Microsoft responds to PS4 announcement, Sony exec explains why no console was shown

February 21, 2013

Microsoft responds to PS4 announcement, Sony exec explains why no console was shownOne aspect of Sony’s PS4 press conference that left many puzzled was the fact that the company did not show the form factor of the console. Microsoft took the opportunity to take a jab at the company over this fact.

Sony blew the lid on the hardware specs of the PS4, even detailing the Blu-ray drive, CPU and GPU components in a separate press release after the event. However, the company did now show what the PS4 will look like, but only provided a glimpse of the stereo Move camera and the new Dualshock 4 controller.

As Gamezone reported, Microsoft’s Major Nelson apparently wasn’t all that impressed with Sony’s showing as he tweeted a message, keeping it classy Microsoft-style. It looks like some folks fired back at Major Nelson asking where the Xbox 720 announcement was.

majornelson

Kotaku asked Shuhei Yoshida, president of Sony Worldwide Studios about the the lack of PS4 hardware at the event. Yoshida jokingly responded with a question of his own, “Why do you care?”

Personally, I really don’t care as much as to what the PS4 will look like than finding out what’s under the hood and the games that will be available during launch. On the flip side I can definitely see the excitement that comes with how cool the hardware will look like.

Yoshida also revealed that it was discussed internally as to what should be shown and talked about and that was the decision that was made.

As far as the DualShock 4 is concerned we wanted to do the live demo. And we were like, yeah, we have to show the controller, because it’s awkward not to show the controller when someone is doing a demo. And also the feature that the DualShock 4 has, the share button, is a very key idea behind the design of the PS4..

Blizzard is already set to show off Diablo III running off the PS3 at PAX next month and Sony apparently has some big plans at E3. I think this is probably the best approach as Sony will have to still go up against Microsoft’s Xbox 720 announcement, and keeping a few cards close to the chest will probably keep the media circus going up to E3.  

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113 Responses to “Microsoft responds to PS4 announcement, Sony exec explains why no console was shown”

  1. dans:

    Maybe they just wanted to keep something major to reveal for E3?

  2. The Future of Sega:

    No PS4 console specs???=COWARDS!!!

  3. FahKinSuPah:

    It cracks me up that people are saying they don’t care what the PS4 looks like…

    These are probably the very same people that said the new version of the PS3 looks like crap lmao.

    I’m sorry but I have to point out facts here. Looks do matter. How many people here on Blorge alone said they would not get the new slim PS3 cause of how it looked?

  4. FahKinSuPah:

    Also I forgot to mention that its probably less about what the PS4 will look like, but the fact that it was technically a “no-show”. If there is no model to show Sony might just be pushing it.

  5. ncaissie:

    Where the hell is Ivan? He is surprisingly missing. LOL

    I care what it looks like but I’m more curious than anything.

  6. ncaissie:

    @Fak
    I think the new PS3 does look like shit.

  7. ncaissie:

    It’s pretty damn obvious they haven’t finalized the design yet on the PS4.

  8. FahKinSuPah:

    @ncaissie

    I think it looks fine, and I actually like the sliding door. If someone came up to me and said they wanted to trade my phat PS3 for that slim I would do it.

  9. CON:

    The whole thing was very strange. Looks like we’re just going to have to wait for e3 afterall

  10. greenLanternfan:

    It looks like developers such as GG, and others weren’t aware of the insane RAM boost. It’s possible they were developing Killzone: SF (which the graphics alone looks very incredible for a launch title) with only 4 GB of RAM in mind, which is less than half of the PS4′s power capabilities.

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-spec-analysis-playstation-4

    Sony is going all out this year.

  11. oldschool1987:

    Can’t wait for the Xbox U with Kinect implemented into every game lmao.

  12. dans:

    “Can’t wait for the Xbox U with Kinect implemented into every game lmao.”

    You’re calling out CON for trolling the PS4 in the other thread. Don’t stoop to his level of pettiness.

  13. oldschool1987:

    Honestly Dans I was just trying to do what they’ve been doing for the last 24 hours, made me laugh writing it I must admit lol.

  14. Roca.:

    Here’s what a former Xbox engineer said about Microsoft

    “My gripe, my head-smack, is not that the broader content/entertainment business isn’t where you want to go with a living-room-connected device. It absolutely is. Indeed, this was the point of xBox, that was why it was the Trojan horse for the living room, where we could land and be welcomed by millions of console customers with more hardware and better software and network connectivity than the non-console devices (webtv, cable set-tob-boxes) we had been pursuing. No, more and better content was always the point and the plan. My gripe is that, as usual, Microsoft has jumped its own shark and is out stomping through the weeds planning and talking about far-flung future strategies in interactive television and original programming partnerships with big dying media companies when their core product, their home town is on fire, their soldiers, their developers, are tired and deserting, and their supply-lines are broken.”

    Idk why the Xbots refuse to admit Microsoft has abandoned them (core users)

  15. Godless:

    @Roca
    “when their core product, their home town is on fire, their soldiers, their developers, are tired and deserting, and their supply-lines are broken.””

    WTF. . .Is this statement directed toward MS itself, or the “dying media companies” who ever they may be?

    Roca, the xbox has achieved what it was indented to.
    The whole last half of you post sounds like utter shite.
    The 360 is still selling well 7 years after launch, while up against some very strong competition.

    The games side for many is arguable better than the PS3 if you happen to prefer the 3rd party titles, or just don’t like many of the Sony exclusives and it’s still somewhat fragmented online experience.

    MS is entering next Gen in a better position than it ever has. You trying to convince yourself that MS is somehow dying on it’s feet is laughable.

    Lets just wait and see what MS has to offer before getting overly concerned that they’re about to roll over and die.

    Right now, I’d be much more concerned about Sony abilities to get the PS4 out the door and have enough financial muscle to make it succeed.

    Sony only recently increased the ram in the PS4 following leaked spec on the 720. I wouldn’t be surprised to see MS do something to try and trump the Sony specs.

    Full BC will be a huge factor for many gamers, and probably critical for MS in retaining current 360 gamers.
    So far Sony is looking promising. It will be interesting to see what MS can do.

    It’s all going to come down to Launch line up and cost. If MS are smart they will give a years free Live with the new machine, just to rope people in to the full experience :)

  16. Godless:

    ^ LOL. . reading back, I’m trying to cover too many points in one post, while tryng to keep it as short as possible.

    Basically, I don’t think there’s anything to worry about regarding MS and their new console.

  17. phranctoast:

    That quote was from the creator of the original XBOX btw.

    It’s his frustration that MS seems less concerned about gaming these days.

    http://ilikecode.wordpress.com/2013/02/12/stupid-stupid-xbox/

  18. Andrew_DS:

    I hope the new playstation eye is not a nod towards the styling of the ps4. That looks dated to the point of almost being retro chic.

  19. CON:

    As far as next gen is concerned I’m well and truly on the fence until I see both consoles and their specs, games etc but Sony seem to love to wind up their audience. Last time it was the “get a second job” line.

    “Why do you care?”

    Because I’d like to know if it’s worth buying!

  20. CON:

    Has anyone else been reading the massive amount of abuse sony fanboys have been directing towards sony on twitter?

    @Roca

    Time for you to make them toe the party line ;p

  21. FahKinSuPah:

    “Has anyone else been reading the massive amount of abuse sony fanboys have been directing towards sony on twitter? ”

    They might be talking shit now but we all know that soon enough they will all be putting Sony’s cock in their mouths and start sucking all over again.

    After all that’s what fanboys do.

  22. phranctoast:

    “Because I’d like to know if it’s worth buying!”

    How is it’s aesthetics determine it’s worth in purchasing?

    I much rather have specs rather than know what the console looks like. Honestly…. Who cares?. It’s a black box that will sit under your TV…

    Would you rather know what it looks like without the specs?

    Nintendo did neither. Wii U was announced without anyone knowing what anything looked like or the price or the specs. It wasn’t until it finally released where Digital Foundry opened it up an determined that the Tech in there wasn’t next gen at all.

    Some stuff can wait for the other three or four conferences this year. Frankly..I’m surprised we saw so many games. I didn’t expect that.

    On a downside, I’m not really happy about the lack of BC, and I’d like to know more about how that will be addressed. If I put my PS3 game, will it stream from the cloud? I’m certainly not purchasing PS3 games again.

    Sony recently said PSN games won’t transfer either, and I’d like to know more on that. Will they Stream them too, and will I have to pay for that again? Can’t they see my account and allow those games to stream? All valid questions.

    What’s the point of going digital if everything is locked in that one box and not transferable via your account?

    I found the presentation good, but left with many questions raised.

    Least of them all was what the black box under my TV will look like. Who the fuck cares!

  23. CON:

    “Who the fuck cares!”

    Me and many others Phranc, it’s clear to see on social media and in the press. If you weren’t pissed that they held an elaborate ceremony for the ps4 launch without a fucking console then good for you.

  24. CON:

    “It looks like developers such as GG, and others weren’t aware of the insane RAM boost. It’s possible they were developing Killzone: SF (which the graphics alone looks very incredible for a launch title) with only 4 GB of RAM in mind, which is less than half of the PS4?s power capabilities.”

    I wonder if this increase is linked to the reported 720 specs leaked earlier this month that the RAM was 8g and ddr3.

  25. ncaissie:

    My thoughts on the PS4 announcement.

    I was ecstatic over all of it! The controller was awesome and the share button is so cool. There has been many oh shit moments I wish I could share or save.
    The games demoed looks very cool. I can’t wait to see what the move built in can do. I never play move because the way they built it was very limited.
    Oh, and DIABLO 3 ON THE PS3!!!!! I love it!
    They probably haven’t finalized the look of the hardware yet. Every time they announce a consol it is always over specified compared to what actually comes out.
    So it could come out with 4-6GB ram. Launch date would be nice. I was hoping for this year but it doesn’t look like that will happen.

    $400 would be an ok price. I paid $450 for my first PS3 with no games. I’m currently playing Little Big Planet on the Vita. It’s much better as a game on the go.

  26. phranctoast:

    Seriously… It’s without a doubt the least important aspect of the console as a whole.

    You also didn’t explain as to why you care how it looks. Why it matters at all or determines it’s “worth”

    I chalk it up to the usual Xbot needed something to complain about after the spec announcement wiped it’s ass with the Nextboxes rumored specs.

  27. CON:

    Chalk away phranc but don’t try and tell me sony fanboys aren’t angry also, we live in an age of social media, it’s clear to be seen.

    Don’t put me in the xbot camp on this either, I would have given MS just as much stick if they’d done the same. Like many others I genuinely wanted to see it.

    I’m pretty sure both console shapes of the original 360 and ps3 have been criticised in the past on this very website.

  28. phranctoast:

    “I wonder if this increase is linked to the reported 720 specs leaked earlier this month that the RAM was 8g and ddr3.
    ncaissie:”

    Related post if you’re interested.

    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=514962

  29. phranctoast:

    Fair enough. Just find it trivial to waste time being upset over. Especially when there are more things to complain about that do matter, like BC.

    “I’m pretty sure both console shapes of the original 360 and ps3 have been criticised in the past on this very website.”

    I’m sure of it. From the George Foreman grill to the Maxi-pad without wings…..

  30. Godless:

    Phranc

    Looks do matter a bit.

    I’d be gutted it it looked like the super slim. Honestly it would bother me. I would rather it was retro chunky and square PS2 style, than that awful, curved, tacky as hell, slide lid bread bin of a balls up they produced last time.

    The first slim was nice, something similar would be good, maybe ditch the curve top though

  31. phranctoast:

    I’m speculating that they may not have settled on a final physical build for it yet, but wanted to create awareness and hype by announcing some specs, features, and games prior to a large scale tech show where they’ll have to share the stage with everyone else.

    I’m glad they took this approach, as now that’s out of the way, the concentration can be more on the games at these other shows.

  32. ncaissie:

    “Has anyone else been reading the massive amount of abuse sony fanboys have been directing towards sony on twitter? ”

    LMFAO how can you prove these are Sony fans and not a bunch of xbitches causing shit like you clowns in this place?

  33. ncaissie:

    “I wonder if this increase is linked to the reported 720 specs leaked earlier this month that the RAM was 8g and ddr3.
    ncaissie:”

    I didn’t say this.
    I wonder though did Sony ever say it was 2 or 4? Or was that just a rumor?

  34. CON:

    “LMFAO how can you prove these are Sony fans and not a bunch of xbitches causing shit like you clowns in this place?”

    Just have to look at the account, simple. If it’s brand new it’s likely fake but accounts with 5k+ tweets would be pretty genuine to me.

  35. ncaissie:

    Or they are trolls like you who go there every day.

  36. ncaissie:

    I know you are a closet pbot right?

  37. CON:

    Sigh

    Whatever, everything is happy in the sony camp.

  38. ncaissie:

    I’m happy. I will be happier if the 4 was out now but what can you do?

  39. oldschool1987:

    But no one is happy in the Xbot camp. I think the PS4 has them worried.

  40. ncaissie:

    LOL

  41. phranctoast:

    Major nelson sounds butthurt.

  42. FahKinSuPah:

    “George foreman grill”

    BWUAHAHAHAHAHAH.. I never noticed that till now. HAHAHAHAHAHaaaaaa….

    I’mma be laughing at that one for awhile.

    In other news…

    @ncaissie

    I went to target this morning and bought Diablo 3. Only copy they had. Yay me! I’m cleaning up the partitions I install games on right now and I will be installing it shortly.

  43. FahKinSuPah:

    I just noticed that my D partition might as well be labeled Blizzard…

    WC1, WC2 and expansion, WC3 and exp, WoW and everything up till Pandaria, SC1 and Broodwar, SC2 WoL (Will be including heart of the swarm when it comes out in a few weeks) Diablo 1, D2 and LoD, and now D3….

  44. Roca.:

    @Godless

    I think you’re confused, read the Original Xbox creator’s statement again…then come at me with a better response.

    Your fanboy shades are blinding you…

  45. Roca.:

    Looks doesn’t matter when you know the specs, what the games will look like and what it actually does.

    Sony already said that the final PS4 hardware design is not complete.

  46. CarlB:

    “Right now, I’d be much more concerned about Sony abilities to get the PS4 out the door and have enough financial muscle to make it succeed.”

    I don’t think they’ll have a problem getting it out the door at this point, and it’s bound to have more success than the Vita has had so far. However, that’s not saying much. It may also be likely PS4 will have less success than PS3 had sales wise considering the competing devices/services out in force now that were nascent at the beginning of this gen.

    720 will face the same problems in comparison to 360 (let alone not having a year lead this time, and the reputation of the RRoD fiasco), but at the same time, they can afford to take much more of a loss up front in order to gain market share, which leads to your other point… which is a good one, considering:

    “Sony is often taken as a poster child for Japan’s stagnation.
    Over the last 15 years, the firm has shown essentially no revenue growth and its profits have been wiped out by its losses.
    One must be careful not to overstate gaming’s ability to turn that around. Its Computer Entertainment division accounts for 11% of Sony’s sales, while 56% of the firm’s profits – disregarding the parts that make losses – come from selling life insurance, consumer loans and financial products in Japan.”
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21479858

    I think if Sony did go under, they would at least be able to survive this gen, which means they could make PS4 a very worthwhile console in the time they have, even with the drastically reduced resources they have.

    I’ll say it again, Kaz has done a phenomenal job reducing their net losses over the past year, but he’ll need to keep that pace and not rely on the sale of real estate assets in order to make a net gain in the future. Even with his efforts, however, Sony still realized a net loss last quarter when they were forecasting a net gain. Even the est. $230M net gain they forecast for this fiscal year ending in March has come at the sacrifice of their assets, not by the strength of their product/service line alone. And of course, $230M is a drop in the bucket compared to the ~$80B (~80% of their market cap value) they’ve lost over the last decade or so.

    If Sony, worst case scenario, were to implode, the books still clearly show the Playstation brand has been a breadwinner for them, so perhaps some other entity which has been making net gains over the last 15 years instead of net losses would have some incentive to buy the rights to it (Apple, Google, or *gasp* Microsoft).

    Before that would happen, another option would be to admit defeat and close/sell off divisions which have been contributing to their net losses for years now, which Kaz seems more than willing to do.

    In any case, I guess the whole “we won’t announce specs first” went out the window, for some reason or another.

    If “they may not have settled on a final physical build for it yet” then this would reflect some importance as to that matter. I don’t care how it looks per se, but I think more important is that if you have a product you show it, unless perhaps it really isn’t finished yet and or you are really not confident about what you have to show at E3, in which case you might want to bolster that and build excitement for a reveal at that point.

    It’s a very real possibility they are still working out the kinks with things such as cooling, which could definitely affect the appearance of the case, and is very “important” as to the functionality of the device.

    Either way, even if I did care about what it may look like, I am glad they officially announced their specs to dispel a majority of the rumor mongering, which was getting rather old.

  47. CarlB:

    “Ultimately Gaikai might become Sony’s most important game platform.”

  48. oldschool1987:

    http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2013/02/22/mass-effect-3-and-dead-or-alive-5-land-on-playstation-plus/

    Meanwhile on Gold…

  49. phranctoast:

    crickets…..

  50. oldschool1987:

    Followed by tumbleweed and CoD kiddies…

  51. Roca.:

    whoever said Killzone Shadowfall looks like a PS3 must be crazy. Watch Dogs doesnt look this good.

    http://youtu.be/rGlu3e9kdks

  52. CarlB:

    If PS+ proves (and I think it can, if it already hasn’t) that it can sell more DLC (like Mass Effect and DoA5 has) than a publisher normally would through routine sales then it could definitely be a good thing for all parties concerned. The only potential downside I could see is a possible further devolution of main game content if the model takes off (saturates the user base) across the big three’s devices.

  53. phranctoast:

    “I don’t think they’ll have a problem getting it out the door at this point, and it’s bound to have more success than the Vita has had so far. However, that’s not saying much. It may also be likely PS4 will have less success than PS3 had sales wise considering the competing devices/services out in force now that were nascent at the beginning of this gen”

    I think those competing devices/services you’re speaking about are hurting the Vita, but I can’t see them hurting the PS4 as much. Of course this is taken into consideration that those competing devices you mentioned are phones, and tablets (not sure what services you mean though..)

    Price was a big factor in hurting early PS3 sales. Hopefully that won’t be a factor this time around, as the parts are fairly generic and don’t require R+D, or their own factories to manufacture. This is also going on the rumor that the PS4 will cost $429, and $529 at launch.

    A case can be made that casuals will stick to the phones and tablets that they already have in order game instead of getting a console late in the consoles left. The PS3 has yet to hit that casual friendly price point to truly gauge that.
    However, a case can be made that those people never were truly gamers, and the phone and tablets will be the gateway product that introduces them while they eventually seek bigger and better experiences only found on consoles/PC’s.

    One thing we do know though, is with BC left out on the PS4, the casuals will have more of a reason to continue to purchase the PS3 when it does hit that sweet spot in price.

    I personally, believe the PS3 will drop in price by E3. I didn’t think it would happen prior to March 31st for obvious reasons. Maybe Sony should offer a subsidized package like MS did at a low entry point to drive up sales. In a way they did that already on a limited basis through their stares with the Sony Style Credit card taking off $50-$100 off your first purchase…

    So to wind this up, I thing the devices you mentioned serve a different market altogether, and even can compliment each other. However, future devices such as Ouya, and The Steambox can very well have some impact on the console market, as they are not portable and fight for the same “living room space”.

    “Either way, even if I did care about what it may look like, I am glad they officially announced their specs to dispel a majority of the rumor mongering, which was getting rather old.”

    Now the same rumor mongering can concentrate on price ;)

    I think by E3 will see the system and have a price announced.

  54. ncaissie:

    I hope ME3 is us and Canada!
    Frigin sweet!

    @Fak you are going to enjoy D3.

  55. oldschool1987:

    Already pre ordered my PS4 from shopto.net. Price as it stands is £399 but that could go up or down.

  56. phranctoast:

    “I hope ME3 is us and Canada!
    Frigin sweet!”

    Sorry. EU only for March as far as I know.
    Sleeping Dogs is getting pulled, so DL if you haven’t yet….

  57. FahKinSuPah:

    @ncaissie

    I’m sure I will. Its almost fully installed. I could play it now if I wanted, but im gonna wait a little bit more. Im watching a movie right now that actually has me pretty interested.

  58. FahKinSuPah:

    @ncaissie

    Whats your battle tag so I can look you up in D3?

  59. ncaissie:

    Ncaissie

  60. FahKinSuPah:

    I tried entering that and i got nothing looks like i need the #0000 numbers after your name

  61. Roca.:

    Free mass effect 3 for psn+ users?

    Meanwhile on XBL…

    “Several Microsoft online services are suffering from problems this evening, with both Xbox Live and the Windows Azure cloud service in the midst of extended outages. According to Microsoft’s status page, Xbox Live users may have issues accessing data and saved games in the cloud. SmartGlass is also affected, along with the Xbox Live Karaoke and ESPN apps. The problem has been ongoing for several hours and appears to be getting worse, with the company recently adding Xbox Live functionality for Halo 4 to the list of affected services”

    And godless somehow thinks xbl is better than psn

    http://mobile.theverge.com/2013/2/22/4019772/xbox-live-and-windows-azure-suffering-from-extended-outages

  62. Kushy:

    “Free mass effect 3 for psn+ users”

    I have a copy of Mass Effect 3 brand new still shrink wrapped I paid $29.99 for! I also have PSN+!!!

    This annoys me!

  63. phranctoast:

    “I have a copy of Mass Effect 3 brand new still shrink wrapped I paid $29.99 for! I also have PSN+!!!”

    Return it for a refund. Derp de Derp ;)

    http://m.joystiq.com/2013/02/22/xbox-live-cloud-services-down/?post=1&icid=joystiq_home_latest_art

    “There may be a few clouds hanging over your Xbox Live experience today. Microsoft reports that users are experiencing troubles accessing cloud saves and other remotely stored information on Windows 7 and Xbox 360. We’ve also received reports of trouble with the Halo 4 servers.

    The (crackpot) theory going around the Joystiq think tank is that Sony’s testing PS4 cloud services and taking up all the bandwidth in the imaginary “cloud.” Xbox Live isn’t working right, because Kaz Hirai is streaming some Cool Boarders 2 to QA.”

    I guess you get what you pay for. Oh. My mistake. Apparently not. Lol.

  64. Kushy:

    “Return it for a refund. Derp de Derp”

    @phranctoast

    I bought it on sale boxing day 2012! I have been getting through other games first! Exchange or refund only good for about three weeks! DERP! :P

  65. phranctoast:

    It’s still wrapped. Bring it to another retailer for store credit. You should get something for it comparable. Do it before this deal goes into effect or the games value will plummet.

  66. Roca.:

    ain’t ME3 free for EU PSN+ members?

  67. ncaissie:

    ncaissie#1247

  68. phranctoast:

    “ain’t ME3 free for EU PSN+ members?”

    Starting in March. That’s why kushy is annoyed he still has it wrapped and I’m suggesting be should return it.

  69. CarlB:

    “I think those competing devices/services you’re speaking about are hurting the Vita, but I can’t see them hurting the PS4 as much.”

    I remember about years ago and since saying as much about phones/tablets hurting dedicated portable game devices and getting a ton of flak for it at the time.
    Now their tech has advanced enough to where they will continue to take away customers that normally wouldn’t have had as much of a choice for games and entertainment in the past.

    “Of course this is taken into consideration that those competing devices you mentioned are phones, and tablets (not sure what services you mean though..)”

    Phones, tablets, boxes such as Roku and Ouya, and even Smart TV’s. Many of these will be able to stream games with higher quality in the future as they are streaming movies now.

    “Price was a big factor in hurting early PS3 sales. Hopefully that won’t be a factor this time around, as the parts are fairly generic and don’t require R+D, or their own factories to manufacture. This is also going on the rumor that the PS4 will cost $429, and $529 at launch.”

    Even if it costs only $299-$399 it will still be a factor for many, as people will consider getting it or the latest tablet which is much more multi-functional for both themselves and their children.

    “However, a case can be made that those people never were truly gamers, and the phone and tablets will be the gateway product that introduces them while they eventually seek bigger and better experiences only found on consoles/PC’s.”

    This is akin to saying the people who played Atari 2600/Odyssey games back in the day were “never truly gamers”. It isn’t true. Gamers are people who use the resources they have available to play games, be it on a smartphone, tablet, pc, or whatever. The mobile games aspect is providing better gaming experiences year after year, and if (or should I say when) people have a high enough bandwidth to stream pc/console games from their tablet or other devices without lag, there will be essentially no difference.

    I get what you are saying about phones/tablets being “gateways” to consoles, and I believe to a degree it is true, but the 86% drop in gaming revenue for PS3 year on year compared to the 24% increase in gaming revenue within the same time period for phones/tablets is telling.

  70. Roca.:

    But Kushy is from Canada, so it’s better to keep the game.

  71. ncaissie:

    @Fak
    I have had friend requests in the past but don’t know how to add people or except them.

  72. FahKinSuPah:

    @ncaissie

    When you start up the game and your in the menu click the social button in the lower right corner. You should be able to accept my request from there.

    My tag is Draconum#1276 and i sent you a request

  73. CarlB:

    “For our big first-party games, we’ve encouraged the studios to make as much use of the BD50 [50-gigabyte Blu-Ray drive] as they possibly can – some of these things run to like 45 gigs,” he says.

    http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/02/23/ps4-sony-sees-a-disc-based-future

  74. greenLanternfan:

    “I wonder if this increase is linked to the reported 720 specs leaked earlier this month that the RAM was 8g and ddr3.”

    It’s probably not. With the new GDDR5 RAM, there wasn’t no reason to increase their ram, since it’s more powerful than the rumored Xbox 720 specs in terms of competition with graphical technology. And also, developers like Crytek wanted next gen RAM to have 8GB anyways years back. Sony probably planned this for a while and kept it hush hush. They just kept it away from developers. And who knows, Sony probably intended to have those specs leaked.

  75. ncaissie:

    @Fak
    I added you but you’re weren’t on at the time.

  76. FahKinSuPah:

    @ncaissie

    Yeah I was last on around 6-7pm Eastern last night. I’m probably going to go on in a few, but my D3 playing might be sporadic. I’m in the middle of a writing project and the last thing I want to do is get too distracted from a game lol

  77. phranctoast:

    “I remember about years ago and since saying as much about phones/tablets hurting dedicated portable game devices and getting a ton of flak for it at the time.”

    And I remember the details of those conversations and it was more about the quality of the games and playability of those devices compared to dedicated portable consoles.

    Does anyone know of anyone that would have bought a console in the past, but now solely relies on a tablet or phone for their gaming?

    “Phones, tablets, boxes such as Roku and Ouya, and even Smart TV’s. Many of these will be able to stream games with higher quality in the future as they are streaming movies now.”

    It’s also possible the market will be so oversaturated with so many ways to play games that the industry as we know it now will crumble and AAA blockbuster games will be a thing of the past. I for one am hoping that’s not the case.

    I could play games through Fios right now if I wanted to. I don’t see it taking away from the console marketshare. Most people have PC’s. Those can be used and that’s still a shrinking market in comparison to consoles.

    I’m going to have to disagree with your speculation on that.

    “Even if it costs only $299-$399 it will still be a factor for many, as people will consider getting it or the latest tablet which is much more multi-functional for both themselves and their children.”

    Or…Gasp…..Get both, which is what we’re seeing right now.

    “This is akin to saying the people who played Atari 2600/Odyssey games back in the day were “never truly gamers”. It isn’t true”

    I don’t understand your analogy.

    Also. You know exactly what I’m talking about so there’s no reason to argue with me here. The people I’m talking about were never in the market to purchase a console in the past or the future, but they may have a phone or tablet.

    “I get what you are saying about phones/tablets being “gateways” to consoles, and I believe to a degree it is true, but the 86% drop in gaming revenue for PS3 year on year compared to the 24% increase in gaming revenue within the same time period for phones/tablets is telling.”

    What I find “telling” is how numbers can be construed to paint such interesting pictures but in the end it’s nothing more than a black and white finger painting.

    PS3 had a price cut last year. Maybe that has something to do with the what.. 1 million more consoles sold… PS2 and PSP are at the end of their life so that’s not helping Sony out as it was the year before.

    There’s so many factors to consider and you’re only looking at a single possible one.

  78. CarlB:

    “And I remember the details of those conversations and it was more about the quality of the games and playability of those devices compared to dedicated portable consoles.”

    As I said back then, the quality of the games and playability of those devices would improve significantly over time.
    They have, and will continue to.

    There is also the conversations predicting smartphone/tablets quickly surpassing dedicated game devices in game revenues, then developers moving to smartphones/tablets over dedicated game devices because of said revenue.
    They have, and will continue to.

    “Does anyone know of anyone that would have bought a console in the past, but now solely relies on a tablet or phone for their gaming?”

    Yes, several fellow Marines who have had consoles in the past started families since, and by the nature of the job, travel regularly, so rely on tablets or phones more; and chose to get a phone and or tablet over a Vita/3DS/home console because it is much more useful as a single device.

    “It’s also possible the market will be so oversaturated with so many ways to play games that the industry as we know it now will crumble and AAA blockbuster games will be a thing of the past.”

    Perhaps the old model of “big three” (or so) receiving royalties, having their own little closed platform fiefdoms, and driving up the cost of games will crumble, but if that happens they will simply be replaced by other open devices on which AAA games will still be streamed/downloaded to (which may also have disc capabilities). The open console is theoretically the “universal console”, but there would still be tiers just as there is with the PC, and still triple A games just as there is with the PC.

    “I could play games through Fios right now if I wanted to. I don’t see it taking away from the console marketshare.”

    Hi speed fiber is still in it’s beginning stages here, but it should advance enough to be sufficient, as it is in Singapore (30.7Mb/sec), South Korea, Japan (mainland – 42.2Mb/s on average), and Hong Kong, as well as several other countries. Smartphones and tablets are taking away console marketshare regardless, and will only continue to as they advance over time.

    “Most people have PC’s. Those can be used and that’s still a shrinking market in comparison to consoles.”

    One of the main reasons the PC market is shrinking is also because of smartphone and tablets. Another difference here is people usually have to carry their phone, but not their laptop. Also, since a tablet is even more portable/convenient than a laptop, people are carrying them around more often. You use the device you’re around the most. For me it’s the console, but I’m retired and don’t have to work any longer so I probably don’t represent the majority.

    Tablets/smartphones: Instant on, always with you, and the ability to hook it up to a larger TV. The only real remaining differences between them and consoles (disregarding disc capabilities) is the control aspect, which is already being adapted to console controllers, and specs, which should advance enough over the next year or so (if they haven’t already on tablets) to match PS3′s performance now, just as Vita came close to doing so last year.

    “Or…Gasp…..Get both, which is what we’re seeing right now.”

    That is happening (as it has with me), however, not as many people are purchasing home consoles as they have in the past, and I think the coming next gen consoles will see a decline in sales generation over generation as well.

    The only reason they have stemmed the decline this gen is because game consoles have expanded their capabilities beyond just games. The degree to which they continue to do this will determine their increasing success or further decline this next gen.

    Beyond just phones and tablets their is the smart TV, which will also increase in capabilities over time for games.

    “I don’t understand your analogy.”

    Probably because you haven’t you haven’t lived through it like I have. I’ve seen what was essentially the start of home consoles. The games back then were even less complex and a supposed “lower quality” experience than what is on phones today, however, “gamers” enjoyed them just as much as they do AAA titles today.

    There was no artificial labels decrying the “casual gamer”, you simply played whenever you had the time. More time to play didn’t make you more “hardcore”, it just meant you had more time to play. This is why I laugh at the people who turn their noses up at the so-called “casual gamer”. It’s a silly term.

    “The people I’m talking about were never in the market to purchase a console in the past or the future, but they may have a phone or tablet.”

    What I’m saying here is that the games on smartphones and tablets are now many more orders of magnitude greater in graphics and gameplay than the consoles of the past. In fact, they are the consoles many children today are growing up with in total absence of a home console.

    There are many factors, and I’m looking at all that are brought up. They all have contributed in their own ways to the decline of home console sales, and they will only further contribute to that decline in the future.

    What once was only the domain of the dedicated games console is now on several devices besides. So the game console is forced to transform itself to act like other devices in order to keep up. The degree to which it can do this to satisfy customers and still make a profit (incentive) for investors will determine it’s success in the future.

    Many of the things I’m speaking of now are still taking shape and won’t become apparent for another 5 years or so, just as the things I was talking about 5 years ago haven’t become apparent until now. I still think we have 1-3 more generations of “home consoles” per se, but sometime within that window, they will have become further integrated into other devices to the point where they are no longer separate devices, unless redundancy is specifically desired for whatever reason.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21540769

  79. CarlB:

    “I think a further version of the Vita could be the last dedicated handheld from Sony, but I suspect Nintendo will continue for a while. They are three to four times as large as Sony in this business and I think they have a much more defensible niche.”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21529178

  80. CarlB:

    Another potential: the controller becoming the console, or at least sharing the processing duties with the display device for streaming/downloaded games.

  81. phranctoast:

    “As I said back then, the quality of the games and playability of those devices would improve significantly over time.
    They have, and will continue to. ”

    The quality in the technology improved. Playability is about the same IMO. Touch screens suck for gaming. Virtual controllers are the worst. The only decent mobile games are the ones that can utilize the control scheme to it’s benefit.

    “There is also the conversations predicting smartphone/tablets quickly surpassing dedicated game devices in game revenues, then developers moving to smartphones/tablets over dedicated game devices because of said revenue.
    They have, and will continue to. ”

    Smaller studios maybe. Most are just expanding to incorporate phone/tablet gaming too.

    “Yes, several fellow Marines”

    I have yet to see it happen. The people I do see it happening to are the ones that were never going to buy a console anyway.

    ” Smartphones and tablets are taking away console marketshare regardless, and will only continue to as they advance over time.”

    You say this as if somehow factual but with no evidence to support it.

    The PS3 sold more consoles in 2012 than 2011.

    “One of the main reasons the PC market is shrinking is also because of smartphone and tablets. Another difference here is people usually have to carry their phone, but not their laptop. Also, since a tablet is even more portable/convenient than a laptop, people are carrying them around more often. You use the device you’re around the most. For me it’s the console, but I’m retired and don’t have to work any longer so I probably don’t represent the majority. ”

    All good points, but you’re forgetting that PC’s were struggling even before smart phones and tablets. If anything, Steam has breathed some life into them recently.

    “Tablets/smartphones: Instant on, always with you, and the ability to hook it up to a larger TV. The only real remaining differences between them and consoles (disregarding disc capabilities) is the control aspect, which is already being adapted to console controllers, and specs, which should advance enough over the next year or so (if they haven’t already on tablets) to match PS3?s performance now, just as Vita came close to doing so last year. ”

    The control aspect is the most important aspect with gaming. I find it unlikely that a peripheral to address that will be widespread enough to make a dent with people that primarily care about gaming.

    “That is happening (as it has with me), however, not as many people are purchasing home consoles as they have in the past, and I think the coming next gen consoles will see a decline in sales generation over generation as well.”

    I think you’re wrong. Like last gen to this gen, I believe we’ll see an increase.

    “Probably because you haven’t you haven’t lived through it like I have. ”

    No. I’m only two years younger than you. It’s probably because it was a poor analogy.
    Whether you can accept it or not, there’s simply people in different markets than others that certain things pertain to them more so than others.

    A person buying a $60 game per month vs someone who’s buying a $.99 game for their train commute. Some of them actually do both too.

    “There are many factors, and I’m looking at all that are brought up. They all have contributed in their own ways to the decline of home console sales, and they will only further contribute to that decline in the future.”

    I guess it’s probably a good time for you to address the increase of PS3′s sold in 2012 from 2011….

  82. CarlB:

    “The only decent mobile games are the ones that can utilize the control scheme to it’s benefit.”

    And that’s exactly part of what I’m talking about.
    Tablets being able to play console/console like games with a physical controller/controls in games that really need those type of controls.

    “Most are just expanding to incorporate phone/tablet gaming too.”

    They follow the money. If they can still make a profit off consoles that’s fine, but it’s fairly obvious the shift, or at the very least divide, in focus they’ve had so far. It’s already started with dedicated handhelds (you didn’t really think all the Vita devs simply shifted to 3DS, did you?), and I believe consoles are next unless they can essentially become tablets themselves, as tablets are already acting more like consoles to a greater degree than consoles are acting like tablets.

    “I have yet to see it happen. The people I do see it happening to are the ones that were never going to buy a console anyway.”

    That’s been known to happen, you don’t have the same frame of reference I do and it is limited so you don’t believe it. You’ve only personally experienced one thing, so disbelieve the other. Give it time, you’ll see.

    I personally don’t make a habit of going around asking people if they ever owned a Atari 2600/Genesis/Nintendo/Gameboy (or any past console) in the past yet now have a tablet/smartphone instead of a dedicated game console (handheld/home), but if that’s your thing, go for it. If you are looking for an indicator, Vita is a good one. Forecast sales from 14M (original) to 7M? Yeah. This is starting with handhelds and will finish with consoles, but it will take time. I’m only guessing about 1-3 gens.

    “The PS3 sold more consoles in 2012 than 2011.”

    They may have sold more consoles because they were lowered in price at certain times in certain areas (as with Black Friday, Cyber Monday, etc.), and or bundled with more desirable products, plus the wow factor of the new slim, but they still didn’t sell more games. A lot of people probably thought it was a good idea as a simple multimedia box (I hear Netflix is pretty popular on it) rather than just a game console.

    However, looking at the actual results from the game aspect during that same period: operating income for Sony’s game division was down 86% year over year, with a 15 per cent lower take this Christmas period than last. Combine that with the point that they are just now not taking a loss on hardware over half a decade after it’s release.

    “All good points, but you’re forgetting that PC’s were struggling even before smart phones and tablets.”

    Thank you, but no, I’m not forgetting. Desktop PC’s were struggling before smartphones and tablets because of laptop PC’s (that whole portable/convenience aspect). For the purposes of this conversation I’m lumping the two together as they are essentially the same platform for games at this time.

    “I find it unlikely that a peripheral to address that will be widespread enough to make a dent with people that primarily care about gaming.”

    Even if a major console manufacturer made it?
    Linear thinking is great to find things “unlikely”, but even now you can see Sony making the shift to mobile gaming with their own tablets and game phones. Once it reaches a tipping point, they will start the shift and make controllers for their tablets as others have already if necessary.

    Let me clarify for you: What if the only PS4 hardware they showed at their
    event (the controller) could also control streaming/dd PS1/PS2/PS3 games from their existing tablets?

    “I think you’re wrong. Like last gen to this gen, I believe we’ll see an increase.”

    As I said, they managed to stem the decline this gen by becoming more like tablets/smartphones/pc’s. Even so, I don’t see PS3 outselling PS2 over the course of it’s lifetime. Do you? It will have a hard enough time outselling PS1. This a decline. Wii is an outlier which I don’t think we’ll see a repeat of, and I certainly don’t think WiiU will surpass it in sales. The original XBox didn’t survive a full generation due to it’s legal snafu, so this gen is the first real frame of reference we have for 360.

    The only reason consoles are doing as well as they are now is because they are no longer only game consoles, but have become more like PC’s, smartphones, and tablets.

    “A person buying a $60 game per month vs someone who’s buying a $.99 game for their train commute. Some of them actually do both too.”

    Yes, I’ve done that as well (minus the train commute). I have no need to buy $60 games any longer, just rent and play them, which can be easily be done with tablets within a generation or so. Just as I don’t really care whether I watch a movie streaming or on disc now I won’t really care whether I play a game streaming or on disc in the future (okay, maybe if it doesn’t have an achievement/trophy system ;) ).

    Now, take the kid whose parents bought him a tablet instead of the game console they would have normally bought him in the past. He’s now growing up in that mobile environment in absence of the console, yet still playing games regularly as well as doing his homework/study/research on it. I’m not saying this is all children, but I’m just seeing it more and more now whereas before the parents would have gotten him a console (when tablets were not an option).

  83. CarlB:

    “What if the only PS4 hardware they showed at their
    event (the controller) could also control streaming/dd PS1/PS2/PS3 games from their existing tablets?”

    Or directly from their existing TV’s… or other manufacturer’s TV’s? I think it’s a very real possibility this coming gen or next considering their investment in Gaikai. If not jumping headlong, I think it’s reasonable to expect them starting to experiment with it as part of PS3/4/PS+/tablets offerings sometime this coming gen.

  84. CaptBirdman:

    “whoever said Killzone Shadowfall looks like a PS3 must be crazy. Watch Dogs doesnt look this good.”

    That would be me.

    Killzone SF looked like it could be done on PS3. Don’t be surprised if it’s on both consoles.

    And why are you comparing it to Watch Dogs? That game isn’t known for its graphics, but its amazing concept and gameplay– something I’m betting Killzone will not.

    Compare Killzone’s trailer to Capcom’s upcoming game. Killzone gets thrashed.

  85. CarlB:

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/09/tech/gaming-gadgets/console-gaming-dead

    The article linked, a few months old, speaks more to each of our points.

  86. Roca.:

    @Birdman

    when Ubisoft showed the first gameplay footage of Watch Dogs everyone had doubt that the demo was running on current gen consoles because of its graphics. Many thought the game was running on a high end PC (and I think Ubisoft confirmed it later on).

    Killzone SF doesn’t look like anything on current gen consoles? name me a few games that look as good as Killzone SF?

    The game itself could’ve been done on PS3 (so I wouldn’t be surpise if it’s also a PS3 game), but not the graphics…not even close.

    “Compare Killzone’s trailer to Capcom’s upcoming game”

    Both of these game’s graphics look way ahead of what can be achieve on PS3.

  87. CaptBirdman:

    @Roca

    “Killzone SF doesn’t look like anything on current gen consoles? name me a few games that look as good as Killzone SF?”

    Crysis 2, Halo 4, Metal Gear Solid 4 (that’s a 5 year old game!), Wipeout, Journey, GT5… I could go on and on. Killzone looked as unspectacular as it could get. Not impressed by the gameplay or graphics.

    The Capcom game blew it the hell away. Killzone 4 may as well be only on PS3 because technologically it didn’t look superior to anything we have now. Don’t know what game you are looking at buddy…

  88. phranctoast:

    http://m.joystiq.com/2013/02/25/killzone-shadow-fall-trailer-analyzed-by-digital-foundry/?post=1&icid=joystiq_home_latest_art

  89. CaptBirdman:

    Watched that DF analysis three days ago (I was curious), and I totally disregard it.

    They are analyzing the live stream– which for someone as…distinguished…as they are is utterly stupid. They maintain that the game plays at a locked 30FPS, but that was the live stream they were analyzing and not the actual game. It is literally impossible for them to even measure the game because they have to physically have it.

    Bad link Phranc.

  90. CaptBirdman:

    “Watched that DF analysis three days ago”

    Meant to say, watched DF’s ‘earlier’.

    Watched another analysis three days ago.

  91. Roca.:

    None of the game you mention come close to look as Good as KZSF

  92. CaptBirdman:

    That’s your opinion.

    We can agree to disagree. But from what I’ve seen, KZ4 could be on PS3, *easily*.

  93. dans:

    Irrespective of the graphics, the gameplay looks pretty vanilla.

  94. Roca.:

    ^ what did you expect from a FPS demo?

    regarding Gameplay, while I can agree that they could have showed more impressive set pieces…the conference was all about the PS4 features and what it can do graphically. E3 will be all about the games.

    Birdman and Dan are criticizing the gameplay of an FPS while you two have praised one of the most generic FPS (SP mode) of this gen (COD). Gameplay wise (not talking about its online mode, I expect COD to continue to be the king next gen) I saw KZSF featuring a great cover system, awesome melee attacks, ability jump at an enemy while landing with a killing blow, ans an assault rifle/sniper hybrid weapon…you can’t find the great features in your average FPS (again, talking about the SP mode)

    Graphically, the game was impressive. Nothing on PS3 come close

  95. greenLanternfan:

    “Crysis 2, Halo 4, Metal Gear Solid 4 (that’s a 5 year old game!), Wipeout, Journey, GT5… I could go on and on. Killzone looked as unspectacular as it could get. Not impressed by the gameplay or graphics.”

    You guys must be out of your damn mind if you think any of these games look just as good or better than Killzone SF. They’re not comparable. The PS3 had the best looking graphics this gen on consoles, but comparing these games on the PS4 you have to be blind. GG and other developers only had 4GB planned on these titles before Sony shocked everyone with the increase of RAM. Not only that a GG developer already stated that most dev kits only used 1.5 GB of graphics.

    This game isn’t even close tapping into the power of the PS4 and yet it still looks better than anything this gen.

    http://n4g.com/news/1180159/rumor-so-killzone-shadow-fall-was-only-using-1-5-gb-of-vram

    http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1712366&postcount=111

  96. greenLanternfan:

    They’re not comparable…

    http://s13.postimage.org/3xhuw5s93/KZ4_Rubble.jpg

    http://s5.beta.photobucket.com/user/nchoudhury/media/Killzone%203%20Direct%20captures/1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=21

    Killzone SF looks like you’re watching CGI footage, and it certainly isn’t:

    http://i.minus.com/iSylqprP2LVet.gif

  97. phranctoast:

    “Watched that DF analysis three days ago (I was curious), and I totally disregard it.

    They are analyzing the live stream– which for someone as…distinguished…as they are is utterly stupid. They maintain that the game plays at a locked 30FPS, but that was the live stream they were analyzing and not the actual game. It is literally impossible for them to even measure the game because they have to physically have it.

    Bad link Phranc.”

    Fair enough, but aren’t you judging it by the same streamed video?

    I was able to tell the differences, but they’re more subtle than previous generations jumps to next gen. It can only be expected from initial games appearing. Games take some time to utilize the potential of the system.

  98. phranctoast:

    “and I believe consoles are next unless they can essentially become tablets themselves, as tablets are already acting more like consoles to a greater degree than consoles are acting like tablets.”

    I hope not as the future you paint is absolutely terrible. Becoming more like a tablet isn’t helping Nintendo, but to be fair, Ninty had an uphill battle to fight with underpowered hardware and lack of games to make you want to purchase it.

    I think we’ll see tablets complimenting the console experience if Sony’s PS4 broadcast and Smartglass was anything to go by, and not running it.

    “They may have sold more consoles because they were lowered in price at certain times in certain areas (as with Black Friday, Cyber Monday, etc.), and or bundled with more desirable products, plus the wow factor of the new slim, but they still didn’t sell more games. A lot of people probably thought it was a good idea as a simple multimedia box (I hear Netflix is pretty popular on it) rather than just a game console.

    However, looking at the actual results from the game aspect during that same period: operating income for Sony’s game division was down 86% year over year, with a 15 per cent lower take this Christmas period than last. Combine that with the point that they are just now not taking a loss on hardware over half a decade after it’s release.”

    PS3 had a price cut in 2011, and not in 2012. As for software, that took a hit from 67M pieces to 61M which you can subtract about 2M from that for PS2 software sales.

    PSP was the big culprit and what you mentioned is year by year which doesn’t take into account that PS3 had big sellers in 2011 compared to 2012 with the release of some big names titles. Notably U3.

    I don’t feel you make a good point that the tablets are taking over consoles with the pictures you present. Especially, when while PS2 and PSP sales went down, PS3 hardware sales went up, and PS3 software hit could be explained with logic rather that the “tablets and phones” are taking over POV you mention.

    “Thank you, but no, I’m not forgetting. Desktop PC’s were struggling before smartphones and tablets because of laptop PC’s (that whole portable/convenience aspect). For the purposes of this conversation I’m lumping the two together as they are essentially the same platform for games at this time. ”

    Lump them together. PC and Laptops gaming was struggling before phone and tablets games.

    I can agree that tablets will inevitably hurt PC’s/laptops, as they serve the same functionality, for the most part.

    What I am saying is, PC gaming has been around longer than phone and tablet gaming, and that wasn’t a factor vs consoles. Games always sold more on the consoles, and the PC’s offered a better comparison, and almost everyone has a PC too.

  99. phranctoast:

    “As I said, they managed to stem the decline this gen by becoming more like tablets/smartphones/pc’s. Even so, I don’t see PS3 outselling PS2 over the course of it’s lifetime. Do you? It will have a hard enough time outselling PS1. This a decline.”

    The PS3 and 360 combined sold more in 6-7 years than the PS2 did in 12. That’s excluding the Wii. That’s an increase.

    Yes, I see the PS3 outselling the PS1. The PS2, not as likely. Of course there’s other factors to consider. Initial price, legitimate competition with MS and Ninty. I guess the next few years should be quite telling as the PS4 won’t have BC allowing more PS3 games and consoles to be sold that way, and the existence of the Wii U with similar specs should keep games being made on it for at least a few more years.

    “The only reason consoles are doing as well as they are now is because they are no longer only game consoles, but have become more like PC’s, smartphones, and tablets.”

    Do you have any evidence to support this claim? PS3 sales increased, software is slightly down for it which could be attributed to the software released or the lack of marketing. You keep having to point to PS2, PSP sales to make this point and both are at the end of their lifetime.

  100. dans:

    “Birdman and Dan are criticizing the gameplay of an FPS while you two have praised one of the most generic FPS (SP mode) of this gen (COD).”

    Hahaha! Please find me a quote where I praise the SP mode of CoD.

    I have DEFENDED CoD from the annual abuse from you guys that call it a carbon copy of the previous years game. That is far from praise. I’m not a fan of Cod (excluding Gun Game from BlOps), I just refuse to lay down and let it recieve undeserved criticism.

    “Gameplay wise I saw KZSF featuring a great cover system, awesome melee attacks, ability jump at an enemy while landing with a killing blow, ans an assault rifle/sniper hybrid weapon…you can’t find the great features in your average FPS (again, talking about the SP mode)”

    Wow, revolutionary.

  101. CarlB:

    “I hope not as the future you paint is absolutely terrible.”

    I don’t think you understand what I’m saying. What I mean by consoles becoming more like tablets over the next decade or so is taking into account a few factors. One of which is the computing capability within our smartphones used to require the space of a large office building, now it takes up no more than a deck of cards. The only difference I’m talking about when speaking of consoles becoming more like tablets is they retain all of their present gaming abilities, but have added all the other functions tablets have, as consoles have already started to, and becoming more portable. Not so horrible, eh?

    “Becoming more like a tablet isn’t helping Nintendo, but to be fair, Ninty had an uphill battle to fight with underpowered hardware and lack of games to make you want to purchase it.”

    This is only because the tech has not advanced enough yet to make it practical. Remember the first tablets/smartphones? No one wanted them either. Besides, WiiU doesn’t even come close to the industry leading tablets.

    “I think we’ll see tablets complimenting the console experience if Sony’s PS4 broadcast and Smartglass was anything to go by, and not running it.”

    As I said, it begins by experimentation (while the tech advances) and fine tuning until the transition can be made smoothly, rather than jumping in headlong.

    “PS3 had a price cut in 2011, and not in 2012. As for software, that took a hit from 67M pieces to 61M which you can subtract about 2M from that for PS2 software sales.”

    PS3 also increased it’s hard drive capabilities and bundles for the same price in 2012. And as I said, there were major price drops at certain periods in certain regions during 2012. Software is still a loss year over year, and software is the prime factor console manufacturers, developers, and publishers use to determine profitability.

    “PSP was the big culprit and what you mentioned is year by year which doesn’t take into account that PS3 had big sellers in 2011 compared to 2012 with the release of some big names titles. Notably U3.”

    If PSP was such a big culprit it would have made up for the loss in Vita’s sales forecast. It didn’t even come close, even when combined with Vita’s sales. As far as software, what you are saying is that the Uncharted franchise is responsible for 15% of PS3′s total yearly software sales. At ~5.5M in global sales for UC3 (it sold less than it’s predecessor), I doubt that.

    “I don’t feel you make a good point that the tablets are taking over consoles with the pictures you present. Especially, when while PS2 and PSP sales went down, PS3 hardware sales went up, and PS3 software hit could be explained with logic rather that the “tablets and phones” are taking over POV you mention.”

    PS2 and PSP are not tablets, or even smartphones. Vita is closer, but still has a long way to go. PS3 hardware sales went up while software sales went down because more people are buying and playing games on the mobile platform than they are the console platform. I don’t think using a 5.5M global sales title such a U3 to explain a 15% total drop in software sales for an entire platform while that platform’s hardware sales went up is logic. And even if it was, it’s simply saying Sony can no longer keep up to the degree which they have in the past.

    “PC and Laptops gaming was struggling before phone and tablets games.”

    I thought you were talking about hardware alone, but yes, PC and laptop gaming was taking a hit, because consoles provided a more convenient, cheaper platform to buy and game on. Sounds like a familiar theme, no?

    “I can agree that tablets will inevitably hurt PC’s/laptops, as they serve the same functionality, for the most part.”

    If you can agree to this, while at the same time saying Steam is breathing new life into PC games, then you realize services such as steam will also further invigorate tablets, putting them in an even stronger games revenue position than they are already (which has already surpassed console game revenue).

    “What I am saying is, PC gaming has been around longer than phone and tablet gaming, and that wasn’t a factor vs consoles. Games always sold more on the consoles, and the PC’s offered a better comparison, and almost everyone has a PC too.”

    It wasn’t a factor because those PC’s were big, inconvenient to hook up to TV’s (hell I don’t even like hooking up my brand new ultrabook to the TV), bulky, and user intensive in the past, while consoles were relatively cheap, small, and easy to use. The framework is much different for this and coming generations. The “always used to” type of thinking doesn’t apply here.

    “I see the PS3 outselling the PS1.”

    “Only” around 30M to go. We’ll see.

    “The PS2, not as likely.”

    Evidently.

    “Do you have any evidence to support this claim?”

    Isn’t it obvious? Do you really think PS3 would sell as well if it did not have Netflix, Youtube, Amazon Prime, Internet, Vudu, Crackle, Cinema Now, etc? Considering it is supposedly the most used platform for Netflix, it is kind of hard to deny.

    “You keep having to point to PS2, PSP sales to make this point and both are at the end of their lifetime.”

    Yes, but I’m pointing to 360, Wii, WiiU, 3DS, Vita, PS3, and PS1 sales. You’ve already admitted it is doubtful PS3 will surpass it’s immediate predecessor.

    However, if what you are implying is true, that console gaming is not declining at this time or in the future, but is in fact increasing, then you believe PS4 will surpass PS3, 720 will surpass 360, Vita will surpass PSP, and WiiU will surpass Wii in sales. I doubt even one of these will surpass it’s predecessor in sales.

  102. CarlB:

    Ideally, I think simply being able to hook up your controller wirelessly to any display device you carry it to and playing the games you want at the same quality you’re used to with home consoles is a reasonable expectation. Kind of like what OnLive is doing now except all the kinks should be worked out sometime around the end of next gen.

    http://best2013tablets.com/onlive-universal-controller-ios-and-android-tablet-review/

  103. phranctoast:

    ” As far as software, what you are saying is that the Uncharted franchise is responsible for 15% of PS3?s total yearly software sales. At ~5.5M in global sales for UC3 (it sold less than it’s predecessor), I doubt that.”

    No. I was saying that 2011 had bigger selling titles than 2012, making up the difference. U3 was only one of those.

    Killzone 4, and Infamous 2 also came out. Between those three titles, they covered the difference between software sales from 2011 to 2012, and those are just exclusives. 2011 simply had more marketable and higher selling titles. Maybe Sony was marketing better, maybe the titles they sold were better received. There could be many factors. Pointing the finger at phones and tablets doesn’t appear to be one of them. Though.. Nice try to tie it all into one title even though I clearly said “PS3 had big sellerS in 2011 compared to 2012 with the release of some big named titleS”

    I capitalized the ‘S’ for you so you can see that I wasn’t only singling out U3, but using U3, as ONE of my examples.

    “However, if what you are implying is true, that console gaming is not declining at this time or in the future, but is in fact increasing, then you believe PS4 will surpass PS3, 720 will surpass 360, Vita will surpass PSP, and WiiU will surpass Wii in sales. I doubt even one of these will surpass it’s predecessor in sales.”

    What I’m saying is console gaming has been increasing generation to generation. If you total each generation, it appears to be only increasing.

    Perhaps more and more people are being acclimated into the gaming subculture. Perhaps it’s because of smartphones, and soon to be tablets.

    The abilities and potentials of mobile gaming may increase quicker than consoles can release, but that right there causes an issue. Divided development on those very same devices. Some games will work on top of the line phones, and tablets, and some won’t. Constantly having to upgrade annually to get top of the line games is way too expensive of a prospect, and certainly, not in my budget to do so.

    Even if they go with streaming services to mitigate that, those services aren’t free, as they’ll require high end processors/servers to even push that power to the tablets, and phones. Games will not be the $.99 price point they were that phone/tablet fans have come to expect.

    On top of that, these devices are more suited for mobile, which I believe the majority of their use for games will be utilized.

    Then you have that little issue with battery power and requiring WIFI everywhere to get the streaming service with low latency.

  104. CarlB:

    The bottom line is home/dedicated handheld console software publisherS in general were unable to sell as much console software in 2012 as they did in 2011, while mobile game software revenues increased.

    “Even if they go with streaming services to mitigate that, those services aren’t free, as they’ll require high end processors/servers to even push that power to the tablets, and phones. Games will not be the $.99 price point they were that phone/tablet fans have come to expect.”

    Actually, trial play is free, and the price is nominal compared to spending $50-$60 per brand new title, let alone $500 for a brand new home console which cannot be used while on the go. $9.99/mo for the growing library of over 200 games for OnLive doesn’t seem like such a bad deal (roughly the equivalent of the “$.99″ price point), and games range from $2.99 up beyond the playpack. The Play Pass also lets you play that game across hardware generations, while BC seems to be something consoles are still having a problem with (which streaming should mitigate). And, relatively speaking, this is just the start for streaming games via mobile.

    Also, these aren’t just console games. They are also PC games with mobile touch games as well.

    “Then you have that little issue with battery power”

    “Packing a 42.5-watt-hour lithium-polymer battery, Apple’s latest iPad lasted an unbelievable 12 hours and 22 minutes on the LAPTOP Battery Test, well over the 7 hour and 7 minute average.”

    …seems sufficient for most people’s available game time in a day, even if playing intensive games cut the average time in half.

    “requiring WIFI everywhere to get the streaming service with low latency.”

    4G to get one to their next destination seems to already be working fine, and it should only improve by the end of the next gen to next two gens, which is the time frame I’m talking about the tipping point taking place, not this very moment.

    People seem to look only at the present obstacles, as if they’ll last forever, and say “that could never happen” when in fact it already is in ways they refuse to see, all while failing to realize the devices they hold in their hands (or even wear on their wrists) today were the supercomputers of the past.

  105. phranctoast:

    Oh.. I get it. So when it’s hardware increases making your point look less than adequate, there’s excuses for it to take the focus away from your point that smartphones/tablets are hurting sales of consoles, but when it’s Software, where several key factors can be blamed that aren’t the smartphones/tablets excuse, that’s insufficient….?

    Sorry buddy. You can’t have it both ways.

    The bottom line is, there’s still no evidence that the increase in smartphone/tablet game purchases in anyway take away from console purchases. You act like there’s some limited market, and with one doing well…it has to come from somewhere. Or people can’t be buying, and utilizing both…Have you ever given thought that the market is just expanding?

    On Onlive:
    “It sounds like they got ahead of themselves, buying stuff with money they didn’t have, purchasing too many servers for customers they didn’t have. They thought they could be the equivalent of Netflix for gaming in a couple of years while forgetting it takes at least five or more to get established in an industry for those kind of numbers.

    Either they didn’t have a proper business plan or they strayed from it greatly through mismanagement. ”

    “…seems sufficient for most people’s available game time in a day, even if playing intensive games cut the average time in half. ”

    Playing an hour long game (local) or even Netflix (streaming) on my iPhone 4S but the battery from full to 15%.

    “People seem to look only at the present obstacles, as if they’ll last forever, and say “that could never happen” when in fact it already is in ways they refuse to see, all while failing to realize the devices they hold in their hands (or even wear on their wrists) today were the supercomputers of the past.”

    Actually.. That’s not the case at all. I just don’t see a world where the people that want better gaming experience will flock to their phones or tablets for that. Maybe there will no longer be TV’s too in a generation or two. Maybe you can come up with some silly comparison that, phones and laptops are decreasing sale of TV’s.

    What it comes down to is, the market is getting larger. People that wouldn’t ordinarily purchase consoles may play a games on their phone or tablet, as it has the options even if it wasn’t their primary reason for purchase it.

    There’s plenty of ways people kill time. Not all of them can be detrimental to all others in a comparative way.
    Maybe when a great book or movie comes out one month, and more people are spending time with that, the loss of people gaming or watching Netflix in that month increases, and it doesn’t necessarily means the sky is falling in another subcategory of time killing.

  106. CarlB:

    “On Onlive”

    http://www.onlive.com/

    “Playing an hour long game (local) or even Netflix (streaming) on my iPhone 4S but the battery from full to 15%.”

    You’re talking about a phone that’s almost a year and a half old. I’m talking about a phone/tablet years in the future.

    “I just don’t see a world where the people that want better gaming experience will flock to their phones or tablets for that.”

    I see a point where graphics are no longer an issue for computer processing in games, while advances in computers continue, and even advanced consoles can take the form of a tablet.

    Console quality games don’t have to go away just because a box (console) merges it’s form factor with something that is much more useful and versatile (tablet) over time as technology advances. The sky isn’t falling, the weather and landscape simply changes with time.

  107. Roca.:

    “You’re talking about a phone that’s almost a year and a half old. I’m talking about a phone/tablet years in the future”

    how many years from now?

  108. CaptBirdman:

    @Roca

    “Birdman and Dan are criticizing the gameplay of an FPS while you two have praised one of the most generic FPS (SP mode) of this gen (COD).”

    Lol… this coming from someone who religiously praises Killzone. Killzone’s only claim to fame is that it is pretty. Killzone’s gunplay is pedestrian AT BEST and it never garners an audience past its first few weeks.

    For example: when was the last time you played online? Exactly.

    “I saw KZSF featuring a great cover system, awesome melee attacks, ability jump at an enemy while landing with a killing blow, ans an assault rifle/sniper hybrid weapon…you can’t find the great features in your average FPS (again, talking about the SP mode)”

    Sounds like every shooter since 2001…That is pedestrian. Anyway, I still have KZ2 and that EXACT cover system is in that game… So…?

    “Graphically, the game was impressive. Nothing on PS3 come close”

    From what I’ve seen of the Last of Us…I’d have to disagree. KZ4 looks boring and generic. Guerrilla should try some other genre because fps ain’t it for them. I’d like to see their take on a platformer or TPS.

    Now about COD… the main point of the game is that *it is fun*.

    This is why it has the audience it does, not because it is or isn’t generic. The main reason other games fail to have the sort of movement Call of Duty does is that they aren’t fun.

    Killzone has never had that fun factor. My copy gathers enough dust to make a deck of cards. And it’s not because it’s old, but because it’s not fun.

  109. CarlB:

    “how many years from now?”

    “I still think we have 1-3 more generations of “home consoles” per se, but sometime within that window, they will have become further integrated into other devices to the point where they are no longer separate devices, unless redundancy is specifically desired for whatever reason.”

    2020-2035 for the ideal performance for tablets at the very least, being extremely conservative. Although I think we are already seeing handheld game consoles selling less than their predecessors due to phones/tablets taking over that segment.

  110. CarlB:

    “For Sony, there will be a certain irony to the fact that so many people are fixating on the appearance of a plastic box after a conference that delivered a good two hours of new games, feature reveals and technological vision. Sony’s messaging at the PlayStation 4 conference was centered firmly on what the new console offers (the PlayStation “ecosystem” in corporate-speak), rather than the piece of hardware…

    “As you said, the same event 5 years ago was all graphs about processing power, whereas yesterday was around the consumer experience. It was experiential in its nature. I think that can only be a good thing.”

    This is a big transition for Sony. “We believe that PlayStation 4 represents a significant shift from thinking of PlayStation as merely a box or a console, to thinking of PlayStation as a leading authority on play,” said Andrew House in the opening minutes of the conference.

    Another huge change is Sony’s ever-decreasing reliance on its own proprietary technology, upon which the company is built. Where the PlayStation 3 was engineering- and hardware led (and massively, ruinously expensive to develop and launch, which was a major factor in Kutaragi’s sidelining from the company in 2007), the PlayStation 4 is “developer led and consumer inspired”

    …Sony’s Mark Cerny summed it up well during the conference itself: “Much less value is found today in exotic technology like blast processing or a supercomputer on a chip. The need to radically customise technology can interfere with the design innovation that’s so central to game creation.”

    …it was a deliberate omission, and a statement of intent. Sony wanted to demonstrate how far it had come since 2006, from a company focused on expensive, loss-leading hardware to a modern company focused on software, on services and – most importantly for people like us – for games.”

    http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/02/27/ps4-why-sony-didnt-show-the-box

  111. oldschool1987:

    Killzone isn’t fun in your opinion, not fact.

    Killzone to me is fun, CoD isn’t fun to me anymore. Couldn’t even finish Boring Ops 2 it was so dull.

    And all those games above are SHIT compared to Half Life and Portal. That’s only my opinion again but I stand by HL and P2 so strongly I’m going to claim it as fact lol.

  112. phranctoast:

    Just finished MW3, and Blops 2 last month.

    My review. SP only.
    MW3:

    I really enjoyed MW3. The graphics were a step up from its predecessor while somehow creating more exciting moments. You feel like you’re whisked from one exciting set piece to another with barely time to catch your breath in between. In a way it’s like playing some of the biggest set pieces (like boss fights) in God of War, followed by another one, and then another one.
    While this experience was great for an initial playthrough, it wasn’t that great for a follow up. Being tethered to an AI partner constantly pushing you forward quicker and quicker started making for some serious shallow gameplay. There were times I felt that I didn’t have to even kill anyone and my AI would do all the work. I experimented with that and it proved true more times than I would like to admit.
    The story….Oh brother. Presentation of story was pretty bad. One thing I notice gets overlooked in the MW series. Story is rather shallow and forgettable. After the game I had to read the wiki, to even recall what happened as IW presents the story in such a way that you don’t care whether you remember it or not. This is a key difference with the MW series and the Blops series, and I prefer much more the Blops method of engaging the audience and getting them involved making in more coherent going through several time lines with several characters than MW can do with one and a few.
    The series is over, I can’t see what more they can possibly do with the MW story line, but I’d be interested to see and hope they follow some of the presentation tactics introduced and used well in the Blops series next time around.
    I started and completed the game on normal in 5 hours and 20 minutes. If SP is the only thing you’re concerned with, it’s a better rental. I didn’t touch on spec ops or MP.

    Blops 2 review:
    SP Only

    Blops is set at a much slower pace than MW3. Everything is at a much slower pace, but the missions are also longer for that and more in depth.
    While some missions are how oldie put it.. a snore fest, a majority are not. I really enjoyed how it went back from the 80′s to 2025 for future missions.
    However the Strike force missions were terrible IMO. They screamed, I want to be a MP level but played in a way that made a frustrating experience in SP. Your squad was next to retarded. Keeping them from not getting killed was the biggest chore. Enemies respawning behind cleared spots was a dumb as fuck concept.
    Custom loadouts and perks in SP missions however were a big win. Challenges in SP missions were a big win. Gave a reason to really go back and finish each level in different ways in order to try and get them all. Making challenges unlock perks was a great idea, and surprised this is the first time I recall seeing it happen this way in a SP game.
    I stayed away from Zombies, and MP.
    The game took me over 10 hours to beat on Normal.

    If I was to buy either one of these games it would be Blops 2.

    Not bad Treyarch… Not bad at all.

  113. CaptBirdman:

    Glad you enjoyed it Frank.

    And no one–NO ONE– enjoyed the strike force missions. They’re utter crap.

    But I applaud the effort at trying something new.

    @Oldschool

    How many people are playing any of the Killzones online at any given time ?

    More than Street Fighter 4? Because I doubt it.

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