Sony reveals special $300 bundle for the PS Vita 3G/Wi-Fi model

January 27, 2012

Sony reveal special $300 bundle for the PS Vita 3G/Wi-Fi modelWith the launch of the PlayStation Vita around the corner in Europe and America, Sony has revealed some interesting news about a special launch day bundle for the 3G/Wi-Fi model.

According to the PlayStation Blog, those who have pre ordered the PS Vita First Edition bundle for the 3G/Wi-Fi model will received a limited edition case, 4GB PS Vita memory card, Little Deviants, AT&T DataConnect Pass good for a 250MB session, and a PSN game.

For those willing to stand in line out in the cold on February 22nd during the launch of the PS Vita, will be rewarded with another type of bundle as well. For those early birds, a purchase of a PS Vita 3G/Wifi model will come with a 8GB PS Vita Memory card, AT&T DataConnect Pass, and a PSN game all for $299, which is the price of the unit by itself normally.

PSVita_bundle

If you haven’t pre-ordered a unit yet this sounds like the deal to get as you get a memory card and everything you need to start playing right away.

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109 Responses to “Sony reveals special $300 bundle for the PS Vita 3G/Wi-Fi model”

  1. CarlB:

    $10 just to play one online game to plat UC3?
    It’s not as if UC doesn’t sell millions regardless, but no, they had to get greedy. If you’re going to do this, do it separate from the plat Sony. It’s bad waiting years to incorporate trophies, but then to exploit them in this manner is very disappointing.

  2. CarlB:

    The least they could do is let current PSN Plus subscribers get these passes free.

  3. CarlB:

    “‘We would rather have you buy a new game than a used game because buying a used game is only a cost to us,’ he argued. ‘We don’t get a single dime from a used game, but we still need to create server space and everything for you.’”

    Wait a sec. Only one person can play a copy of a game. They get the money from the first sale of a game regardless. Some people keep their game, some people sell it, some people give it away or donate it to their local library.

    If the person who originally bought it decides to keep it or pass it on, whether they give it/loan it out to a friend or relative or sell it to someone else the end result is the same: one person playing one copy (that has already been sold) at a time. If five million copies of a game get sold (no matter how many times some copies get resold/given away/lent) that’s what the server space should be built for, and that has nothing to do with used copies being sold again.

    UC3 sold 3.8 million it’s first day alone, and would have sold just as well with/without the online pass. That’s $228 million in revenue in the first day. Even if they only made a tenth of that after costs it’s still $22.8 million. If as many people payed for online, that’s another 38 million dollars. How much money do they really need for “server space”?

  4. phranctoast:

    A games server costs is figured with the known fact that interest in a game will waver over time. If a game sells 3.8m they know for a fact that all those people still won’t be playing in 6 months time. it’s the natural life of a game. This fact is also shown by the used market. If people didn’t get tired of their games there would be no used market correct?
    H

  5. phranctoast:

    I’ve seen the used car analogy used over and over so I’ll do that One better.

    Should the second and third owner of a car still be entitled to an extra 100k mile warranty from the manufacturer even though they paid that said manufacturer nothing?

  6. phranctoast:

    The least they could do is let current PSN Plussubscribers getthese passes free.”

    At the very least, a one day online pass for renters so they can see if they like it enough to drop the $10.

  7. Roca.:

    @Carl

    Online pass is included in the game…I didn’t pay a dime and I’m still playing online.

    why are you whining so much…specially when you don’t care about online play (and Sony is not the first company to do this)

  8. FahKinSuPah:

    Seems like the online pass thing is here to stay. Most likely that is exactly what MS will be doing with their next console and every MP game that comes out.

  9. phranctoast:

    Or how they’re MO has been with XBL..

  10. CarlB:

    “A games server costs is figured…”

    Online multiplayer for PS3 was supposed to be free. It’s one of the major points every other PS3 fan has harped on about as making it better than 360 for years.
    No more.

    “Should the second and third owner of a car still be entitled to an extra 100k mile warranty from the manufacturer even though they paid that said manufacturer nothing?”

    They get the warranty from a certified used car dealer, not the manufacturer. The longer a used car is running, the higher the reputation for that manufacturer. The buyer may never have gotten into the manufacturer’s car if it had never been offered as used. If the buyer is impressed enough with a used car from the manufacturer, there is a higher probability they may buy a new car from the manufacturer in the future. There is a symbiotic relationship between the used car dealer and the manufacturer. Cut the dealer out of the picture and there would be more crime.

    “why are you whining so much…”

    It is a loss of value for the PS3.
    I remember you bragging all the time about how PS3 had free online multiplayer and how that made it so much better than 360.

    Consider now paying $10 per game just to plat, say, one per month at a cost of $120/year instead of $36/yr (now on Amazon) for an entire years worth of online games for XBLG. In this regard, 360 now has the advantage.

    To be honest, I wouldn’t be nearly as affected if they had not decided to exploit platinums for it.

    You said the same thing when I was upset over them taking out backwards compatibility in all future models. Color me crazy, I just don’t like it as a gamer when I lose functionality in my console. If they had never bothered with making the effort in the first place it wouldn’t be an issue.

  11. phranctoast:

    ” To be honest, I wouldn’t be nearly as affected if they had not decided to exploit platinums for it.”

    Or if instead of renting if you bought the game new, you would have all those features. You are saving yourself $59 that way.

    As for the car analogy the certified used car salesman can be equated to gamestop and they do include

  12. phranctoast:

    Online pass anyway.

    The impression one gets could be used in all forms of justification such as stealing a Cd online is ok because you may at one point see the band live.

  13. Roca.:

    Platinums are not affected and it doesnt cost a dime to play online if you get the game new.

    XBL Gold is a MUST for achivements and for NEW games (and for games that required online passes)

  14. FahKinSuPah:

    @Roca

    Sounds kinda like your in denial right now.

  15. Roca.:

    How am I in denial?

    I have both U3 and R3 and it didn’t cost me a dime to play online.

  16. CarlB:

    “Or if instead of renting if you bought the game new…”

    No, really, if they didn’t mess with the trophies of the original game (the plat), if they had say, made them trophies for a stand alone DLC pack instead, or not have those trophies count towards the plat, I wouldn’t be bothered in the slightest.

    I’ve bought new and rented games for the PS3 for the past few years this generation, and have never before been locked out of platting a title because of some arbitrary trophy you have to pay $10 for in order to get.

    “stealing a Cd online is ok because you may at one point see the band live”

    There is a difference between stealing and buying used and or renting. One supports the buyers of the original in the first place so he/she/they may buy more in the future. The used games market does support the games industry, and the rental market especially so. There is no need for theft when all you have to do is go to your local library or pay a nominal fee that most people can afford on a regualar basis. There is no need for an industry to extract more profit when it is already the most profitable and growing exponentially without profiteering.

    Look at it this way. How healthy has the game industry been this generation before the advent of online pass? The answer is extremely healthy. So much so that it has already surpassed both the music and movie industries in total profit, which have been around decades longer, in a fraction of the time. If an industry is already profiting more than enough, if in fact it is actually the most profitable of all, why would those who already profit the most want to squeeze even more profit out of it? The answer is greed.

    “Platinums are not affected”

    Yes, they are. For millions of gamers who rent and buy used. The great majority of these also buy a few games new regularly because of the money they saved from renting and buying used games. In other words, these gamers have a greater capability to support the gaming industry (buy new) because of the allowances (renting and used games) that exist within it. If they work to eliminate those allowances, there will be less capability to support new games.

    “XBL Gold is a MUST for achivements and for NEW games”

    No. You do not have to have XBLG in order to get achievements. You do have to have it for online achievements. This I have already outlined above. Instead of paying $10 per game for online play, you pay $35/yr, which could be a better alternative for those that play quite a lot of games online per year already (or like to 100% games w/achievements that have online modes). $35. Instead of getting to play only the equivalent of 3.5 games (whatever that half represents) with PSN Pass, for $35, you can play many more online for the same flat fee yearly.

    XBLG’s price hike alongside PSN Plus (and online play being free already) was one of the main reasons I switched from 360 to PS3 at the beginning of last year. Even though I’m not a major online player, I do like achievements/trophies and maxing them for games I play. I didn’t have to pay extra to plat/100% a game that had some online trophies, so I switched to PS3. Now I do. And not just a little, but $10 per game. All I want is one multiplayer game online in order to get the plat, but they want to charge me $10 for that privilege now, whereas before there was no charge.

    And if you don’t think GameFly is a major source of revenue for publishers, you’re mistaken. They buy and sell hundreds of millions of dollars worth of new games. In other words, it has brought in millions of gamers who otherwise may not have been able to afford the price of new games. GameFly not only sells new games, it continuously buys new copies of games that have been worn through renting to those gamers. It’s a win for developers, publishers, GameFly, and gamers because it supports every level.

    “it didn’t cost me a dime to play online”

    It cost you $60 per game on average, if you bought them brand new with no discounts. Say you spend 20 hours to play through each, that’s $3 per hour of gaming you are paying.

    20% ($12) goes to the console maker per game.
    15% ($9) can go to marketing (doesn’t always happen).
    30% ($18) goes to the publisher.
    15% ($9) goes to the developer.
    20% ($12) goes to the retailer.

    http://unrealitymag.com/index.php/2011/04/29/how-your-60-video-game-is-chopped-up/

    Let’s consider UC3 sold ~4 million copies.
    @$60 per, that’s $240 million in revenue.

    That is:

    $48 million to the console maker.
    $36 million to marketing (if they spent that much).
    $72 million to the publisher.
    $36 million to the developer.
    $48 million to the retailer.

    Do you actually think it takes anywhere near a small fraction of one of those amounts to maintain servers for this one game today?

    Now consider $10 per used/rented copy to play online.
    If even half of gamers bought/rented these copies and decided to pay to play online, that would be an additional $20,000,000.00 in revenue.

    Classic.

  17. Roca.:

    I didn’t read your whole comment because honestly, I don’t care how much money they make…as long as they game developers keep making great game they should earn all the money they can get.

    Carl – “You do have to have it for online achievements”

    Exactly

    You were trying to argue that online play on PSN is not free ..and it is…online is nothing new…it’s been almost 2 years and you are complaining now just because Sony started doing it.

    on XBL Gold you still pay to play online (even with a new copy of the game) and if you buy a used copy you have to pay TWICE to play online and earn achievements

  18. CarlB:

    Oh. I forgot to reiterate. Those numbers above represent profits from the first day of sales alone.

  19. jojo29:

    Im not sure where you guys are getting that Sony PSN is NOT free to play online?

    I read the article and i don’t any reference to having to pay to play online?? Clue me in on this change!?

  20. CarlB:

    “I don’t care how much money they make… they should earn all the money they can get.”

    Sorry, I care because I value my money and don’t see the need to contribute it to profiteering.

    I see you quoted me, but forgot to include the rest of the quote which puts it in context. In other words you missed my point entirely. 360 now provides more value in this online aspect because you do not have to spend as much.

    “because Sony started doing it”

    Yes. Because they started, whereas before it was an advantage to go with PS3. It was partly because of the philosophy of them not charging for it that I switched to PS3 from 360 in the first place. Now they are charging and gamers have even less reason to go with PS3 than they did before.

    Gears 3 on 360 represents the closest recent equivalent of UC3 on PS3. It did not require an online pass for the retail copy online game achievements, new or used.

  21. Roca.:

    On the 360 it cost you $60 and $10 for each game that requires online pass… Even if the online pass is for single player content.

    I don’t see that changing.

    Online pass has always been the same on PS3 BF3 has it on both, so does medal of Honor, batman and hundreds of other titles. The difference is that on 360 you still have to pay $60 por no matter what

  22. CarlB:

    @jojo,

    If you rent or buy used games, you can no longer play online for free in all PS3 exclusive (and 99% of multiplat) games, as we have been able to enjoy in the past on PS3. Sony has now instituted the “PSN Pass” program, which essentially charges you $10 for online play, no matter whether you desire to play for 1 session (in order to get a plat) or several. The first game to institute PSN Pass was Resistance 3, followed by UC3, and now Twisted Metal, as well as probably all future PS3 exclusives that have online multiplayer.

    In other words, the $240 million in revenue they created for UC3 on it’s first day of sales wasn’t enough to be able to maintain server space online. They have to extort another $20,000,000 or so for that.

  23. CarlB:

    Halo, Forza, Gears, Fable didn’t have anything like this where you have to pay extra (beyond XBLG) to “100%” the games included achievements, with a new or used copy. @$10 per exclusive title for online play for every rental/used copy, it is more expensive to pay per game than pay one flat yearly $35 fee for those gamers who play a lot, but mostly do it by renting/buying used with one or two new game purchases per year. These gamers aren’t pirates, they don’t steal, and they already support the industry. Now they have more for the same thing they enjoyed before while the fatcats make more.

    “hundreds of other titles”

    Medal of Honor is the only one I’ve come across before that requires you to pay extra in order to plat the game. I know there are others, but I certainly haven’t come across anywhere near “hundreds” on PS3, 360, or Wii.

    But this is how they do it, just like boiling a frog, they turn up the heat slowly, not all at once, so it doesn’t jump out. One step at a time. First it starts with the online component of one exclusive game, then more, then all.

    I can remember how passionately you argued not having to pay a dime for multiplayer online was such a great deal you got with PS3 over 360. So much for that. I suppose you’re now going to argue just as passionately that it’s only in rentals/used copies, but as I said before, this is only the beginning, and this is how they do it, one step at a time.

    What a shame, as I always considered Sony and PS3 the last bastion of free online access, whether you had a new or used game. It was one of the reasons I admired and supported them over MS and 360, and now that reason is slowly disappearing.

  24. ncaissie:

    Phranc. If I buy a car today with 100,000km w then drive it for 50,000km and I sell the car the w goes with the car.
    Carlb is 100% correct. These fuckeres are pathetic scum and don’t want anyone to make money but them.
    It’s bullshit.

  25. me_:

    I feel a little sorry for you CarlB. You had to put yourself through the worst version of Skyrim on the PS3 because you though Sony wasn’t going to nickel and dime you for on line. It’s sad and it’s probably going to get worse.

  26. oldschool1987:

    I feel sorry for me, stuck with the console that is considered the LCD, in more ways than one: exclusive wise, graphics, DVD discs, expensive online, faulty hardware. Not to mention the highest rated game this year is worse off on the 360.

  27. oldschool1987:

    Oh and now sales, every year it’s been outsold by the PS3 in worldwide sales.

    And the above game mention is Arkham.

  28. Kushy:

    I agree and back up CarlB 100% on the matter of this online pass bullshit! It is pure greed and takes away value of owning a PS3! I swap games with friends all the time, I spend way more money on PS3 then the average gamer, and I’m rewarded with having to pay an extra $10 if I want to borrow a game and play it online on my PS3. It’s a nickel and diming practise and now PS3′s free online service is not so much to brag about anymore. They pull this shit with Vita and you can count me out, I won’t be buying it!

  29. The Future of Sega:

    Such a sad day in video gaming..

  30. jojo29:

    Carlb
    You can thank Microsoft for paving the way for developers charging for online pay..

    But you mentioned its for used/rental games as this has been the case ever since the bullshit of ‘Online Pass’ was brought up…if forces you to buy new…which indeed sucks ass and it sucks more and more developers are adopting this practice ( thanks to MS example <–one of the reasons i m so against this )

    Well, Carlb, you can't blame Sony for jumping on the used game/rental bandwagon <—as these are the gamers affected (including myself)…

    In all honesty, i don't know what to think but Carlb you are only not even HALF right..Sony DOES NOT CHARGE for standard online gaming…MS version will be WORSE once developers start adopting this horrid practice…it will PROVE that LIVE Gold is a complete rip, as you will STILL have to shell out the $60 to access Gold and Online play as it is, now you will be nickel and dimed on a PER used/rented game basis <—it will and has already happened..

    "What a shame, as I always considered Sony and PS3 the last bastion of free online access, whether you had a new or used game. It was one of the reasons I admired and supported them over MS and 360, and now that reason is slowly disappearing."

    Blame MS for this Carlb, and yes i agree this is only the begining unless we fucking start voting with our wallets or another petition is started, but Sony IS the last bastion of free gaming….at least if you buy your games new…either way, RIGHT NOW MS STILL CHARGES $60 WHETHER YOU BUY NEW OR USED JUST TO ACCESS ONLINE PLAY…..Sony is doing what greedy corporations do best: try and find ways to nickel and dime us ( i HAVE NEVER EVER DEFENDED SONY in this regards, but like you i believe Sony to "more" "for the gamer" so to speak than Microsoft ) <–who pretty much started this charging for online play, AND WONT EVEN LET DEVELOPERS RELEASE FREE DLC on LIVE so don't give me this bullshit that all of a sudden Sony is as bad as MS….MS is by far worse and the reason they havent seen a single cent from me..

    Now, if next generation (or even this one ) Sony starts to actually adopt a LIVE Gold system…Sony can kiss my ass too as i will just switch back to PC Gaming :)

    We are at the forefront of great changes to our medium my friends, i still believe we are in for a repeat of a the 80s video game crash and these are the very reasons, mostly to blame Microsoft, but right now theres simply too many new models developers/consumers are trying to find the 'middle' ground, but, as always, developers/publishers are greedy motherfuckers, they WILL piss off the gamers, and, like before, the gamers WILL SPEAK WITH THEIR WALLETS…the problem is…how long will we let this go on?

  31. oldschool1987:

    “Now, if next generation (or even this one ) Sony starts to actually adopt a LIVE Gold system…Sony can kiss my ass too as i will just switch back to PC Gaming”

    Same here, if Sony start charging me to play my games and charging me to use my own Internet connection which I’m already paying for then they can fuck right off, I’ll skip next generation or just stick with Nintendo. Microsoft and Activision have really done a number on this generation of gaming. It’s a shame that there is people stupid enough to pay for a service that is free elsewhere and is exactly the same (except XGC).

  32. oldschool1987:

    Don’t know why we are complaining anyway, there’s no hint that Sony are even going to start charging, just a few people on here being pessimists. I’m still playing a MMO on the PSN for free (DC) and every single other game online for free. The only people Sony and all other companies are fucking over are the used game consumers, which is totally unfair, but to say they are charging for online play is going OTT.

  33. jojo29:

    Yes exactly oldschool,
    Yes we all can agree that Online Pass and PSN Pass are total bullshit business models against the used game market…i DO NOT support this practice AT ALL, but to say Sony is charging for Online play period..fuck when i read Carlb’s comment i fucking rushed over to my PS3 to check it out…thanks for that heart attack Carlb you asshole!! (<–insert a humorous tone with that Carlb, but serioudly you fucking gave me a heart attack lol )

    Now, the thing is, i dont understand why the industry is against the used game market..yes, yes i fucking understand the developers do not get a dime from a used sale or rental or trade ins…but guess what?

    If im buying a used game or renting a game its because of one of THREE factors:

    1. Im fucking broke,and can't afford the full price and thanks for point that out assholes
    2. Im broke and i can't even afford to buy it used so im renting it instead, and again, thanks for point that out assholes
    3. Your game doesn't look all that in comparison to whats out there and i'd rather check it out by using factors 1 or 2..you want my money? Develop a better fucking looking game AND market it so i just 'HAVE TO HAVE IT'..

    The GOOD in the above factors is, if it turns out i like the game, i will definitely be buying its sequel brand new, AND i will buy x game that the developer makes simply based on how good the game was…by eliminating these options, you are going to shoot yourselves in your own foot..people that couldnt afford your games will no longer be able to experience them and you will have essentially killed your word of mouth sales..ON TOP of netting yourselves a bad reputation for supporting such a piece of shit practice….

  34. FahKinSuPah:

    What bad timing…. The laser on my 360 has been acting up for a couple weeks now and finally went dead this morning. I’ve been trying to finish off Dynasty Warriors 7 and i’m like maybe 2 more hours of play time left to 100% it.

    So i’m pretty pissed that it does this before I could finish DW7 and also because I will have my hands on FFXIII-2 in a couple days.

    Oh well.. its just a laser and lasers die on things all the time. I ordered a replacement laser this morning and should have it in a few days so I won’t be without my 360 for long.

    In the meantime I am borrowing my nephews 360.

  35. oldschool1987:

    “In the meantime I am borrowing my nephews 360.”

    Catch up on your PS3 Fahk. Surely you must of missed out on one or two of the many, many exclusives released last year? Lol

  36. FahKinSuPah:

    @oldschool

    Whats the point? FFXIII-2 comes out on tuesday and aside from finishing up DW7 thats really the only thing I want to play right now.

    I was playing Dead Island but that game is really not all that great.

  37. CarlB:

    “Well, Carlb, you can’t blame Sony”

    Yes, I can and do, because I specifically switched to them to avoid these practices. I never bought the whole “they’re doing it, so why can’t we” argument in the Marine Corps or life when it comes do doing the right thing, so I’m not about to start now.

    “Sony DOES NOT CHARGE for standard online gaming”

    Depends on what you define as standard. I define it as what their standard practice was since the start of this generation. Their “standard” wasn’t charging for online play in rentals and used games before. Their standard was much better than Microsoft’s because of this philosophy. Not so much now.

    “unless we fucking start voting with our wallets or another petition is started”

    Yes, that’s exactly what I am doing and have done in the past, voting with my wallet (i.e. switching to PS3 in the first place and now not purchasing PSN Pass) and opposing it in writing. Unfortunately, gamers who rent or buy used now have no choice but to buy new or purchase PSN Pass if they want to play online, and some are naturally going to spend the money. This increase in revenue will only encourage those who decided to make the change to make another after that revenue stream has grown to it’s full potential.

    “there’s no hint that Sony are even going to start charging”

    PSN Pass is more than a hint, it is now an ugly reality and a smear on Sony’s previous reputation for totally avoiding such practices. They are now charging for online play where they did not before in rentals and used games, and more nickel and diming is likely to follow.

  38. CarlB:

    http://www.change.org/petitions/sony-corporation-stop-psn-pass#

  39. Roca.:

    “Halo, Forza, Gears, Fable didn’t have anything like this where you have to pay extra (beyond XBLG)”

    XBLG ($60) for all those games you mentioned above for all other games with online passes (BF3, Need for Speed, UFC, Tiger Woods, Madden, Batman:AC, Medal of Honor, etc) its $60 (XBLG) + $10 per game.

    360 exclusives requrired XBLG and Gold doesn’t even save for from games that require an Online pass..

    PSN remains free…online pass is an old story…nothing has change.

  40. Roca.:

    Curt Schilling (38 Studios founder) – “DAY 1 DLC, to be extremely and VIVIDLY clear, is FREE, 100% totally FREE, to anyone that buys a new copy of Reckoning, ANYONE.

    If you don’t buy new games you buy them used, and in that case you will have to pay for the Day 1 free DLC content the new copy buyers got for free.

    It’s clear the intent right? To promote early adopters and MUCH MORE IMPORTANT TO ME, REWARD fans and gamers who commit to us with their time and money when it benefits the company.

    Every single person on the planet could wait and not buy Reckoning, the game would hit the bargain bin at some point and you could get it cheaper. 38 Studios would likely go away.

    That’s just how business works. We MUST make a profit to become what we want to become. THE ONLY way we do that is to make games you CANNOT WAIT TO BUY! If we do that, and you do that, we want to reward you with some cool free stuff as a thank you”

    Carl definitely will boycott Kingdoms of Amalur – since the standard was that people who rent game get the same exact content as those who buy them new..

  41. CarlB:

    PSN Pass is not free.
    Sony has just implemented this program.

  42. Roca.:

    “PSN Pass is not free”

    It hasn’t cost me anything yet.

    and like you said in the other thread..things like this “is actually a decent way of incentivizing new purchases” and I agree

  43. CarlB:

    The difference between Kingdoms of Amalur online pass and PSN Pass is that it doesn’t prevent you from earning a platinum on a rental or used game.

    The content that comes with the pass is stand alone DLC that will be made available regardless. I think this is a perfectly acceptable way to promote the purchase of a new game, as it doesn’t take anything away from what was offered before and only adds value.

    Even if this wasn’t the case, EA is a third party publisher, not a first party one like Sony, who has avoided such policies in the past.

    The bottom line with PSN Pass is millions of gamers are getting less for their money now (no longer able to platinum a game without paying extra) than they have in the past because of the program, not more.

    When Sony adopted the standpoint on an issue, in this case not having to pay for online play in it’s exclusive new, used, or rental games, at the start of this generation, then changed that policy to you do have to pay, it became a negative for millions of gamers.

    Trying to skirt this issue by pointing out exceptions with a third party publisher (EA), or another console manufacturer (MS- you know, the one that you so vehemently criticized before for similar practices and in turn praised Sony for polar opposite practices), is simply misdirection from the main point that there is no good reason that the gamer should be charged for it in the first place.

  44. CarlB:

    If PSN Pass only included stand alone DLC that did not interfere with the platinum trophies (as KOA seems to) then it would be a decent way of incentivizing new purchases.

    As it stands now it takes away from the original game by charging you for stuff that was not charged before (platinum trophies).

  45. Roca.:

    “The content that comes with the pass is stand alone DLC that will be made available regardless”

    think of the online pass as a “DLC that will be made available regardless”

    “it would be a decent way of incentivizing new purchases.”

    same goes for online pass.

  46. CarlB:

    “think of the online pass as a ‘DLC that will be made available regardless”’

    Except it is not. Once it crosses the line into original game content (the platinum), it is no longer “stand-alone DLC”.

  47. jojo29:

    Signed and shared on my FB

    Roca
    Sony once didn’t charge for rentals/used game..no matter how its spun…they charge now..instead of defending this ugly practice, sign the petition

  48. CaptBirdman:

    I have to agree with Carl.

    The online pass is why I didn’t platinum UC3. It’s bullshit, and I will not defend any company that has them.

  49. CaptBirdman:

    What’s you FB Jojo?

    I want to sign that petition. They need to get the fuck out of here with that online pass nonsense. I will buy every game used if they’re going to do this shit.

    Except Mass Effect 3… that’s one of my day ones. The other is RE6.

  50. Barnabe Jones:

    OMG Carl B is on the warpath. They’re two little bronze trophies ;)

    btw the online is pretty awesome. Co-op has an entirely separate set of scenarios, and dialog. There’s even a bunch of unique levels.

    Bird brain,

    “I will buy every game used if they’re going to do this shit.”

    You realize that GameStop will change you more for that used game, than you can get it for new on Amazon? Who’s getting screwed there?

  51. Barnabe Jones:

    Next Xbox Report Round Up

    “Perhaps the most controversial news to come out of this week was that the system would not allow used games to be played on it.”

    http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/121/1217393p1.html

    Let’s discus. I can’t wait to hear everyone defend this now.

  52. Barnabe Jones:

    Xbox 720: A Crime Against Consumers

    http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/121/1217310p1.html

  53. CarlB:

    “They’re two little bronze trophies”

    If that’s all they were then I would be fine with it.
    Unfortunately they tie into the plat.

    “btw the online is pretty awesome”

    I only wanted to plat the game. This only takes a minute or two online. For those who think it’s “pretty awesome” they are welcome to pay $10 for it, but please, just don’t mess around with the platinum for the original game.

    Fortunately 720 charging for used games is merely a rumor at this point.

    Unfortunately, PS3 successfully charging for online play in rentals and used exclusive games can only reinforce this type of nickel and dime policy/mindset.

    There is no way any gamer in their right mind would defend this type of policy, unless perhaps they were a shareholder and could benefit from profiteering.

    “You realize that GameStop will change you more for that used game, than you can get it for new on Amazon?”

    The market always supports the better value, unless of course there are forces trying to synthetically overcharge for the same services enjoyed for free in the past (PSN Pass/XBLG). Now with PSN Pass being implemented, extortion is considered fair game by gamers like roca. What a shame.

  54. CarlB:

    According them Sony is justified because of Microsoft charging for online play with XBLG.
    Now Microsoft will in turn be justified furthermore to block used games next gen because Sony successfully incorporated PSN Pass this gen with the full and undeniable support of gamers like Roca.
    How pitiful.

  55. CarlB:

    “I have to agree with Carl.
    The online pass is why I didn’t platinum UC3. It’s bullshit, and I will not defend any company that has them.”

    Fucking A’ cap. Right on. Now I fully admit your genius.

    “I want to sign that petition.”

    Here you go:

    http://www.change.org/petitions/sony-corporation-stop-psn-pass#

    I could use your help, as I cancelled my FB account. Please promote it on FB and anywhere else you can. Any help from anyone at this point is fully welcome and fully warranted to keep Sony’s rep clean and help win the future for the gaming industry at large.

  56. CaptBirdman:

    Barnabe–

    Bird brain? Really?

    Were they out of jokes at the 99 cents store?

    Anyway, you failed to take into account in your mini-rant that I said nothing about Gamestop. That’s one of the worst stores to buy anything from– I should know; I’ve worked for them.

    Here in LA, there is a wonderful Japanese-owned bookstore called Book-Off in the Del Amo mall (there’s also one near Marukai market in Torrance) that pays 20%-30% more cash (they don’t deal with store credit at all) for trade ins and sells used games at an extremely fair price.

    Example, a brand new game (that retails for $65 at Gamestop) gets you a trade in of $20 at Gamestop IN STORE CREDIT. Cash is usually 15-17 dollars.

    At Book-Off, you get the same game for $34 cash. And their used prices are very fair, with just released games going for $45-50. So, you can shove Gamestop up your ass.

    And with Amazon, it takes a bit to get to your home. I like going to Book-Off and having my game in hand.

  57. jojo29:

    http://www.facebook.com/Jojoi29

    Carlb
    I also shared that link on my G+

  58. CarlB:

    Bahaha (*Brian Blessed Flash Gordon accent*)
    Brilliant! Jojo and Cap!
    “Saviors of the Universe!”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNf9rEPoc8Q

  59. ncaissie:

    “Blame MS for this Carlb, and yes i agree this is only the begining unless we fucking start voting with our wallets or another petition is started,”
    Only problem with this is we are a minority. Don’t forget most of the people buying these games are clueless parents and the kids don’t give a shit.

  60. ncaissie:

    Think about it guys. If you pay $ whatever for a game that includes an online pass then you are paying for that pass. Aka paying for online. Spin it all you want because you know you are.

  61. twilight:

    It’s the dawn of a new gaming age it seems. Personally, this doesn’t really effect me. I don’t usually rent or buy used video games anyways.
    Microsoft Vs Sony–In the end, they are both just money-making companies. You have Microsoft that created the worse gaming hardware in history and charges you for everything. They finally get around to adding features/stuff that should of already been there. They update the dashboard for Kinnect and functionality takes a step backward. The picture quality of apps is washed out. There are Kinnect commercials every where and the dashboard is bloated with advertisements. You can hardly click into an app without seeing a freaking Kinnect commercial or Forza game commercial. Sony has stumbled because they launched a year later with quality hardware and higher pricing then the competition with newer technology that developers had a harder time developing for. Multi-platform games suffered badly early on on Ps3 because of this. Sony later on removed features from the Ps3.

  62. Roca.:

    “They finally get around to adding features/stuff that should of already been there. They update the dashboard for Kinnect and functionality takes a step backward. The picture quality of apps is washed out. There are Kinnect commercials every where and the dashboard is bloated with advertisements. You can hardly click into an app without seeing a freaking Kinnect commercial or Forza game commercial.”

    Twilight,

    shhh, you don’t want Godless calling you a liar.
    In Godless’ world the 360 video picture quality is on par with Bluray and there aren’t any ads in its UI

    I remember when HH used to lied about 360 UI not having ads and FahKin shut him up and told him the 360 UI is in fact a ads fest.

  63. jojo29:

    ^^ nice sum up twilight :)

  64. jojo29:

    HH the dipshit
    He was wrong about pretty much everything he ever commented about:
    His LG player being better because it played one more audio codec than the ps3…i showed him the link provong that the ps3 was the best BR player second only to one other player..an otto player

    BR is unnecessary…developers proved him wrong on this as well as history lol

    WIFI and HDMI arent needed….his own MS proved him wrong here…

    PSSN being inferior…..subjective on UI preference, but in functionality PSN outdoes or is on par with LIVE give or take a few functions,i.e background and patching is better and faster on LIVE (whoa an unbiased assessment! !)

    So in the end, it was the xbots who are rabid blind fanboys…while we remain jist fanboys…

  65. Roca.:

    @jojo
    remember HH excuse for dismissing all of the PS3′s added features

    -I don’t need bluray, because I have a dual format LG player and a 360 HD-DVD add on

    -don’t need wifi because I have everything wired at home and my ethernet cable is long enough

    -3D is shit because I simply don’t care for it

    -PS3 supports better audio codecs and picture quality than the 360…it’s worthless since I have a HTPC & 2 laptops

    -PSN is free…don’t care since XBLG cost “pennis” a day

    -PS3 offer cheap HDD upgrade? psst, I can do the same on 360, by buying a standard HDD, formatting the crap out of it and only allow the Xbox to use 120GB from it (if you allowed more MS will know you did some tweaking), opening the shell of the 360 propietary HDD and inserting the new HDD.

    he needed a room full of useless junk, cables and multiple deivices (while paying for online) in order to get a PS3-quality experience

  66. CarlB:

    “PSN is free”

    Used to be.

  67. twilight:

    CarlB,
    Psn is still free. You just can’t play rental/used games for free online without the pass and get all the full game benefits.

  68. Barnabe Jones:

    Didn’t they announce the PSN for uncharted 3 six months ago?

  69. phranctoast:

    Dry the crocodile tears about online pass when that isn’t even the problem.

    The problem is multiplayer trophies. It’s also why you won’t plat assassins creed brotherhood.

    I do agree at the very least they should offer up a one day trial pass per profile to alleviate this issue with renters.

  70. Barnabe Jones:

    I am an ex-Gamefly member, but it was just something I accepted. Most games I rented, I didn’t even bother with the online portion because I wanted to have a quick turnaround. If I wanted to play an online game, I’d just buy it.

    And again, they announced this about six months ago. Throwing a tantrum about it now is pointless.

    The 720 not allowing used games is a much larger issue, and also a current topic.

    PS4 FTW!

  71. CarlB:

    “Psn is still free.”

    Saying PSN is still free at this point is like saying someone is still free because they are only chained by one leg and free to breathe.

    Millions of gamers who did not have to pay a tacked on fee of $10 before now have to. That, my friend, is not “free”.

    “It’s also why you won’t plat assassins creed brotherhood.”

    No. There are plenty of titles I don’t plat because of the time sink in order to. ACB is one of them. This isn’t the case with UC3.

    “they announced this about six months ago.”

    It hasn’t affected me until just recently.
    Sorry, I just don’t like paying exorbitant fees for content I previously enjoyed for free. If people just roll over on this and let Sony have their way, then not only is 720 more likely to not allow used games, PS4 is also.

  72. CarlB:

    @phranc, I think they should give all PSN Plus subscribers a master “PSN Pass”.

  73. Roca.:

    @Carl

    The gaming industry hates the used game market & you won’t have to wait until the X720 is here to see developers trying to stop you from playing used games….PC has already been doing this for year with its CD Key and it’s a matter of time before console adopt something similar.

    If you’re building a platform, you will try as hard as you can to protect assets, content and its partners…and try to maximaze profit from your OWN intellectual property..I’m sure you know this since you support Apple and they’re one of the worst offender.

  74. ncaissie:

    Stoping used games doesn’t help the game developers Roca. It’s simply cutting off a chunk of the market they don’t like. I will still buy used just wait even longer if it has online. Or just not get the game at all. I think we are beating a dead horse on this topic CarlB.

  75. Roca.:

    “I will still buy used just wait even longer if it has online”

    it would not matter to the game developers how long you wait (or whether you get the game or not)…they won’t don’t see any money from used game sales. Gamestop is the one getting all your money.

  76. CarlB:

    “The gaming industry hates the used game market”

    I never argued that. What those who would eliminate it can’t see is how it actually helps them in the long run because it supports the same gamers who also buy new. Pull that support for same customers who already support you and you wind up with less sales because they cannot afford as much.

    The used game market is already declining naturally because of the rental game market. Rental companies buy new games. Games actually sell for longer because of rental companies.

    “PC has already been doing this for year with its CD Key”

    And look where that practice got them when comparing PC game sales to console game sales.

    “since you support Apple and they’re one of the worst offender.”

    How on earth do you think Apple is “the worst offender”?
    It’s brought us games that are affordable enough for the average gamer to buy every day if they wanted. There are no used games for it because it doesn’t use physical media at all. They had the foresight to know that if they could only sell new, they had to bring the prices down to where everyone could afford it. They are not the ones who charge the same price or more for games online as you can get hard copy from the store. And because of this foresight developers are making millions.

    Sony could have done the same things with PSN, PSP or Vita but they’ve decided not to. Instead we have to pay $100 for a $30 sd card. Instead we have to pay 5 to ten times as much for the same game on PSN or at retail. They even charge more for some games on PSN then what is available new at retail. Sony is the worst offender when it comes to these aspects.

    I don’t mind that they want to maximize profit, just as long as they don’t take away capabilities we previously enjoyed without charge, which is exactly what they are doing with the PSN Pass program.

  77. Roca.:

    “And look where that practice got them when comparing PC game sales to console game sales”

    it could’ve been worse without any CD Key ;)

    “How on earth do you think Apple is “the worst offender”?”

    They don’t let anyone make any profit or access anything form their products, content, intellectual properties (pantents, software/hardware, etc) and they are against competition.

    Funny seeing Carl whining about this when all other companies have been doing this for years (EA, Ubisoft, THQ, WB, etc) and has become the norm now…

    what isn’t the norm is what Microsoft is doing (XBLG, carl supported it for years) which doesn’t even save you from online passes and it’s a requirement for used and new games and to earn online achievements and 1K’d games.

    In fact, unlike many companies I see Sony is putting all the money they get to good use – they are still bringing new IPs, they keep founding sequels & AAA quality games, they keep giving us free online (PSN) & free content (PSN+)…and they don’t close studios for having shitty game sales – http://goo.gl/vWx1g

    They also keep buying and investing in first party studios:

    =====================New IPs this gen:
    -LittleBigPlanet
    -Uncharted
    -Heavenly Sword
    -Infamous
    -Heavy Rain
    -Resistance
    -Motorstorm
    -MAG
    -ModNation Racers
    -DC Universe Online
    -Warhawk (reviving/reinventing old IP)
    -Twisted Metal (reviving/reinventing old IP)

    =====================Studio Acquisitions this gen
    -Guerrilla Games
    -Zipper Interactive
    -Evolution Studios
    -BigBig
    -Media Molecule
    -Sucker Punch Productions

  78. twilight:

    Roca,
    This seems to be the direction that the industry is heading in. They really want to discourage people from buying used games. I wouldn’t be surprised if Microsoft started implementing something similar to this. It’s like when people got upset with Ps3′s user agreement. Microsoft turned around and re-did their user agreement exactly like Sony’s user agreement as well.

  79. jojo29:

    Roca
    Im pretty much in the same boat as carlb on this, develipers, be it Sony or MS are stupid to combat the used game sales in this manner…

    And guys, please stop using the PC….developers HAD to go through CD keys to the EASE of which a computer allows you to burn and pirate games in that industry…even then, you can still play pirated games online aka Skyrim (in order to play Skyrim online, youd have to be online through steam) also, you cant just borrow and bring a pc game over…youd have to do the install each and everytime…

    Killing the used game market in themanner these douches are doing, will only piss off the gamers…..as has explained before there are some games i cant afford so i trade in the dust collectoers and buy new…id say i buy 80/20 new/used games ratiolly…get rid of the used game market and guess what that 80 will drop to about 60%…..now multiply that by millions as i know for fact im not alone in this practice and thats a lot more missed sales than if theyd leave it alone and let the used game market die naturally…

    A lot of families cant afford new games and nuy exclusively used with the occasional new game…take them out of the equation and you lost both a console sale and games sale…..

    If they go forth with this pathetic scheme THE ONLY WAY theyd recoup ia if they reduce game prices…and im not talking $40 games im talking $20 for Uncharted 4 and greatest hits for $10….thats the best way for both interests….but we all know a price reduction will not happen

  80. Roca.:

    @jojo
    I understand what you’re saying but publishers to make profit to pay their employees (developers)…and most importantly…fund the next AAA game or risky IP

    I would’ve been pissed at Sony if they weren’t producing a constant stream of exclusive. Don’t don’t give on games that sell poorly..and for the most part they are willing to take the hit and keep supporting their developers – read this http://goo.gl/vWx1g – We’re still seeing Sony support Last Guardian even though the previous 2 sold poorly. MAG is still being supported by Sony (patches, servers, etc) even though it didn’t sell well.

    All for great IP and AAA quality games…I wouldn’t want PS3 and 360 produce shitty smartphone quality games.

    You boought BF3 because you wanted to support what you enjoy — an awesome online experience.

  81. CarlB:

    “it could’ve been worse without any CD Key”

    It was worse with it, as it wound up being just another reason gamers had to move to console games.

    “They don’t let anyone make any profit or access anything form their products”

    Sorry, but millions of game developers who profit greatly from their games on iOS say hello. The same games that sell only thousands on PSP/DS have wound up selling millions on iOS.

    Yes, there is a stringent review process, but that helps iOS from having a 500% increase of malware like what is now on Android.

    “they are against competition”

    They beat the competition by offering a better product. How can a competitor be against competition? What they are against is companies that copy and steal their patented work. That’s not “against competition”, it’s against thievery.

    Look. I’m still using my PS3. I’m not boycotting it. I just dislike these types of practices in general. Sony doesn’t need to do this if they were just smart about it. Don’t mess with the platinum, and let PSN Plus subscribers have a free PSN Pass on all games new or used.

    “but publishers to make profit to pay their employees (developers)…and most importantly…fund the next AAA game or risky IP”

    UC3 would have sold 4 million the first day with or without PSN Pass. Over $110,000,000.00 in revenue to the developer and publisher the first day of sales alone. It cost around $10M to make, so they already saw $100,000,000.00 in profit on the first day of sale, that’s more than enough profit for future AAA or “risky” IP without having to resort to extorting even more from renters at $10 a copy.

    “I wouldn’t want PS3 and 360 produce shitty smartphone quality games.”

    Too late. PS3 already has PixelJunk and Critter Crunch. I thought you said you enjoyed these?

  82. jojo29:

    Roca
    They already make their money, their weaksauce argument is “potential lost sale due to the used game market” and, as carlb pointed out, UC3 sold 4 million first day, thats $110 million, minus the development cost which leaves them with $100 million to pay their employees…thats just first day sales and we all know Sonys exclusives are slow and steady burners…

    Look, we are not out against the developers or publishers….thats why we buy as many new games as we are allowed too financially…..but, the thing is, they are taking away choice….

    If im pissed at Blizzard, who is my all time favorite developers by far and hands down, JUST for REQUIRING online activation every time you boot up Diablo 3…imagine how pissed id be if a system totally got rid of a choice? Actually, online activation seems like shit compared to what EA/Activision/Ms andbthe rest have started..

  83. jojo29:

    Check this out too
    http://www.joystiq.com/2012/01/30/psn-north-american-senior-director-susan-panico-leaves-sony/

    77 million PSN users…thats a helluva lot more than the ~25 million LIVE users and the ~10 million Gold dumb asses subscribed to it…oh wait, simple math shows thats more than double both LIVE and Gold users…now to use what i like to call “MS 360 fanboy logic”:

    PSN/PSN+ is better than LIVE/LIVE Gold because we have more online members ( aka “sales ” )

    /tucks Fanboy skirt back in…

  84. Godless:

    jojo

    you only have to go online to know the 360 is a lot busier,

    You need to remember that you can only login with one account at a time, and with most PS3 having several accounts on them it seriously impacts on the number of active accounts possible any one time.

    I wonder how many PSN + members there are?

    What I would really love to see, is accurate data on the actual numbers online, for both systems. because I think the 360 is still in front, it certainly feels that way.

    PS
    Roca I was playing Gears 3 online last night, and it did not have the same problems as uncharted 3 with everyone rolling around the maps. lag felt minimal, and maps were like the oldschool shooter style. way better than I was expecting.

    Odd thing is this game doesn’t require an online pass. I got the game for a tenner and it’s fully functional.

  85. phranctoast:

    “Odd thing is this game doesn’t require an online pass. I got the game for a tenner and it’s fully functional.”

    What does that mean? A tenner? $10. Did you buy it used?

  86. phranctoast:

    @godless
    U3 doesn’t support dedicated servers while this iteration of gears does. That could be why you notice a difference.

    That brings me to another point about online pass that I’ll address once I have a keyboard in front of me rather than a phone.

  87. oldschool1987:

    “you only have to go online to know the 360 is a lot busier”

    Link?

    Jojo posted numbers of how things actually are and you refute them with …opinion?

  88. phranctoast:

    My opinion on online pass.

    IMHO online pass should only be used on online games that utilize dedicated servers. If a game uses them, it’s a no brainer as why an additional cost should be expected from people that buy second hand, as servers are not free.

    Any game not using dedicated servers and are using Peer to peer instead should not have an online pass component. There’s no reason to charge for someone to use their own PS3/360 as a server.

    Single player games are a little bit tougher to deal with. While sometimes still called online pass, as the name has been established as such, are of course not that. Just recently Kingdoms of Amalur was seeing a shit fit thrown as they decided to make the first DLC pack for new game buyers only. I have no problem with giving first time owners incentive to buy new. The problem there, is there’s a fine line between that and denying people what should have been on the disc to begin with. Catwomen DLC (already on the disc) comes to mind, as well as locking out some Sewers in Rage.

    The bottom line is someone is always going to have something to complain about no matter what. Carlb proved this where if you look close enough you can see his problem isn’t really online pass per-se but Multiplayer trophies. If MP trophies didn’t exist chances are we would never hear of this issue from him.

    Now truth be told. Online pass is not for servers or even online, but to to thwart used game sales.

    Publishers always knew they were getting screwed by used games sales but now they finally have the data to back it up.

    There’s an ideal to work online pass for renters and used owners and it doesn’t seem like we reached that yet with OP still in its infancy.

  89. Roca.:

    “Roca I was playing Gears 3 online last night, and it did not have the same problems as uncharted 3 with everyone rolling around the maps. lag felt minimal, and maps were like the oldschool shooter style. way better than I was expecting”

    @Godless
    of you didn’t, every single 360 exclusives run and looks perfect in your eyes (Kameo anyone??).

    I already achieved the highest rank in U3 online (Rank 75) and I didn’t have any issues with it..all modes are a blast to play and never had any problem finding a single match (til this very day).

    Game play smoother than Gears and it has alot more going out – ability to rotate the camera 360 degree, climbing, jumb, zip lining, shooting in mid-air, dynamic melee/combat system, etc.

    @Godless
    “Odd thing is this game doesn’t require an online pass. I got the game for a tenner and it’s fully functional”

    oddly enough, mine came with the online pass and was fully functional (and still is & will always be)…not need for XBLG ($60) to play and no need to renew it in the future (another $60)

  90. Roca.:

    @Phranc
    “DLC (already on the disc) comes to mind”

    I’m not sure if the Catwoman DLC is on the disc…I remember doing a huge download for it.

  91. Godless:

    your missing the point as usual roca

    MS in house game, no requirement for online pass when buying game second hand. Sony in house games require pass to play online.

    you such a fanboy you get hurt every time I comment on a PS3 game negatively, even if the same game happens to be my favourite game.

    you’re such a rabid fanboy you can’t even see jaggies on a PS3 game that full of them UC3, So you opinion on graphics is no better than my own.

    What do you think of the jaggies on infamous 2? does this game even have AA?

    bet rocas copy is smooth with 16×16 AA like in the most powerful super computers with 27GB data transfer per clock cycle. LMFAO

  92. phranctoast:

    I’d love to here your justification godless for paying for peer to peer servers. Considering that only two 360 exclusives even touch on some semblance of dedicated servers, how do you justify having to pay to play all online? Whether you rent or purchase.

  93. Roca.:

    @Godless
    your missing the point as usual Godless

    MS in house game (or not, requires XBLG ($60) when buying game NEW or second hand (it doesn’t matter)…even worst, if you buy a game that requires an online pass (let’s say, BF3) you have to still pay the XBLG fee + the online pass.

    in fact, even you buy the the game NEW at full price with the online pass included – YOU CAN’t even play 50% of the game unless you take it in the ass from MS and let them take $60 from you (every year) just to access the other half of your games.

    If you’re a gold member (which you are) you shouldn’t be bitching about online pass…hypocrite

    What about Infamous 2? I just know it 10x better than Crackdown 2 (graphically & critically..and sold much better)

  94. phranctoast:

    Roca’s right. If you pay for XBL you look like a colassal ass talking about online pass.

  95. jojo29:

    Bravo Godless!!
    you now see the difference between peer to peer and dedicated servers….but please dont talk about graphics…uc3 does have jaggies some levels more pronounced than others…what game doesnt…gears3 is jagfest..hell some of the wheels on the vehicles aint even perfect circles….uc3 is still the pinnacle of this gens graphical awards…since its dirst iteration it has always garnered graphical praise and awards…

  96. Godless:

    “If you’re a gold member (which you are) you shouldn’t be bitching about online pass…hypocrite”

    I have never complained about online passes, I think they are a fair way for producers to make money from the second hand market.

    show me where I was bitching about online passes?

    I pretty much agree with phranc on the online pass issue.

  97. phranctoast:

    “Publishers always knew they were getting screwed by used games sales but now they finally have the data to back it up.”

    To ellaborate on this. The data I mentioned is the amount of different profiles vs trophy data or online data that publsihers can now see.

  98. Roca.:

    “gears3 is jagfest..hell some of the wheels on the vehicles aint even perfect circles”

    LMAO

    @godless
    “show me where I was bitching about online passes?”

    you said this about Gears vs U3 – “Odd thing is this game doesn’t require an online pass. I got the game for a tenner and it’s fully functional”

    then you said “Sony in house games require pass to play online” as if it was a bad thing.

  99. CarlB:

    “if you look close enough you can see his problem isn’t really online pass per-se but Multiplayer trophies. If MP trophies didn’t exist chances are we would never hear of this issue from him.”

    Actually it’s the platinum (which they made the MP trophy tie into). If they hadn’t of tied it in to the platinum then I wouldn’t have any issue with PSN Pass.

  100. phranctoast:

    So they should make MP trophies like DLC trophies. Not tied to the plat. I’m fine with that.

    Now CB. Take the whole used vs new and online pass vs not from a developer/publisher point of view.

    What would you do to limit the second hand market?

  101. jojo29:

    Phranc
    I know your question was at carlb, but imma take it :

    I would do absolutely nothing…i can see limiting it if the video game game industry was being hurt by it…fact is, the industry is bigger than most mediums in terms of profit….so really, what is the used game market doing? Nothing…video games continue to show growth without it slowing down anytime soon….its just greed plain and simple…

  102. CarlB:

    “What would you do to limit the second hand market?”

    Beat them at their own game by providing more value, as Sony is doing with PSN Plus.

    PSN Plus is essentially a rental service, and it has been observed that publishers actually support the rental industry, as it brings in revenue. Not only that, but the rise of the rental industry is causing the used game industry to decline.

    These rental services also allow gamers to pay for and play games they otherwise would never have played or even considered before.

    Beyond this, bring down the prices for digitally distributed games in general. Not only at launch but also over time. Beat, match, or come close enough to used game prices and they ultimately win because there is less room for people to profit off used games sales. Not only will they profit more because more people can afford them, it also means more online sales, which means less games in the used game market to begin with.

    Accelerate online sales adoption through exceptional pricing, services, and value. PSN Plus is a great example, but could also be much better by throwing in a new retail game every once in a while, or at the very least, heavily discounting them on a regular basis for members.

    Just some ideas.

  103. CarlB:

    Don’t get me wrong, I am very pleased with PSN Plus as it is now, but see many ways in which it could be better. For instance, if they are going to give away games for with the subscription, make sure they are only top reviewed games, if this means only 1 Mini instead of 2, or even dropping Minis altogether I wouldn’t mind to greatly.

    Full game trial is good, but why limit it to 1 hour? Why not allow the full game, with trophies?

    They could also tier the system by letting subscribers choose the amount of content they want.
    Say the bottom, least expensive tier is 1 PSN exclusive free per month, while the most expensive one could have full retail game access with trophies enabled.

    More choice equals more control for the customer, and the customer will always pay more for value added. The customer (or at least sane ones), will also always be upset when value is subtracted (as is the case with PSN Pass).

  104. CarlB:

    GameFly currently gets $16 per month from me for “one game at a time”.
    PSN Plus gets the equivalent of $4 per month from me.

    I would happily play 4 times more for PSN plus if they could match or beat what GameFly offers with trophies enabled. That would essentially mean 4 times more revenue for Sony, developers, and publishers. They already sell the games online, all they need to do is enable them as they have already done with PSN Plus. This would not only cut used game sales, but also the physical rental market (GameFly), which is already experimenting with this concept online.

  105. CarlB:

    It isn’t greed when you provide more value to the customer.

  106. CarlB:

    “So what can platform holders do to offset what I would see as the inevitable collapse of the software market whilst still maintaining a freeze on pre-owned? Well, lower game prices would seem the only option. That string of releases would be far more affordable at £25.”

    http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/opinion-the-end-of-pre-owned-would-be-a-disaster-for-games/090322

  107. phranctoast:

    All good ideas, and definitely outside the box from what I expected to hear.

    I would:
    -All new buyers get all the games DLC for free.
    -Stay competitive with used market games prices ( I think they’ve been doing this OK so far except digitally if you don’t have Plus.

  108. jojo29:

    Godless define busier
    i play gt5, bf3, tekken, uc3 and dc online…not once have i not been able ro find a game….

  109. phranctoast:

    I found that article to be kinda stupid, but hey..it’s just one persons opinion after all.

    I find that game prices are reasonable, and they also tend to drop at a reasonable rate as well. You can also get some great deals if you pay attention to prices.

    He used the Holiday games to make a point, but it was a rather poor point. One has to pick and choose, and yes, it does indeed suck. I also don’t have AC:R. or several other games that I would really like, and instead have cheaper games that I got for bargain prices.
    Sometimes you have to make those tough choices.

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