCUO is going free, awesome! now I just need to buy the game”
    I read the article Carl posted. You get to dl it free also. The free people will have some limitations but not much. Then there is another level and finally the $15 a month level.

    Yes the game is awesome but I couldn’t devote the time and no one else on my PSN had the game.

  62. Roca.:

    My brother is a Gold member and he played Gears 1 online for about of month or two when we got the 360..the Lag was noticeable. idk why are you even trying to argue this since it’s been a known issue for some time now.

    Google is full of stories about Gears having online issues and Lag – mostly due to the fact that it uses p2p system and host with slow speed, low ping, or host for the other side of the world can make the match laggy. Here is a Xbox site talking about it

  63. phranctoast:

    Cliffy B even acknowledges it.

  64. ncaissie:

    I have DCUO on the PS3. I had the LE one sins day one.

  65. ncaissie:

    Speaking of LE I can’t wait for my U3 LE. I pre ordered it. :)

  66. twilight:

    I pre-ordered the Uncharted 3 limited edition as well. Gears Of War 3 will be awesome but Uncharted 3 is going to be super awesome. Uncharted 3′s review scores are going to blow Gears Of War 3′s review scores away.

  67. CarlB:

    “what about all those that have paid in advance to play?”

    “Any player who has spent at least $5 (including former paid subscribers and new players who have purchased $5 of in-game items) will qualify for the Premium access level. Premium level players will have more benefits available to them than the Free level player, including additional character slots, additional inventory slots, and higher cash limits. Downloadable adventure packs, additional character slots, and more can be purchased in-game.”

  68. Ivan_PSP:

    This will fail before it launches.

    Me too. UNCHARTED 3: Drake’s Deception can’t be rival I agree it might get a perfect metacritic 100 score overall. Gears of War 3 was like the last game and a new story nothing else. And UNCHARTED is gonna wipe the floor with the entire Gears of War series for sure.

  69. oldschool1987:

    Come on, lets be honest people. Uncharted 3 will probably not score as highly as the 2nd, I cam’t see it happening. I hope it does though but it’s unlikely. It won’t be much different to the 2nd one, I don’t think(which is exactly what I want), so reviewers will knock points off for saying it doesn’t reinvent the wheel.

    They have been doing it with Gears 3, they all claim Gears 3 is the best of the 3 but still knock points off for it not being a departure. They knocked points off LBP2 even though every single reviewer claimed it superior to the first.

    No matter what, Uncharted 3 will be an amazing game full off the best set pieces seen in any video game as usual. It will get critical acclaim but I can’t see it being in the same league as the 2nd.

  70. Ivan_PSP:

    But this is Naughty Dog expect the unexpected. UNCHARTED 3: Drake’s Deception has a part where you ride a horse now you can swim plus it has a lot of new customization for online. The story looks more awesome. I bet it will be granted PERFECTION.

    Gears of War 3 or Xbox bitter owners.
    Cheer up, the worst is yet to come.

  71. MAK:

    ““Funny you say that because Gears 1 & 2 (8/16 players) are laggy as fuck compared to MAG (256 players).”I just wanna ask you this..How the fuck would you know?You don’t have Gold and you don’t play Xbox like that so you obviously wouldn’t know.Considering the fact that I was playing Gears 2 online yesterday and today, and I had no problems (aside from hosts who were jerks) at all I would say the servers are running pretty damn well”

    Is that a joke. Everyone on this god damn website knows Gears 1 & 2 are extremely laggy.
    Its a common fact.

    Not to mention, everytime i go over my xbot friends house, he ALWAYS plays gears online.
    Every 5 minutes he screams “LAG” at the TV. Jokes on him for paying for XBL GOLD witg its so called better online guarantee.

  72. oldschool1987:

    I fucking love MAG! I’ve played a ton of 256 player matches and not one single time have i experienced any slight lag. It runs perfectly.

  73. Ivan_PSP:

    Xbox Live is a lag fest

    MAG RuLeZ Awesome Game

  74. phranctoast:

    I think Uncharted 3 will be a lot better than Uncharted 2. I also don’t think it will be as critically recognized as the second either. Uncharted 1 to 2 was a very big jump. 2 to 3 will be less of a jump.

  75. ncaissie:

    “Xbox Live is a fag fest”


  76. Roca.:

    To me, U2 to U3 seems like a bigger jump than U1 to U2….the combat system alone is very different than the limited system used in the previous 2 games.

    If the can outdo the train level with a more epic scene and keep the story as good as it’s always been I expect Uncharted 3 to be in at least in the mid 90s (94+).

  77. Godless:

    I love the PS3 owners that don’t play on live claiming it’s laggy. . LMAO

    The only time I really played gears 2 was online hoard mode with my buddies. I can say with confidence it has no lag. the only game I’ve ever had lag on live with is Battlfield BC 2 and BF 1943, they were bad for rubber banding and dropping you for a while, but it was for a short time.
    the one thing I did notice more and more, was pricks using lag switches to cheat in games, but MS said they would monitor connections of those reported, and would perm ban them for cheating if it looked like they were indeed using a lag switch.

    online gaming is the one area where the 360 still thrashes the PS3 for me, well did, . . as I no longer have gold.

  78. Roca.:

    no gold = PS3 still trashes the 360 for you or anyone who is not bending down for MS’s $60 XBL Gold ripoff.

  79. phranctoast:

    Cliffy B interview:
    “Click the image above to check out all Gears of War 3 screens.

    1UP: With dedicated servers — I’m not extremely technical — but I hear that you have better capability to do more with the game and maps than if it’s hosted locally; is that right?

    CB: No, not necessarily map-wise. It’s more about online performance because when you have a client-server architecture with Gears, you have somebody hosting and that host has somewhat of an inherent advantage over everybody else, which becomes this big [negative] thing. Like, in Gears or in Counter-Strike, if somebody kicked your ass, you claimed they were wall hacking even though they weren’t. And now if you win in Gears it’s, “You have host advantage!” But by removing [client servers] you suddenly have a level playing field for everybody. We have a server farm that Microsoft is helping us out with, so people will have a level playing field. There will still be instances where somebody who has great bandwidth will be allowed to host for other players. But it’s a situation now that we can detect how good their upstream or downstream is; we detect what the pings are and we decide if it’s an appropriate scenario. Otherwise, just go dedicated.”

    “1UP: I also have some community questions that I want to get to. First one is from OboroShogun. He says he had problems with lag in Gears 2 and wants to know how it’ll be fixed. Of course, this was asked before the announcements.

    CB: Well I think dedicated servers will be a huge help. You can’t always guarantee a perfect game in the wild though. I’ve had lag in [Halo] Reach, I’ve had lag in Call of Duty. Lag is a reality of the Internet when you have millions of people connecting. That said, as a developer, it’s your job to do whatever you can to bulletproof a new game as much as possible and dedicated servers, again, will help that. “

  80. twilight:

    First of all, no offense to the normal people who play Xbox360. However, from my online experience, I have to say there are definetely more perverts on Xbox live then on Psn.

  81. Roca.:

    So the creator of Gears admitted there’s lag…I don’t even know why the Xbots even bother.

  82. ncaissie:

    Because their precious system can do no wrong Roca.

  83. twilight:

    I expect nothing but generally high scores for Uncharted 3 except from the usual stupid pro-xbox sites who will do anything to find fault with this game. Like you stated, this game is going to be a masterpiece.

  84. Ivan_PSP:

    I agree I also think UNCHARTED 3: Drake’s Deception will be a better game but I also think that UNCHARTED 2: Among Thieves will still be more popular in the media maybe. But this game is going to sell more for sure.

    LMFAO I agree.

    We still haven’t seen the whole game Naughty Dog might just surprise you they have now planes and horses and you drown or save your self LoL. Also the online has a major change I played the beta a bit and it felt really different I don’t how bad or good this part will be. But UNCHARTED 3: Drake’s Deception will be Game of the Year I guaranteed it.

    We got pervs but they all in PlayStation Home LoL. Oh and I love PlayStation Home it feels like a new PlayStation World really awesome.

    And I also expect awesome high scores no 8 fuck that. Even the Xbots will love this game.

  85. CarlB:

    “UNCHARTED 3: Drake’s Deception will be Game of the Year I guaranteed it.”

    Skyrim’s release date is decreasing it’s chances.

  86. Roca.:

    or the other way around

    Unchrated 3′s release date is decreasing Skyrim’s chances ;)

    I wouldn’t argue at all if Batman:AC gets GOTY.

  87. twilight:

    I just don’t want Call Of Duty to win this award.

  88. ncaissie:

    Skyrims? I don’t think that will happen. Maybe batman though.
    We will have to wait and see. But don’t they exclude Nov and Dec games?

  89. Roca.:

    “I just don’t want Call Of Duty to win this award.”

    and it won’t…if anything, BF3 should score some awards.

  90. Ivan_PSP:

    UNCHARTED 3: Drake’s Deception was made to be Game of the Year and to the best game in every category that applies. We all know that Battlefield 3 looks good and might have a great story but is far from Game of the Year. And Call of Duty has no chance in hell neither does Skyrim that crap.

    Look at UNCHARTED 2: Among Thieves date.

  91. CarlB:


    What I am saying is that Skyrim releasing later on the 11th of November is decreasing it’s own chances for GotY. It wasn’t a dig on UC3.

  92. Roca.:

    my bad Carlb.

    Novemeber is not bad..GOTY awards take place sometime in late December/early January. U3 releases 10 days before Skyrim

  93. phranctoast:

    If they follow the pattern of last year, the awards should be on Dec 10th. That should give Skyrim plenty of time.

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