Next Xbox 720 to come in two models: pricier always-on and cheaper offline Durango

April 11, 2013

Next Xbox 720 to come in two models: $499 always-on and $399 offline DurangoWith Microsoft speculated to unveil the Xbox 720 Durango near the end of May, more rumors about the mysterious device have popped up just today. Multiple outlets are reporting conflicting rumors, while we have received a tip of our own.

Earlier today The Verge reported that its sources have revealed that the next Xbox will act as a set-top box similarly to Google TV. The device will require an always online connection in order to use its entertainment services similarly to a Comcast or Fios digital box.

Those that owns a Fios or Comcast box will know that the device won’t properly work an online connection. Similarly the next Xbox will also require an always online connection to work. The next Xbox will take an input from a cable box and passing it through to the Xbox via HDMI port. This will allow the Xbox to overlay a UI over the TV content.

Apparently the built in Kinect 2.0 will detect eye movement and pause content when viewers turn their head away. I am not sure how feasible this tech is as everyone watching the TV will have be glued to the screen in fear of annoying the other person.

A source close to a content provider has revealed to Gamer.Blorge that Microsoft is readying two models of the next Xbox console, one at a higher price point ($499?) which has the TV set-top box capability built in and a cheaper model ($399?) which is a standalone Xbox console dedicated to gaming.

The cheaper model apparently will not require an always online connection and is aimed at the global market. However, the set-top box will require an always online connection, comes with a bigger hard drive for DVR like functionality and can also be purchased for $299 with a subscription contract as stated by Paul Thurrott recently. As expected, the set-top box will be North America only, with plans for the UK possibly.

However, information from VG Leaks not only contradicts The Verge’s report but ours as well. According to VG Leaks, its sources have revealed that the set-top box is in fact a redesigned Xbox 360 mini, which will retail for around $150 and can be attached to the next Xbox in order to play legacy 360 games.

VG Leaks states that the redesigned Xbox 360 mini will not have an optical disc drive and must be connected to the Durango to make use of its disc drive to read legacy 360 games. According to VG Leaks, the Durango will not play legacy games standalone and will not require an always online Internet connection.

I am somewhat skeptical of the conflicting report from VG Leaks, as the concept of interconnecting consoles sounds like something out of an unfulfilled fanboy dream from the SEGA days where you could connect a Genesis up to a Sega CD to make it “next gen.” Also, the leaked document mentioning always online requirement was from a Durango devkit and not from an Xbox 360 devkit. 

Until Microsoft officially announces the device, take all of the rumors you read and hear with a grain of salt.

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82 Responses to “Next Xbox 720 to come in two models: pricier always-on and cheaper offline Durango”

  1. Roca.:

    Adam Orth leaves Microsoft following ‘always-on’ console controversy

    http://mobile.theverge.com/2013/4/10/4210870/adam-orth-leaves-microsoft

  2. twilight:

    There are many people who kind of expected this to happen with Adam Orth Roca. Microsoft has not made an official announcement yet but all of the rumors coming out about the next generation Xbox system doesn’t make the next Xbox system sound all that appealing. “Kinnect 2.0 will detect eye movement and pause content when viewers turn their head away.” Really Microsoft?

  3. phranctoast:

    http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/adam-orths-always-on-twitter-gaffe

    The memes are great. It does suck that he lost his job though, even if I found myself laughing at memes joking about that prior to this news coming out.

  4. Roca.:

    Forza and Ryse will launch titles… Wow another year, another forza

    http://mobile.theverge.com/2013/4/11/4212054/next-xbox-launch-titles-ryse-forza

  5. phranctoast:

    “We’re told Ryse is designed to be Microsoft’s new Gears of War / Halo mega launch title. It’s set in the Roman Empire period and uses deep Kinect integration to allow players to slash and kick at enemies. We understand that Ryse will take advantage of the new body tracking improvements in the next Kinect sensor. Ryse is part of four major launch titles for the next-generation Xbox. Sources tell us that a new Forza title with “super life-like” graphics will also be made available at launch, alongside a zombie game and a family game set on an island with Pixar movie-style graphics. We’re told that the family game will utilize Kinect to scan a body and generate a virtual character in the game.

    We understand that these four titles are a small selection of the launch titles for the next-generation Xbox. Third-party support is said to be strong in the first-person-shooter genre. Microsoft is also working on some improvements to Xbox Live, including a switch to currency over the Microsoft Points system. Microsoft is expected to hold a special Xbox event in May, ahead of a full unveiling at E3 in June.”

    “We’re told Ryse is designed to be Microsoft’s new Gears of War / Halo mega launch title.”

    Fail!

    “including a switch to currency over the Microsoft Points system.”

    Innovative!

  6. phranctoast:

    The VG leaks document actually sounds the most realistic since it’s not downright horrible like some of the other rumors are that have been mentioned.

    I’m of the opinion that MS couldn’t be stupid enough to take some of the missteps outlaid in the other rumors. This one at least seems practical.

    If you care to have BC, in the Durango, it will cost you $150. People here have said they’d spend upwards toward that range for the PS4 “dongle” that was rumored to allow BC.

    Sony on the other hand won’t do it natively, and instead rely on a streaming solution, which will still cost you money on a monthly basis.

  7. CarlB:

    Partnering with FiOS, or especially Comcast for at least one of their SKU’s doesn’t seem like a misstep, and it goes a long way towards explaining what “always on” means. It brings both Microsoft and whoever they partner with lots of potential new business.

    Thurrott explained it the opposite way than the article represents here though: the cheaper box is that way because it is subsidized by the cable/fiber company with their contract.

  8. phranctoast:

    “Partnering with FiOS, or especially Comcast for at least one of their SKU’s doesn’t seem like a misstep”

    No it doesn’t and not really one of the ones I’m talking about.

    “Thurrott explained it the opposite way than the article represents here though: the cheaper box is that way because it is subsidized by the cable/fiber company with their contract.”

    Hmmm. I think one of are getting confused as to what this means. Possibly Mike too.

    I was under the impression the cheaper subsidized box ($300) one was the one being subsidized by XBL, as they’re currently doing now with the 360.

  9. CarlB:

    It could work either way (subsidized by Microsoft and or Comcast/Fios), both are equally feasible.
    Much as they have already this gen, they’ll likely have enough SKU’s to cover all their bases.

    Meanwhile, it seems Sony is already anticipating the rise of mobiles over dedicated handhelds, and even home consoles:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=B_Z3QnXWZm8#t=115s

    “Sony has added native support for the PlayStation 3 DualShock 3 controller to its lineup of Android-powered Xperia smartphones. The support means that players can pair their DualShock 3′s with the smartphones to play games and control menus.”
    h**p://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-04-10-sony-adds-dualshock-3-support-to-android-xperia-devices

  10. phranctoast:

    “Meanwhile, it seems Sony is already anticipating the rise of mobiles over dedicated handhelds, and even home consoles:”

    Wow! What you take away from that is incredible. I only saw Sony adding an optional control scheme on their own mobile phones using their own controller.

    Good reach though. I congratulate you for the laugh :D

  11. CarlB:

    “I only saw Sony adding an optional control scheme on their own mobile phones using their own controller.”

    Really? You completely missed it being hooked up to the TV and playing like a home console? You need to check your glasses :D

  12. phranctoast:

    Again. How do you take away from the video, Sony adding optional support to their own dedicated device as them anticipating their rise over consoles?

    If Sony was threatened, they wouldn’t offer the option.

    Sony also plans on smart phones being used in conjunction with the PS4. Can you spin that into something similar too.

  13. CarlB:

    It’s not just the video, but a trend that’s been happening for years now. Add to this that mobile devices will soon match PS3 processing power, and that it should only take about 5 years or so for them to match PS4′s power.

    Consider also that PS3 sold less than PS2, and it’s just as likely PS4 will sell less than PS3. Finally, Vita’s already suffering tremendously from losing ground to smartphones and tablets. In contrast, Xperia, and smartphones/tablets in general, seem like a much more profitable path for the future than Vita.

    PS4 and Vita are going to survive this coming gen, but I think there is a good chance that Sony won’t make a successor to the Vita, or that if they do then it will sell even less than Vita has. Instead of a successor to Vita, they could now very easily make a clip on controller for Xperia and the dualshock instead, and perhaps a more integrated streamlined one later on.

    PS5 has a greater chance of seeing the light of day, but if it does it will probably suffer from even less sales generation over generation as well.

    I think they will continue to develop the mobile store this coming gen to the point where they have a sizable game library available for a variety of mobile devices. Those games, by the end of next gen, should be practically the same quality as they are on PS4. Xperia is just the initial test lab.

  14. phranctoast:

    Consoles just need to continually differentiate themselves from mobile to continue their relevancy.

    One of the biggest differences that I see that keep them going is the fact that you don’t need to constantly update them to get the games best games available. In other words, their lifespan is fairly long. If consoles were like phones in the regard, each time a major release that pushed the boundaries occurred you would need to upgrade. This also fractures the development from that perspective.

    While the PS3 will see fewer sales than the PS2, that doesn’t mean phones and tablets are the factor. PS2 was a monster with mediocre competition. Not all bands can be the Beatles. Not all bands are compared to them either….

    PS4 even stands to sell more than PS3, as it almost looks like it’s going to be back to a two console race again if Nintendo keeps losing third parties.

  15. Roca.:

    NORTH KOREAN MISSILE TEST DELAYED BY WINDOWS 8

    LOL

    http://newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/2013/04/north-korean-missile-test-delayed-by-windows-8.html

  16. phranctoast:

    Damnit. Now I have to actually take back everything bad I’ve ever said about MS…..

    Naaaaahhhhhhh ;)

  17. CarlB:

    “One of the biggest differences that I see that keep them going is the fact that you don’t need to constantly update them to get the games best games available.”

    It’s also what limits their profitability, in that they usually need to be sold at a loss initially, and take years to eventually turn a profit. Mobile devices, on the other hand, are almost immediately profitable. Also, they are able to play all older games out of the box. Sony has yet to establish Gaikai as a solution to that, and once they do, it should also be compatible with mobile devices anyway.

    Consider also that if mobile device processors reach parity with PS4 within 5 years or so as previously forecast. What will be the difference to hooking your smartphone or tablet up to the TV vice a console, and playing with the dualshock anyway? The only real differences are your smartphone or tablet is much more useful everyday and you can carry it with you easily.

  18. phranctoast:

    “It’s also what limits their profitability, in that they usually need to be sold at a loss initially, and take years to eventually turn a profit.”

    With out of the box components and little R+D maybe that can be alleviated.

    “Mobile devices, on the other hand, are almost immediately profitable. ”

    When I have to start playing $90/month for a game console you can officially count me out of gaming.

    “Also, they are able to play all older games out of the box. Sony has yet to establish Gaikai as a solution to that, and once they do, it should also be compatible with mobile devices anyway.”

    Very true issue, but at least a viable solution looks to be in place.

    “Consider also that if mobile device processors reach parity with PS4 within 5 years or so as previously forecast. What will be the difference to hooking your smartphone or tablet up to the TV vice a console, and playing with the dualshock anyway?”

    Probably still just the games being made for it.

    Also one of the biggest positives about consoles vs all these others solutions is the standardization.

    Your ideas could work, but in order for it to be truly successfully a very versatile scalable development tool also needs to be in place.

  19. CarlB:

    …”maybe that can be alleviated.”
    Maybe alleviated, but not eliminated. And this doesn’t seem to be the case with Vita at all. Why not just avoid the initial loss in the first place?

    “When I have to start playing $90/month for a game console you can officially count me out of gaming.”

    I’m already paying $35/mo for internet. Gaming on my tablet doesn’t require I pay anything more at home or in town with wi-fi hotspots. For people who have smartphones, they’re already paying $60-$90/mo anyway. There’s no more added cost to play on a tablet via 3G as there is with Vita via 3G. Vita isn’t even 4G compatible, so that’s one more advantage for smartphones and tablets.

    “at least a viable solution looks to be in place.”
    Maybe. I’ll believe it when I see it.

    “Probably still just the games being made for it.”
    If it has the same control scheme (dualshock) and processing power, they have no reason to not make the same game compatible. Third parties already making the same games compatible with OnLive.

    “Also one of the biggest positives about consoles vs all these others solutions is the standardization.”

    No more standardization than what iOS/Android already has is required. The same is true with OnLive. If mobile reaches parity as forecast and even surpasses processing power of PS4 before the end of it’s lifecycle, then that’s yet another positive for mobile over consoles.

    The dev tools necessary to make the games work across several devices are already in place, being used, and will continue to advance as necessary.

  20. CarlB:

    And if the processor can be used in smartphones and tablets, it can certainly be used in smartTV’s as well.

  21. Roca.:

    @Phranc

    No wonder their missiles keep crashing lol

    “A source close to the North Korean regime reported that Supreme Leader Kim Jong-un is furious about the Windows 8 problems and is considering a number of options, including declaring war on Microsoft”

  22. Barnabe Jones:

    What’s up my peeps?

    Following the biggest announcement of 2013, I come out of retirement to touch base with the Blorge… and no one is talking about it? Tisk Tisk.

    Dark Souls 2 bitches! Now I have a reason to get my PS3 fixed again. :P

  23. Roca.:

    @BJ
    I asked about you few weeks ago cuz you havent been on in 7 months. I thought you died or something lol

    Welcome back!!

  24. Barnabe Jones:

    lol not yet. ;)

    Between being really busy with life stuff, and my PS3 dying again, I haven’t played PS3 in a long time. I did play my Vita… damn, like 4 months ago.

    I’m going to take my PS3 back in to get fixed. It’s still under warranty from the store I got it fixed at(I think).

  25. FahKinSuPah:

    @Roca

    The sad news is I think you are taking that article seriously. :D

  26. Roca.:

    I know the article wasn’t being serious about it…but it was still funny as Windows 8 is not doing very well.

    I dont think Microsoft can do business with N. Korea anyways

    Here are some real news: Goldman says ‘sell’ Microsoft, others downgrade stock

    http://m.cnet.com/news/goldman-says-sell-microsoft-others-downgrade-stock/57579242

  27. Roca.:

    http://mashable.com/2013/04/10/idc-windows-8-slowdown/

  28. CarlB:

    @phranc,

    Here’s a vid for the new version of the gameklip. DualShock’s actually been compatible with Android phones since the usb controller update awhile back. This looks to be a quality solution:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwjBWDhm9xU&feature=youtu.be

  29. CarlB:

    …and Nexus 7:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mGn7IIfIQVE

  30. CaptBirdman:

    Just want to say one thing.

    There will undoubtedly be dedicated consoles for gaming for about at least the next 25 years.

    I CAN see mobile gaming usurping handheld consoles, but never, NEVER displacing a home console.

    Think about it. Do we have E3′s for iPhones/iPhone games?

    Why haven’t handheld consoles taken over home consoles? Because they won’t, ever. Consoles are based on PCs, and no matter how great your phone becomes, it won’t ever be PC level.

  31. CarlB:

    25 years is only 3 console generations going by the length of this one.

    Dedicated handhelds will be the first casualty, probably after this next gen, then consoles as we know them one to three generations from now. They may not be completely annihilated, but sales will have diminished enough to make them only a very, very small part of the market.

    We’re talking ~5yrs from now for tablets to reach PS4 processing power. Handheld, console, and desktop PC sales are already on the decline.

    There’s also going to be a tipping point (right around photorealism) within a generation or three as far as the amount of processing power necessary for 99% of games, if not all of them.

  32. CarlB:

    And the phone doesn’t need to be as powerful as a PC if all it’s doing is streaming games.

  33. CarlB:

    “Do we have E3?s for iPhones/iPhone games?”

    E3′s for a lot of devices and games. iPhone and iPhone games have been previewed there for years, along with Android, Google Play, and OnLive games, which should only have an increasingly larger presence in the years to come.

  34. CaptBirdman:

    “E3?s for a lot of devices and games. iPhone and iPhone games have been previewed there for years, along with Android, Google Play, and OnLive games, which should only have an increasingly larger presence in the years to come.”

    Read my question again.

    Do we have E3s for iPhones/iPhone games?

    Saying iPhone games have previewed for E3 is like saying booth babes have been previewed ( ;) ) there. Being there is irrelevant.

    Again, DO WE HAVE E3 FOR iPHONES/iPHONE GAMES?

    The answer is simply no. We go to E3 (I’ve been to a few) to learn about consoles (in a new gen), console games, and PC games. Everything else, and I mean EVERYTHING else is filler.

    Apple has its own keynote AT E3? Let me know when they do.

  35. CarlB:

    Even being there when they were not before is completely relevant. Of course phone games aren’t going to eliminate handhelds immediately, just like they didn’t surpass all console game sales revenues immediately like I predicted they would years ago.

    Why would they even need a keynote when they’ve already dominated game revenues for the entire industry?

  36. CarlB:

    And we have E3 for games.
    We no longer need home consoles or desktop pc’s to play them, so it’s not going to matter in the future when they slowly fade away.
    People are going to be like, “Remember when they used to have those big clunky boxes?”
    “Yup. Glad we don’t have to deal with that BS any more.”

  37. CarlB:

    http://www.cnet.com/laptops/razer-edge-pro-core/4505-3121_7-35561052.html

  38. oldschool1987:

    http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2013/04/13/xbox-live-down-microsoft-doing-everything-they-can/

  39. CaptBirdman:

    ” …just like they didn’t surpass all console game sales revenues immediately like I predicted they would years ago.”

    Not looking to argue, or even disagree, but you’re talking about something that is completely saturated vs something completely concentrated.

    Not really a fair comparison. A game is not a game. Think about that for a tick…

    Must admit, I laughed at the console being BS comment. But as a bloke who’s been arguing that technology becomes simpler and/or smaller (sometimes bigger, in the case of hard drive space), is it out of your realm of possibility that consoles become…sleeker? You comment on them being clunky boxes, but we haven’t even seen the PS4 yet…

    Could be sleek as hell. Even the 720/Durango.

    And 2013′s E3 is all about consoles. Even games will be the after thought.

  40. phranctoast:

    “Not looking to argue, or even disagree, but you’re talking about something that is completely saturated vs something completely concentrated.”

    Then you’re responding to the wrong person.

    Last post Carl can argue that TV’s are also going away by showing tablet sales and streaming services revenue.

    Anyway. The gaming tablet looks pretty cool. I can’t see it being anything but a niche product but cool none the less.

  41. CarlB:

    “Not really a fair comparison. A game is not a game.”

    You misunderstand. What I’m saying is, if what you think of as console games today can already be played with a smartphone, tablet, and or TV without the need for a console, then what need is there for “box” type separate consoles in the future? They will just continue to be integrated into devices we already use more often.

    Of course consoles will be “sleeker” than they were last gen, I’m not saying they are going to go away immediately. I’m saying they will fade away over 1-3 generations from now and become “sleeker” by being integrated entirely into tablets, phones, and TV’s.

    Remember that what once took an office building and about $6M of today’s dollars to fit a certain amount of processing power (ENIAC) now fits into an amount of space much less than the size of your wrist for less than $50.

    Just as the need for the office building and excess expense to contain that power went away, the need for the “box” type console/pc for gaming and it’s separate cost, by the average user, and even the hardcore gamer, will go away.

    And the only reason 2013′s E3 is “all about consoles” is because that is what the collective herd of gamers have been conditioned to think about and that is where the technology stands today, not one to three generations from now.

    “Last post Carl can argue that TV’s are also going away by showing tablet sales and streaming services revenue.”

    That’s an interesting point, but what do you define as “TV”? A medium that is used for transmitting images? One’s eyes themselves could be used for that, hell, any surface could be used for that, so I don’t entirely disagree that “TV’s” as we know them will fade away as well, they will just transform greatly.

    However, what has somewhat stanched the decline of consoles is they have become more like smartphones and tablets in function. The same will be true for “TV’s”.

    Display terminals future is secure, no matter what size or shape they take.

  42. CarlB:

    http://dashburst.com/humor/technology-in-1993-vs-2013/

  43. phranctoast:

    “However, what has somewhat stanched the decline of consoles is they have become more like smartphones and tablets in function. ”

    Can you please explain this?

  44. CarlB:

    Streaming video, streaming music, internet, apps, etc.

  45. phranctoast:

    “Streaming video, streaming music, internet, apps, etc.”

    For what we’re talking about here I’m going to assume we’re at the very least talking about iPhone and iPad as they’re the front runners in both smart phones and tablets in making them popular.

    Streaming video was on consoles first. Namely Netflix was introduced on the 360 and on the PS3 prior to phones and especially tablets (iPad didn’t come out until 2010, 360/PS3 had NF in 2008-2009 respectively) still waiting on Amazon instant video to arrive on iPhone.
    Streaming music has been available through the PS3 browser since the browser existed back in 2006. The iPhone first gen came out the following year.
    Apps? You’re joking? Same thing as streaming music. Available through browser.

    Consoles, smartphones and tablets have adopted features prominent on PC’s.
    To say consoles sales decline is held back a bit due to them acting like something they were doing prior to the existence of such devices is false. Lol
    Maybe the minis are solely responsible for thwarting consoles sales declines. Lol.

  46. phranctoast:

    “still waiting on Amazon instant video to arrive on iPhone.”

    Just checked and it appears they released the app at the end of January in iPhone, only 9 months after the PS3….

    PS3 also had video chat via PSEye before Face Time existed…..

  47. CarlB:

    Fine. Consoles sales decline was held back a bit due to them acting more like laptops. LOL.

  48. CarlB:

    http://www.motorola.com/us/consumers/Motorola-Lapdock-100/73945,en_US,pd.html
    LOL.

  49. phranctoast:

    “Maybe alleviated, but not eliminated. And this doesn’t seem to be the case with Vita at all. Why not just avoid the initial loss in the first place?”

    Is it even possible? Even smart phones are subsidized by expensive provider plans.

    “There’s no more added cost to play on a tablet via 3G as there is with Vita via 3G. Vita isn’t even 4G compatible, so that’s one more advantage for smartphones and tablets. ”

    That’s a rather crooked way of looking at it. If you have a smart phone you have no choice but to pay the $30 additional for the data plan. You have a choice with the Vita. You’re already considering the cost a necessity as that’s how they provide it, vs something that’s optional, and calling the optional choice out on being a disadvantage.

    “I’m already paying $35/mo for internet. Gaming on my tablet doesn’t require I pay anything more at home or in town with wi-fi hotspots.”

    Neither does gaming on your Vita or console using the same conditions…

    “Maybe. I’ll believe it when I see it.”

    You’re rather quick to accept that game streaming will occur on devices that arguably have worse internet connections vs consoles (WiFi/Card wired vs 3G,4G). I must say…the amount of pessimism you show one side vs the other is astounding.

    “If it has the same control scheme (dualshock) and processing power, they have no reason to not make the same game compatible. Third parties already making the same games compatible with OnLive.”

    Selective hearing during the Sessler and Pachter interview?
    Oh… and look.. Onlive brought up. Take and wait and see attitude with consoles that have a better connection vs phones….

    “No more standardization than what iOS/Android already has is required. The same is true with OnLive. If mobile reaches parity as forecast and even surpasses processing power of PS4 before the end of it’s lifecycle, then that’s yet another positive for mobile over consoles.”

    So mobile is 5 years behind. Gotcha. Even if they’re able to catch up and bandwidth on mobile increases to allow PS4/720 type games on mobile, and new console will be out that surpasses that leaving mobile another 5 years behind in microprocessor and bandwidth to play those games, making consoles presence still prominent.

    Anyway… Like I previously said before. “Consoles just need to continually differentiate themselves from mobile to continue their relevancy.”
    MS looks to do that with the TV interactivity. Sony looks to do that with its featues that allow sharing and viewing others playing games.

    As previously mentioned, consoles are more like PC’s than anything, and PC’s are very versatile with their ability to update.

    And it’s nice to know you won’t have to purchase a console three times in the same span you need to update phones.

  50. CarlB:

    “Even smart phones are subsidized by expensive provider plans.”

    Vita was also. I hear that didn’t work out to well.

    “You’re already considering the cost a necessity as that’s how they provide it, vs something that’s optional, and calling the optional choice out on being a disadvantage.”

    I used my old iPhone for years on wi-fi without a data plan from a phone company. It’s basically a mini-tablet. Everyone has the option to buy an unlocked phone without a carrier plan.

    “Neither does gaming on your Vita or console using the same conditions…”

    When you stated, “When I have to start playing $90/month for a game console you can officially count me out of gaming.” You implied mobile devices require $90/mo to play on.
    They don’t.

    “You’re rather quick to accept that game streaming will occur on devices that arguably have worse internet connections vs consoles (WiFi/Card wired vs 3G,4G). I must say…the amount of pessimism you show one side vs the other is astounding.”

    “Will occur”? It’s already occurred on tablets and phones. It has yet to occur on Vita or PS4 or PS3 or 3DS or XBox 360 or XBox 720.
    http://games.onlive.com/mobile

    “Take and wait and see attitude with consoles that have a better connection vs phones….”

    Vita doesn’t have a better mobile connection than phones, and I’ve used my PS3 over same Wi-Fi I used for my tablet for years now, I notice no difference between it and hardwired, and it’s no better than tablets.

    “…and new console will be out that surpasses that leaving mobile another 5 years behind in microprocessor and bandwidth to play those games, making consoles presence still prominent.”

    Except you’re forgetting it will have taken 9 years for mobile to have caught up this gen (9 this gen, 5 next gen, 1 the gen after?), and I specifically stated 1-3 generations from now.

    “consoles are more like PC’s than anything, and PC’s are very versatile with their ability to update.”

    Desktop PC’s are being replaced by laptops, laptops are being replaced by ultrabooks, ultrabooks are being replaced by tablets and smartphones. All you need for a smartphone/tablet is an adequate dock for it to perform the tasks of any of those devices (as previously linked).

    “And it’s nice to know you won’t have to purchase a console three times in the same span you need to update phones.”

    Why would anyone have to do that once processing power reaches a tipping point where anything more is not necessary? Again. You’re only thinking about the past, not future advances.

  51. phranctoast:

    “Vita was also. I hear that didn’t work out to well.”

    Really? I thought Vita was never subsidized.
    http://www.quora.com/Does-the-PlayStation-Vitas-3G-have-to-be-with-AT-T

    “I used my old iPhone for years on wi-fi without a data plan from a phone company. It’s basically a mini-tablet. Everyone has the option to buy an unlocked phone without a carrier plan.”

    When the exception become the rule……LOL. Reminds me of Happyhockum arguing against the price of Microsoft’s proprietary HDD’s, as somewhere online there’s instructions as to how to install a non proprietary one yourself.
    Anyway….
    https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTYN5_zKUR5ucKURgT8d0dIVonCjzPrVRSGxcKAUJyTiF94QCms4A

    “You implied mobile devices require $90/mo to play on.
    They don’t.”

    Sure they do. Mobile as in phones do. You need the data plan. The jailbreak argument doesn’t work. sorry.

    ““Will occur”? It’s already occurred on tablets and phones. It has yet to occur on Vita or PS4 or PS3 or 3DS or XBox 360 or XBox 720.”

    Yet it’s on the PC now. Only announced on the PS4 as of now which hardwired and Wifi are better than 3G,4G.

    “Vita doesn’t have a better mobile connection than phones, and I’ve used my PS3 over same Wi-Fi I used for my tablet for years now, I notice no difference between it and hardwired, and it’s no better than tablets.”

    I have a 50/25. Peaks higher on both. I speed test my phone on 4G and get 5.5Mb/sec. 5664kbps. Wifi should be standard all around.

    “Except you’re forgetting it will have taken 9 years for mobile to have caught up this gen (9 this gen, 5 next gen, 1 the gen after?), and I specifically stated 1-3 generations from now.”

    OK. So about 20 years from now, consoles may not exist.

  52. phranctoast:

    Woops… Awaiting moderation. Oh well.

  53. CarlB:

    Just change every link but one to h**p and repost… it should work fine.

  54. phranctoast:

    “Vita was also. I hear that didn’t work out to well.”

    Really? I thought Vita was never subsidized.
    h*tp://www.quora.com/Does-the-PlayStation-Vitas-3G-have-to-be-with-AT-T

    “I used my old iPhone for years on wi-fi without a data plan from a phone company. It’s basically a mini-tablet. Everyone has the option to buy an unlocked phone without a carrier plan.”

    When the exception become the rule……LOL. Reminds me of Happyhockum arguing against the price of Microsoft’s proprietary HDD’s, as somewhere online there’s instructions as to how to install a non proprietary one yourself.
    Anyway….
    https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTYN5_zKUR5ucKURgT8d0dIVonCjzPrVRSGxcKAUJyTiF94QCms4A

    “You implied mobile devices require $90/mo to play on.
    They don’t.”

    Sure they do. Mobile as in phones do. You need the data plan. The jailbreak argument doesn’t work. sorry.

    ““Will occur”? It’s already occurred on tablets and phones. It has yet to occur on Vita or PS4 or PS3 or 3DS or XBox 360 or XBox 720.”

    Yet it’s on the PC now. Only announced on the PS4 as of now which hardwired and Wifi are better than 3G,4G.

    “Vita doesn’t have a better mobile connection than phones, and I’ve used my PS3 over same Wi-Fi I used for my tablet for years now, I notice no difference between it and hardwired, and it’s no better than tablets.”

    I have a 50/25. Peaks higher on both. I speed test my phone on 4G and get 5.5Mb/sec. 5664kbps. Wifi should be standard all around.

    “Except you’re forgetting it will have taken 9 years for mobile to have caught up this gen (9 this gen, 5 next gen, 1 the gen after?), and I specifically stated 1-3 generations from now.”

    OK. So about 20 years from now, consoles may not exist.

  55. CarlB:

    “I thought Vita was never subsidized.”

    I think they may have gotten something for making it exclusive to AT&T (perhaps a portion of the contract price). It just didn’t pan out as they had hoped it would.

    “When the exception become the rule”

    I’m not saying it is the rule. It obviously isn’t, as I bought a Vita, and I’m the exception there. ;)

    What I’m saying is people who are already paying a smartphone data bill don’t have to pay “$90″ extra a month to game on their smartphone, and they have all the benefits of a smartphone in one device they use everyday anyway, vice just a dedicated gaming handheld. Vita has become more useful, but it still has a long way to go in order to reach the functionality of a smartphone.

    “Mobile as in phones do. You need the data plan. The jailbreak argument doesn’t work. sorry.”

    In order to use Vita with 3G it costs just as much and you need a data plan as well. You don’t need to jailbreak a smartphone (at least I didn’t with my iPhone) in order to use Wi-Fi only, just set it to Wi-Fi, turn off the 3G/4G network, and use prepaid cards/Skype if you wish to make phone calls (or simply switch back to 3G/4G).

    “Yet it’s on the PC now.”
    And PC sales have been steadily declining for years now while mobile sales have been steadily increasing for years.

    “Only announced on the PS4 as of now which hardwired and Wifi are better than 3G,4G.”

    Right, streaming is already happening and maturing on tablets and via smartphones. Who knows how long it will take for Sony to finally get around to it for PS3, Vita, or PS4. Mobile devices are compatible with Wi-Fi no problem, and can switch between the two easily.

    Wifi is better for me because I don’t find myself traveling a lot since I retired completely last year at the ripe old age of 38. That’s why I use it with both my iPad 2 and iPod Touch now. From what I understand though, real 4G is capable of gigabit speed and new mobile generation speeds advance every 10 years. But I’m not saying 4G or 5G will be greater than broadband wi-fi speeds in that time period, only that mobile devices are versatile enough now to use the best of both worlds, and there will no longer be a need for consoles.

    “Wifi should be standard all around.”

    That’s what I’m saying. It’s no faster on consoles and therefore not an advantage that belongs solely to consoles. Mobile devices can utilize it instead of the 3G/4G just as easily without any jailbreaking necessary. 5.5Mbps over your 4G is more than enough for streaming games. They can work with as low as 1.5Mbps, but 4-5 is recommended for HD resolution. I still think wi-fi is better as it is more stable and less expensive, which is why I mainly use it with my smartphones and tablets.

    “OK. So about 20 years from now, consoles may not exist.”

    Anywhere from 8-24 (1-3 eight year console generations) I would say. They might still exist, but in much, much smaller numbers than they do now. They should continue to decline in sales generation over generation and slowly fade away.

    Anyone who has a smartphone or tablet will simply no longer have the need for dedicated gaming consoles in the future. The only meaningful differentiation remaining I could see next gen is cable TV, which should be supplanted by streaming within the same time period of 1-3 gens.

  56. phranctoast:

    “I think they may have gotten something for making it exclusive to AT&T (perhaps a portion of the contract price). It just didn’t pan out as they had hoped it would.”

    Yeah. That’s not what subsidized means. Sounds more like you’re talking about a contract between Sony and AT&T to make AT&T the exclusive carrier of the PSV network.
    That’s kind of a stupid move on Sony’s part anyway. The PSV is not the iPhone.
    What I’m talking about, and what’s been mentioned as subsidization would be if the PSV cost $99 initially, and you paid it back in contract to At&T, like how phones work (hence our whole conversation on the matter)

    “What I’m saying”

    I know exactly what you’re saying. Being forced to pay the data plan = good and not being forced to = bad.

    “just set it to Wi-Fi”
    Which is possible with the Vita.

    “And PC sales have been steadily declining for years now while mobile sales have been steadily increasing for years.”

    Oh.. My bad. I wasn’t aware this was a conversation about sales. I thought we were talking about the capability of the technology…… What was I thinking? ;)

    “Right, streaming is already happening and maturing on tablets and via smartphones. Who knows how long it will take for Sony to finally get around to it for PS3, Vita, or PS4. Mobile devices are compatible with Wi-Fi no problem, and can switch between the two easily.”

    Well, buying the largest streaming games service company should help. Isn’t Gaikai proven enough to thwart your pessimism?

    ” It’s no faster on consoles and therefore not an advantage that belongs solely to consoles.”

    Hardwired is still faster though. WiFi like the rest will continue to improve. Steaming games on hardwired should be easier than Wifi as far as bandwidth is concerned. If they already have it running fine over Wifi, A connected console should prove to be more than capable my proxy.

    ” They might still exist, but in much, much smaller numbers than they do now. They should continue to decline in sales generation over generation and slowly fade away. ”

    I think what you’ll see is PS4 running an Android OS module so all games created for their phones run on the PS4. You’ll also see the same with all games made to run on Windows phone OS for the Nextbox, making the home console the best of both worlds, and killing Ouya before it gets off the ground.

    ” The only meaningful differentiation remaining I could see next gen is cable TV, which should be supplanted by streaming within the same time period of 1-3 gens.”

    The best way to find meaningful differentiation between gens is to look at the PC now, and ask, what can be done and gain popularity when introduced to a larger userbase.

    I see the Idea of Twitch TV (from the other story) being prominent next gen for Sony with Gaikai. Watching other people play competitive is niche now as it’s only on PC’s, but having Clan competitions worth money, and advertising with leagues can make competitive gaming bigger to a larger audience.

    As of now, Mobile games aren’t really into the competitive MP aspect of gaming. Most of the popular games rely on a connectivity than could be like email. Look at Words with friends, and Draw Something as prime examples of mobile MP.

    This, I see as one aspect the consoles can really differentiate themselves from mobile.

  57. CarlB:

    “That’s not what subsidized means.”

    Definition: “Pay part of the cost of producing (something) to reduce prices for the buyer.”

    Sony likely “subsidized” the vita with income from their exclusive deal with AT&T. They were probably paid some amount before the first Vita ever went on sale, and probably some amount for every contracted 3G Vita ever sold. Yes, the 3G Vita cost extra than the regular, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they did not subsidize it or the regular model with whatever they made off the AT&T deal (there doesn’t have to be “$99″ model, or less expensive model, for it to have been “subsidized”).

    “I know exactly what you’re saying. Being forced to pay the data plan = good and not being forced to = bad.”

    No. You don’t. You think you do based upon the generalizations you make in your own mind. And that is the problem. No one “forces” someone to buy a data plan with a tablet. No one “forces” someone to buy a data plan with an iPod Touch or iPad.

    “Which is possible with the Vita.”
    And also possible with any mobile device.

    “Hardwired is still faster though.”
    Not enough to make any significant difference in my console MP experience with Uncharted 3 or Borderlands 2. And Wi-Fi’s getting a bump this year from 1.3Gbps to 4.3Gbps. But if it’s that big of a deal for you, they have ethernet adapters compatible with Android devices already.

    “I thought we were talking about the capability of the technology”

    I’m talking about devices such as the dedicated game handheld, desktop pc, and console continuing to fade away as mobile devices replace them because of mobile’s increasing capabilities.

    “Look at Words with friends, and Draw Something as prime examples of mobile MP.”

    Look instead at Dead Trigger, Modern Combat 4, Shadowgun, Nova 3, and Real Racing 3 as prime examples of smartphone MP (now compatible with DualShock or any other USB controller via Android). Look at OnLive AAA games, or the console/pc games you are already able to play on tablets such as Razer as prime examples of tablet MP.

    When mobile devices can do everything a dedicated gaming handheld/console/pc can do, including play handheld/console and pc games, then there is no differentiation, and therefor no further need for a dedicated gaming handheld/home gaming console/desktop pc. 1-3 generations.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=q-hweSrTlfc#t=89s

  58. phranctoast:

    “Definition: “Pay part of the cost of producing (something) to reduce prices for the buyer.””

    Thank you for showing through definition, and explanation that the PSV was indeed not subsidized.

    “No. You don’t. You think you do based upon the generalizations you make in your own mind. And that is the problem. No one “forces” someone to buy a data plan with a tablet. No one “forces” someone to buy a data plan with an iPod Touch or iPad. ”

    Not really sure why the iPod Touch or the iPad even have relevancy in this conversation, when it’s obvious the conversation has nothing to do with them. For one, they’re pricey devices that aren’t subsidized by an additional contract (iPad can be with 3G). I think you forget the context of what the conversation is about. When I said, I don’t want to pay $90/month for a console, wasn’t it obvious I was strictly talking about mobile phone service which initial cost of the device is subsidized hence them not making an “initial loss”?

    “Not enough to make any significant difference in my console MP experience with Uncharted 3 or Borderlands 2.”

    Yet enough where Streaming gaming can be a factor, which is why it was brought up in the first place…..

    “I’m talking about devices such as the dedicated game handheld, desktop pc, and console continuing to fade away as mobile devices replace them because of mobile’s increasing capabilities. ”

    So that therefore grants you the right to be pessimistic towards a hardwired solution (that exists now om PC) versus a wireless one. Gotcha..

    “Look instead at Dead Trigger, Modern Combat 4, Shadowgun, Nova 3, and Real Racing 3 as prime examples of smartphone MP (now compatible with DualShock or any other USB controller via Android). Look at OnLive AAA games, or the console/pc games you are already able to play on tablets such as Razer as prime examples of tablet MP. ”

    Yet even with all the devices sold these games aren’t even competing in the same park, game, league as console MP.

    “When mobile devices can do everything a dedicated gaming handheld/console/pc can do, including play handheld/console and pc games, then there is no differentiation, and therefor no further need for a dedicated gaming handheld/home gaming console/desktop pc. 1-3 generations.”

    So your assumption is that this may happen, if consoles don’t differentiate themselves, which they have been doing all this time so far. Crystal clear….

  59. CarlB:

    “explanation that the PSV was indeed not subsidized.”

    Sony took some money for an exclusivity deal with AT&T.
    They didn’t, and still don’t have enough money to not use that money in order to subsidize the price of Vita.

    “I was strictly talking about mobile phone service”

    And I’m not restricting the conversation to any mobile device, smartphone or otherwise. People who already buy and continue to pay for mobile phone service will continue to pay for it and use their smartphones regardless. People who already buy and continue to pay for broadband wi-fi will continue to pay for it and use their tablets regardless. You’re acting as if it’s some kind of added cost coming out of nowhere just to play games on these devices, and it’s not.

    “enough where Streaming gaming can be a factor”

    Right now it works fine with some hiccups. It will only continue to improve over 1-3 console generations.

    “So that therefore grants you the right to be pessimistic towards a hardwired solution (that exists now om PC) versus a wireless one. Gotcha..”

    No. You still don’t get it. I said I’ll “believe it when I see it” as far as Sony and PS3/Vita/PS4 goes because of things like they just managed to figure out folders on their UI for Vita. There is nothing special about Gaikai that they couldn’t have it on PS3/Vita already. As it is now, PSN Mobile doesn’t even have a significant library of games. It took them 6 years just to get a smattering of PS1, PS2, and PSP games compatible via PSN. Realizing Sony tends to drag their feet on these things is just being realistic. By the time they get Gaikai up and running with a good library of games, the opportunity may have already passed them by. I’m not pessimistic about Onlive being on desktop PC’s, I just see desktop PC’s being replaced more and more with laptops and tablets, and desktop PC’s already fading steadily, as dedicated handhelds, and then home consoles will.

    “Yet even with all the devices sold these games aren’t even competing in the same park, game, league as console MP.”

    You’re looking at one device category (mobile) after it’s only been in the incubator for the global gaming market for about 4 years. Less than half a console generation, and it’s already taken it by storm. Consoles/pc’s have been in it for decades. Give it time. As in 8-24 years time.

    “So your assumption is that this may happen, if consoles don’t differentiate themselves, which they have been doing all this time so far.”

    There is no reason for it not to continue to happen as it has already been as long as processing power continues to increase for mobile devices and smart tv’s. Clearly there is no significant differentiation whatsoever consoles can hold exclusively after 3 generations over these other devices.

  60. CarlB:

    PSN Mobile is Sony’s best hope for the long term future. Perhaps they can subsidize their consoles with it. ;)

  61. CarlB:

    http://www.kurzweilai.net/a-tablet-controlled-by-your-brain?utm_source=KurzweilAI+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=055a5d11ed-UA-946742-1&utm_medium=email

  62. phranctoast:

    “Sony took some money for an exclusivity deal with AT&T.”

    Which in no way, shape, or form reduced the price for the buyer. In fact, as you pointed out, was more expensive to the buyer.

    “And I’m not restricting the conversation to any mobile device, smartphone or otherwise.”

    I guess if you want to move the goalposts then feel free to. Kind of makes any discussion with you pointless then if you choose to do so.

    “Right now it works fine with some hiccups. It will only continue to improve over 1-3 console generations.”

    I which time hardwired will continue to get faster and faster and the high quality games can only be pushed on PC’s and consoles.

    I guess the best way to put this is, I straight out disagree with you.

    I think we’ll continue to have games on PC, consoles and mobile for years and years to come. Mobile may blur the lines a bit, but not enough where it will affect the overall hierarchy of game development.

    PC will continue to be for high end. Consoles for mid range, and mobile for low. A good scalable development tool needs to be put in place to get the same game developed for the high end, and run on the others with setting toned down. That should be a concern now.

  63. CarlB:

    “Which in no way, shape, or form reduced the price for the buyer.”

    Both the 3g and regular Vita could have been more expensive without that seed money. Considering it’s taking them this long just for a price drop, I would say that’s not to far from the mark.

    “I guess if you want to move the goalposts”

    You are the one moving them from where I already set them. I’m not talking about smartphones only.

    …”and the high quality games can only be pushed on PC’s and consoles.”

    No. I can already play Assassin’s Creed Revelations, Sleeping Dogs, and The Witcher 2 on tablets or via smartphones.

    “I think we’ll continue to have games on PC, consoles and mobile for years and years to come.”

    I agree, which is why I said 8-24 years. That is “years and years to come” ;)

    “Mobile may blur the lines a bit, but not enough where it will affect the overall hierarchy of game development.”

    I never said it would effect the hierarchy of game development, but I suppose it already has within a matter of just five years.

    “PC will continue to be for high end.”

    For a generation or three. I can’t see much of a market for desktop gaming pc’s, let alone high-end desktop pc’s for games at all after that.

    “Consoles for mid range”

    The console will be integrated into the tablet, smartphone, and smart TV within the time period I’m talking. Count on it.

    “mobile for low.”

    As we can already see now, there are high, mid, and low-end tablets and smartphones, and high, mid, to low-end games to match that processing power.

    As processing power increases, the consoles and desktops will fade away in the consumer market as mobile has everything a consumer needs or desires for games.

    The tablet/smartphone/laptop will be something the consumer gets much more used to dealing with in everyday business and will therefore be essential to them while still allowing them to play all the games they desire. Desktops and consoles will become superfluous, unnecessary and unwanted boxes.

    “A good scalable development tool needs to be put in place to get the same game developed for the high end, and run on the others with setting toned down. That should be a concern now.”

    Mobile already has these tools and is using them constantly in low, mid, and high-end devices.

  64. CarlB:

    http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-edge

  65. CarlB:

    “The most powerful tablet in the world.
    Runs all PC games and applications.
    It’s a Tablet, It’s a PC, It’s a Console.”

  66. phranctoast:

    “The most powerful tablet in the world.
    Runs all PC games and applications.
    It’s a Tablet, It’s a PC, It’s a Console, it’s Niche.”

  67. CarlB:

    It’s the first of it’s kind available on the market.
    Of course it’s “Niche”.

  68. phranctoast:

    And expensive. $1,500! Consoles have nothing to fear.

  69. CarlB:

    Like the price will never go down.

  70. CarlB:

    $999 for the base model and just use a DualShock.

  71. phranctoast:

    Let us know how it is when you buy it.

  72. CarlB:

    The new model 8-24 years from now?
    Sure thing.

  73. CarlB:

    “One thing’s for sure, Razer is just getting started.”

    http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/04/19/razer-90-off-coupon-leaks-company-honors-orders-anyway

  74. CarlB:

    And the “low-end” Android 4.0, 1.2Ghz, 8GB, 512MB DDR3 RAM w/9″ display for $112:

    http://www.nomorerack.com/daily_deals/view/317221-allwinner_a13_google_android_4_0_1_2ghz_8gb_9__tablet_pc_with_dual_cameras__pouch___stylus_pen

  75. phranctoast:

    “Both the 3g and regular Vita could have been more expensive without that seed money. Considering it’s taking them this long just for a price drop, I would say that’s not to far from the mark. ”

    Wasn’t it you, who would relentlessly post the cost to manufacture the PS Vita? Isn’t that price $160? Give it up already….You made a valiant stand on “trying” to prove the Vita was subsidized, but you failed miserably. Besides the obvious fact that you appear to not know what you’re talking about, you ultimately failed to follow the conversation as to why the subsidy was brought up.

    “You are the one moving them from where I already set them. I’m not talking about smartphones only.”

    being the point was the subsidy, I was.

    “No. I can already play Assassin’s Creed Revelations, Sleeping Dogs, and The Witcher 2 on tablets or via smartphones.”

    With “hipcups”.

    “For a generation or three. I can’t see much of a market for desktop gaming pc’s, let alone high-end desktop pc’s for games at all after that.”

    The beauty of the PC is they’re so versatile. As long as PC’s have a place in the business world, they’ll continue to in the consumer world. Sure, Smartphones and tablets will eat a nice size of marketspace for the people that can get by with as much. You typing back to me on a PC, instead of a smartphone or tablet shows why they won’t go away.
    Gaming is another monster altogether. Casuals may go the way of the smartphone and tablet for gaming, but consoles have always distinguished themselves.

    “Mobile already has these tools and is using them constantly in low, mid, and high-end devices.”

    No they don’t. Or you just have no idea what I’m talking about.

  76. CarlB:

    “Isn’t that price $160?”

    It was, but didn’t Sony also say they couldn’t lower the price any further, and they were working with their engineers to get a cheaper model? Wasn’t it you that was arguing how terribly expensive R&D was, along with marketing?

    “The beauty of the PC is they’re so versatile.”

    That is the beauty of the tablet. It’s even more versatile than a desktop PC. I’m typing back to you on a “mobile” laptop (basically a tablet stuck on a keyboard with a mouse hooked up). lol

    “Gaming is another monster altogether. Casuals may go the way of the smartphone and tablet for gaming, but consoles have always distinguished themselves.”

    When the same console game is being played with the same controller it is no longer different, except it’s much, much easier to take your game with you and use the same device for much more than just playing games/watching movies.

    Your talking about a tablet/smartphone form factor that has been around on the main (mass) market for about 4 years for games compared to one that’s been on the market for 33.

    What real difference remains in home box consoles’ favor once tablets/smartphones catch up to them in processing power?

    None.

    Unless you like devices that have become obsolete or you’re a museum curator.

    “always”

    “The past is a foreign country, they do things differently there”:

    https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/544748_647779781904069_1329369483_n.jpg

    The dev tools you are talking about are simply a transition tool that will be used within the 8-24 year period I’m talking about while people continue to migrate from desktop pc’s/consoles to tablets/smartphones for games (and everything else).

  77. CarlB:

    “33″
    ~40 counting Magnavox Odyssey as the first home console.

    Within about a tenth of that time tablets and smartphones have managed to match/surpass the first 33 of home console’s performance in a form factor that’s a fraction of the size and several times more useful.

    I see no reason why Sony would not put out all existing games on PSN Mobile and Gaikai for all compatible Android devices in the future, unless they want to seriously restrict their profits by limiting it to only Sony branded devices.

    “The Vita has now sold just over a million units in the US in the 13 months since its launch. For a rough comparison, consider that the original PlayStation Portable sold over 1.12 million units in December 2005 alone, during its first holiday season. Sony has twice scaled back worldwide sales expectations for the Vita, yet shows only vague signs of plans to lower the hardware’s price… in the US at least.”
    http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/04/report-wii-u-vita-continue-poor-us-sales-performance-in-march/

  78. CarlB:

    “Tegra 4 also has a companion core to take care of the easier tasks, resulting in less energy consumption and longer battery standby times. It’s capable of supporting Ultra HD (4K) video through the HDMI port, 4GB of RAM, and a screen resolution up to 3200 x 2000 pixels.” (Vita’s is 960 × 544)

    http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/mobile-processor-roundup/

  79. phranctoast:

    “It was, but didn’t Sony also say they couldn’t lower the price any further, and they were working with their engineers to get a cheaper model?”

    Don’t recall that.

    “Wasn’t it you that was arguing how terribly expensive R&D was, along with marketing?”

    I think R+D came up when you kept bringing up the fiscal losses of Sony. Along with several natural disasters impacting Japan.

    I think you may just be thinking about something you brought up.

    In fact. I said this:
    “Where did you find the Vita manufacturers cost? I was under the impression Sony was losing on each one sold and were trying to make up with that with exhorbant memory card prices.”

    You on the other hand said this:
    “Even with R&D, dev, testing, shipping, manufacturing, marketing, etc.; add on say another $40 to the cost of each unit (Sony usually takes a loss on new hardware based on hardware alone anyway), that would be $200 and still sell much more. ”

    http://gamer.blorge.com/2012/06/20/e3-vita-round-up-part-1-call-of-duty-declassified-soul-sacrifice-silent-hill-and-free-wipeout-game/#comment-188976

    That is the beauty of the tablet. It’s even more versatile than a desktop PC. I’m typing back to you on a “mobile” laptop (basically a tablet stuck on a keyboard with a mouse hooked up). lol”

    Thank you for making my case. LOL.

    “What real difference remains in home box consoles’ favor once tablets/smartphones catch up to them in processing power?

    None. ”

    Plenty. Developers for one. AAA games. Publishing/marketing. Standardization for MP games.

    “The dev tools you are talking about are simply a transition tool that will be used within the 8-24 year period I’m talking about while people continue to migrate from desktop pc’s/consoles to tablets/smartphones for games (and everything else).”

    The tools I’m talking about are versatile enough where a games gets built on one engine (PC/Console), and can get downgraded accordingly to accommodate mobile.

    As if now, no mobile game looks as good as the worst PS3/360 game. If consoles can continue to keep a 5+ year advantage over mobile, they made they case for continuing to exist.

    “I see no reason why Sony would not put out all existing games on PSN Mobile and Gaikai for all compatible Android devices in the future, unless they want to seriously restrict their profits by limiting it to only Sony branded devices. ”

    Streaming cloud gaming could alleviate some of the processor bottlenecks but that doesn’t come with it’s own concerns.

    For one it will always require a subscription (which is fair). It may only be financially viable as a solution for older games, as cloud gaming providers have to run the game servers themselves.

    In this respect, I see no reason for Sony to not include this solution in Android devices.

  80. CarlB:

    “Don’t recall that.”

    Here you go:

    “Sony engineers are working to reduce the cost of manufacturing the PS Vita so it can cut the price of the handheld – but that price cut won’t happen this year.”

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-08-16-sony-engineers-working-on-ps-vita-cost-reduction-for-post-2012-price-cut

    “As if now, no mobile game looks as good as the worst PS3/360 game. If consoles can continue to keep a 5+ year advantage over mobile, they made they case for continuing to exist.”

    AAA console and PC games are available and can look just as good on high end tablets as they do on console. Differences in graphics are already nominal between consoles and high-end tablets now, and that difference will only continue to be reduced generation over generation until there is no difference.

    “Streaming cloud gaming could alleviate some of the processor bottlenecks but that doesn’t come with it’s own concerns.”

    Those concerns are being put to rest as bandwidth and tech advances now. I see no reason why that will not continue until there are no remaining concerns.

    “For one it will always require a subscription (which is fair).”

    If the subscription gives the gamer the same game time for less than buying games, while also adding to a virtual library in which backwards compatibility is never a concern, then that is only more incentive to get the subscription.

    “It may only be financially viable as a solution for older games, as cloud gaming providers have to run the game servers themselves.”

    They could easily work in higher cost to access newer games to cover the cost of more game servers, not to mention that they don’t have to deal with the profit loss of used games if the game is only available on the servers.

    Both of these reasons trump gaming server cost and give Sony plenty of reason to include this solution and digital downloads for all compatible mobile devices.

  81. CarlB:

    “The consumer tablet market arguably started with Apple’s iPad in 2010. And in three years, the market is nearly equal that of desktops and is on track to surpass laptops possibly this year.”

    http://gigaom.com/2013/02/21/more-evidence-of-tablets-slowly-killing-the-pc-market/

    “The best iPad games look like middle-of-the-road Xbox 360 games. Your smartphone is quickly getting to the point where its hardware could display good-looking games in 1080p on your television, and it won’t be long before your phone and TV can sync up without cables.

    “At this year’s CES, WHDI-enabled tablets were shown that could beam 1080p games to a television with no latency. If tablets and televisions integrate such a wireless communication standard, your iPad would become your PlayStation with the push of a button.

    “These devices increasingly have the memory, processing and battery power to deliver this functionality,” he said in an e-mail. “Connectivity is the final step.”

    h**p://www.wired.com/gamelife/2012/10/consolation-prize/2/

    “What do you mean, a forest? All I see are these trees! While analyzing the individual merits and flaws of this device or that device can certainly be useful and fun, I think the big picture is getting lost: Everything about living-room gaming is going to change. More and more consumers will be buying their games on open platforms, all but a handful of the biggest games will be playable on these open platforms and they will cost significantly less money than we are paying for them now…

    Sony’s and Microsoft’s likely rewards for selling those 150 million consoles have been billions of dollars of losses. By his reckoning, Nintendo is the only company that’s made one thin freaking dime off the game console business in the last decade.”

    h**p://www.wired.com/gamelife/2013/01/nvidia-shield/

    “For these “mainstream console gamers” mentioned in (3), a high-end tablet or smartphone actually suits their gaming needs better than a console in terms of the balance of price/convenience/performance. From a performance point of view it may be below console, but the device is more convenient to use, the software is cheaper or free, and the device has a low or zero perceived cost, because the user owns one anyway or pays for it in installments via a carrier.

    …as smartphones and tablets continue to get more and more powerful (and they are increasing in power faster than any other class of device), and as more and more publishers start to actively target those “mainstream console gamers” with mobile games, more and more of those people will gradually move their gaming hours and dollars away from console gaming to their mobile devices. Without this huge group of people buying consoles or console games, the console platform holders will no longer be able to make enough money to justify developing, marketing and manufacturing the devices.

    It doesn’t matter that there will “always be a market for consoles” among the hardcore, because the console model as we know it relies so much on the money from the “mainstream console gamers.”

    h**p://kotaku.com/5973498/weapons-of-mass-disruption-3-how-and-why-consoles-will-die?popular=true

  82. CarlB:

    “A majority of the Sony stores across the US have dropped the price of the 3G-compatible PlayStation Vita, down to $199.97. The base 3G bundle includes the handheld, an 8GB memory card and a voucher for a free PlayStation Network game – if you sign up for data coverage, that is.”

    http://www.joystiq.com/2013/03/11/select-sony-stores-selling-ps-vita-3g-for-200/

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