Sony posts $458m profit despite $3.2 billion spent in acquisitions in 2012

May 10, 2013

Sony posts $458m profit despite $3.2 billion spent in acquisitions in 2012 Earlier today Sony released its long awaited fiscal report for 2012 and as expected the company has finally broken its 5 year streak of bad luck. The company posted a net profit of 43bn yen or $458 million, a vast improvement over its $5.7 billion net loss in 2011.

Games

On the game side of things, like across the industry Sony is seeing a 12 percent drop in profits but still posted a small operating gain in the PlayStation division. The company revealed that where its taking the most beating is in its handheld division with the PS Vita’s slow sales. Notably, Sony reports that PS3 and PS2 sales combined totaled 16.5 million units for 2012. PS3 rival, Xbox 360 sold 10 million units in 2012.

While Sony started lumping PS2 sales in with the PS3, its not difficult to extrapolate an approximation of the each of the sales. PS2 sales have been dropping steadily year after year from 7.9 million (2009) to 6.4 million (2010) to 4.1 million (2009), progressively decreasing. You can reasonably assume that PS2 sales attributed to around 2 to 3 million units out of the 16.5.

Sony noted that the company expects to sell 10 million PS3s in 2013, with the launch of the PS4 later in the year. The company also noted that significant capital has been spent in R&D for the next gen console impacting the game division’s operating income.

Sony Overall

The company also posted a very impressive $2.4 billion operating income, which was boosted by several factors – weakening of the Yen against the dollar, sales of two buildings, sales of chemical segment and M3 shares.

This is definitely good news for Sony and really shows how serious Kaz Hirai is about turning the company around. While Sir Howard Stringer, former CEO of Sony was unable to make the tough decisions needed, it appears that Hirai is making decisive yet strategic decisions across the board. 

Some analysts such as Gerhard Fasol of Eurotechnology Japan was quick to point out that these gains “really need to be subtracted from the results, to understand the regular operating results.” Fasol believes that these numbers do not reflect the company’s true success. 

While Fasol does have a point, its not as simple as that when considering that the two building sales were strategic asset conversions. It makes sense to sell assets of non-core business units and lease office space. A better question is why didn’t Stringer look at offloading some of these bloated non-core assets and business units such as the chemical and battery divisions during his tenure?

Here is a quick inventory of the sales of assets for 2012 (net):

  • New York Building: $691 million
  • Osaki City Building: $450 million
  • Chemical business: $97 million
  • Total Asset sales: $1.2 billion

In addition to the sales of the assets mentioned above, Sony came into some M3 shares as a bonus from its So-net acquisition. Sony offloaded these shares and earned a cool $1.3 billion in 2012.

While its easy to argue that the only reason Sony made a gain was due to the sales of its asset, lets not forget that the company was also busy spending that money by making strategic acquisitions per Kaz Hirai’s mandate. On a number of occasions, Hirai stated that making these acquisitions would be critical to the success of Sony’s future business.

Here is a quick inventory of the acquisitions in 2012 (est.):

  • Sony Ericsson: $1.5 billion
  • Gaikai: $380 million
  • EMI Music Publishing $2.2 billion (joint) – est. $450 million
  • Left Bank Pictures: $60 million
  • So-net: $764 million
  • Total spent on Acquisitions: $3.15 billion

The last one on the list is actually quite impressive, with Sony acquiring ISP company So-net wholly near the end of 2012 for an estimated value of $764 million through shares. Just three weeks ago, Sony made headlines with the launch of Nuro, So-net’s 2GB/s Internet service. Nuro is said to be the fastest Internet tech in the world, currently beating out Google’s 1GB/s Fiber technology by a significant margin. According to Sony, So-net’s acquisition was made to bolster its already growing Cloud infrastructure.

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78 Responses to “Sony posts $458m profit despite $3.2 billion spent in acquisitions in 2012”

  1. Godless:

    I love that the bought So-net for 764 million then sold the M3 shares that company owned for 1.3 Billion. . nice move.

    if you add that $1.3 billion to the $1.2 from total asset sales, it looks like they still spent around $650 million more on new assets than they sold, and managed a $458 million profit overall.

    Will be interesting to see what the professional financial markets assessment of Sony is.

  2. phranctoast:

    They bought Gaikai last July for 380M.

  3. Andrew_DS:

    WOW. Nice to hear a company make a profit in these hard times!

  4. phranctoast:

    Here’s a very good breakdown (bookmark worthy)

    http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=555550&page=1

  5. phranctoast:

    360 down…….. Wii next. Muhahhaha ;)

  6. Roca.:

    PS3 almost sold as much as X360, Wii & Wii U combined.

  7. CarlB:

    Perhaps HQ buildings can be considered “non-core” assets when you are forced to rent instead of own.

    It seems as though they lost ~$4.5 billion the previous fiscal year and made 450 million this last year (after having to sell their homes for $1B). Definitely an improvement. 9 more years like this and they might be able to make up for previous year losses. Although they don’t have any other HQ’s to sell, and it might take a little longer to make up for the last 5 previous years losses, nor can they rely on the currency exchange rates.

    The good news is they look to be set for mobile and fiber growth.

    “Those improvements were attributed to converting Sony Mobile Communications into a wholly owned subsidiary, more favorable foreign exchange rates, and improvements in the company’s financial services business.

    However, the company’s gaming business suffered over the year, as sales dropped more than 12 percent to ¥707.1 billion ($7.5 billion). On top of that the division’s operating profits virtually vanished, going from ¥29.3 billion ($310 million) the previous year to just ¥1.7 billion ($18 million).”

    http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-05-09-playstation-full-year-sales-slide

    “The last one on the list is actually quite impressive, with Sony acquiring ISP company So-net wholly near the end of 2012 for an estimated value of $764 million through shares.”

    Wasn’t So-Net originally Sony Communication Network Corporation (1995)? Did they lose majority share after they put it on the TSE back in 2005?

  8. phranctoast:

    Sony really saw quite the increase in PS3 sales from the same time last year.

    1.9M vs 3.4M

    PS3 is a beast!!!!!

  9. CarlB:

    “Sony reported home console sales of 16.5 million systems for the full year, down from 18 million the year prior. Despite the Vita’s struggles, portables were up from 6.8 million units sold to 7 million. However, packaged software was down in both categories. PlayStation 2 and 3 games moved 153.9 million copies, down from 164.5 million last year. Meanwhile, the PS Vita and PSP combined for 28.8 million games sold, down from 32.2 million.”

  10. Roca.:

    PS3 sales saw a huge increased for the quater Jan-Mar ’13 vs Jan-Mar ’12

    as Phranc said: 3.4M vs 1.9

    F11 vs F12 sales decreased from 18M (4.1M were PS2s) to 16.5M

  11. phranctoast:

    (4.1M were PS2s)

    Yep. Let’s toast the end of life of the PS2′s. They had a hell of a run.

    It’s also extremely obvious to anyone with a brain (surprised gameidustry.biz didn’t pick up on it) that the decrease is difference in PS2 sales.

    Starting this quarter, they shouldn’t be included in the fiscals as Sony stopped producing them in Janaury.

  12. phranctoast:

    Sony is not anticipating to make a loss with the launch of the PlayStation 4.
    During a earnings call today, Sony CFO Masaru Kato stated, “Unlike PS3, we are not planning a major loss to be incurred with the launch of PS4.”
    Kato’s prediction (caught by Eurogamer) is mainly down to PS4 using a chip that has required much less R&D and investment by the company.
    “At the time we developed PS3, we made a lot of in-house investments to develop the chip – the Cell chip,” said Kato. “Development of the chip saw the silicon processing and all the facilities invested by us ourselves.
    “Yes we have a team working on chip development – but we already have existing technology to incorporate and also product investment and all the facilities will now be invested by our partners, other foundries, so we don’t have to make all the investment in-house.”
    The company’s net income was 42.8 billion yen (roughly $436 million). While this isn’t huge, it’s a healthy improvement considering the huge losses of a year ago, and it’s the first time the company has been in profit since 2008. Not too shabby for Kaz Hirai’s first year in charge of the whole company.
    Meanwhile, in the games segment sales were down 12.2% and operating income (a measure of a film’s profit excluding taxes and interest) was down by 94% to $18 million.

    Combined sales of PS3 and PS2 consoles have fallen to 16.5 million from 18 million last year. This isn’t surprising though, factoring generation fatigue and the announcement of the PlayStation 4. Sony’s portables – PSP and Vita – sold 7 million units, which is a slight improvement on the 6.8 million sold last year. While up, it’s worth noting that the Vita’s price-cut in Japan (Feb 2013) undermined the fact more units were shifted, earning Sony less money overall.
    The report is optimistic about the future of the company’s game business: “Sales are expected to increase significantly primarily due to the planned introduction of the PlayStation 4 in the fiscal year ending March 31, 2014. Operating income is expected to be essentially flat year-on-year primarily due to an increase in research and development expenses and marketing expenses related to the introduction of the PS4.”
    Its fortunes haven’t reversed entirely but this is a much leaner, streamlined, and ultimately more profitable Sony than the company of a year ago.”

  13. phranctoast:

    http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/09/sony-not-anticipating-a-loss-with-playstation-4-launch

  14. CarlB:

    “F11 vs F12 sales decreased from 18M (4.1M were PS2s) to 16.5M”

    …”Sony did not release sales projections for the PlayStation 4… the company expects the PS3 to sell 10 million units this fiscal year, with the PSP and PS Vita combining to move just 5 million new systems.”

    Unless they plan on selling 6.5 million PS4′s before now and the end of next March, if their forecast is accurate, it looks as though they will have an even slower year this year with both home consoles and handhelds, continuing the loss in hardware sales year over year.

  15. phranctoast:

    Unless there’s some unforeseen event occurs, 6.5M is entirely possible in the five month period the PS4 is out.
    Plus, I think Sony is lowballing ps3 numbers for the next fiscal year. If this past quarter is any indication, PS3 sales should be higher than 10M.

    Even if they don’t, there’s no reason to suspect that it won’t outsell the initial PS3 sales from 2006 and also have a long life cycle too.

    Why all the pessimism?

  16. Roca.:

    “Why all the pessimism?”

    it’s called trolling

  17. CarlB:

    “6.5M is entirely possible in the five month period the PS4 is out.”

    Anything’s possible. Strange as to why they wouldn’t have enough faith to forecast anything whatsoever for PS4.

    Why all the optimism?

  18. CaptBirdman:

    Hilarious that this BULLSHIT article gets more comments on it than the one about the imminent GT6 announcement.

    Pathetic.

    I’m taking my talents to Neogaf.

  19. dans:

    And I’m taking my talents to….. er…. Twitter!!

  20. CaptBirdman:

    Thanks for the Timberlake tip Danny Boy. Pretty good.

  21. phranctoast:

    “Strange as to why they wouldn’t have enough faith to forecast anything whatsoever for PS4.”

    Actually they did a while back. It was an absurdly high number that none of us took seriously. Hopefully it’s not an indication that they keep planning on combining sales.

  22. CarlB:

    Sony forecast sales numbers for PS4 in FY 2013?
    I missed that one, would you link it (I couldn’t find it with a google search)?

  23. phranctoast:

    http://gamer.blorge.com/2013/03/06/eidos-montreal-confirms-thief-4-heading-to-next-gen-consoles-in-2014-leaked-images/

  24. Roca.:

    @Birdman

    We don’t know anything about GT6 yet, there isn’t much to talk about…

    All we can do is wait until May 15th :)

    The only thing I can is that I really hope GT6 is a PS4 title.

  25. CarlB:

    I don’t think what you linked counts as a “Sony forecast”, but thanks for linking it anyway.
    Right now it seems Sony’s forecast for PS4′s sales in FY 2013 is “no comment”, and or gross generalizations like “we shouldn’t lose as much money with it at launch as we did with PS3.”

    “Sony didn’t offer any sales guidance for PS4. The company has confirmed a PS4 release date of “holiday 2013″ in at least one of Japan, Europe and the US.”

    http://www.computerandvideogames.com/405057/sony-expects-worsening-handheld-business/

    Even if Sony plans on a global release (instead of just one country) NLT Nov. 1 and massive marketing campaign, it seems as though 5M would be stretching it by March 31, 2014, all things considered. The price point would have to be phenomenal 6.5M.

    “If the PS4 ships in December as Sony indicated, it will only offer about half the performance of a GTX680 GPU (based on GFLOPS and texture), which launched in March 2012, more than a year and a half ago.”

    h**p://www.techradar.com/us/news/gaming/consoles/nvidia-compares-ps4-specs-to-a-low-end-cpu-1138051

  26. CarlB:

    God of War… Monster Hunter… Elder Scrolls?
    http://www.computerandvideogames.com/405210/sony-exec-teases-amazing-big-vita-title/

    Vita titles I’m still looking forward to (source: MC “coming soon”):

    Muramasa Rebirth
    Dragon’s Crown
    Valhalla Knights 3
    Killzone Mercenary
    Y’s: Memories of Celceta
    Arkham Origins
    Bioshock Infinite
    FFX HD Remaster
    Rainbow Moon

  27. phranctoast:

    “Even if Sony plans on a global release (instead of just one country) NLT Nov. 1 and massive marketing campaign, it seems as though 5M would be stretching it by March 31, 2014, all things considered. The price point would have to be phenomenal 6.5M.”

    The Wii U sold 3M from Nov 18th through Dec and all things considered, it’s crap with no games.

    If Sony can keep the PS4 mid $400 range and also offer a subsidized package (maybe with a Sony Style card) for $100 cheaper, I can see 6.5M happening by March.

    Of course that’s IF they can ship worldwide with no supply constraints. Yes. I made the if big for a reason.

  28. CaptBirdman:

    @Roca

    I’m almost certain it’ll be cross-gen, if not only on PS3.

    I HOPE it’s on PS4. I’d like to see it directly compete with the inevitable new Forza on Xbox Infinity. Drive Club looks too good right now, so I hope GT6 will be competing.

    Who am I kidding, I’m going to buy it anyway :/

  29. phranctoast:

    I like the name Xbox Fusion better than Xbox Infinity.

  30. CarlB:

    “The Wii U sold 3M from Nov 18th through Dec and all things considered”

    Considering all things: the previous popularity of the Wii, Nintendo’s “family friendly” rep, not launching at the same time as other new consoles, and the popularity of the DS, this wasn’t all that surprising.

    “If Sony can keep the PS4 mid $400 range and also offer a subsidized package (maybe with a Sony Style card) for $100 cheaper, I can see 6.5M happening by March.”

    $350-$450 and still sell 6.5M in less than 5 months?
    I doubt it. The “share” button seems to be the only thing consumers will pick up on besides upgraded specs and a handful of new titles.

    “Of course that’s IF they can ship worldwide with no supply constraints.”

    Even “if” all that happens, it’s still a stretch. Nintendo is saving it’s big titles for this holiday season, and Microsoft will no doubt come out the gates with a very strong marketing campaign for both 720 and 360.

    I’m not saying either of those is “better” by any means (I personally plan on buying a PS4), just that they will all be fighting tooth and nail this holiday season to get people to buy new consoles when there’s a good chance they are already perfectly happy with just buying new software for their old ones (or buying new present gen consoles for less than half the price).

    Other considerations: this will be the first Playstation launch where tablets and smartphones are likely considered a priority purchase over a home console, and also the first Playstation launch in the presence of a variety of microconsoles (like Ouya, Gamestick, OnLive, Project Shield, etc.) to tempt impulse/casual buyers. Again, I don’t think these offerings are “better” for gaming by any means at this point, just that they will be vying for consumer’s dollars whereas they were not before.

  31. phranctoast:

    ” this wasn’t all that surprising.”

    This wasn’t surprising as it shows how a worldwide launch without supply constraints should look, and it’s still rather low in comparison to the hardware sales of its competitors at the very same time (also selling worldwide with no supply issues). It’s subsequent sales prove it is crap with no games however. I don’t foresee the PS4 or Nextbox having this problem.

    “Even “if” all that happens, it’s still a stretch. Nintendo is saving it’s big titles for this holiday season, and Microsoft will no doubt come out the gates with a very strong marketing campaign for both 720 and 360.”

    Neither Nintendo or Microsoft should be factors as proven by current and past numbers that the market is large anough and can
    sustain 6.5M consoles sold between Oct-March for all of them.

    “Other considerations: this will be the first Playstation launch where tablets and smartphones are likely considered a priority purchase over a home console”

    It will be the first playstation “launch” with such conditions, but absolutely not the first playstation holiday season with them, and the PS3, 360, and Wii U, just sold 6.8M, 5.9M, and 3M respectively.

    “I don’t think these offerings are “better” for gaming by any means at this point, just that they will be vying for consumer’s dollars whereas they were not before.”

    I think there’s many things vying for people’s money every holiday season.
    Consoles at launch (with the exception of the Wii) target the core audience more so, so I believe other casual choices like Ouya, Gamestick, etc won’t impact a high profile console release such as the PS4 or Nextbox.

  32. CarlB:

    “It’s subsequent sales prove it is crap with no games however.”

    So did 3DS’s. A price drop and just a few games later on turned that around just a wee bit. Nintendo was also probably hardest hit by mobile due to it’s casual nature. Microsoft and Sony will also feel those effects at launch, though perhaps not as pronounced.

    “Neither Nintendo or Microsoft should be factors as proven by current and past numbers that the market is large anough and can
    sustain 6.5M consoles sold between Oct-March for all of them.”

    That’s wonderful, but I stated November-March.
    Five months. Sony will be lucky to launch globally even by then.

    Both Nintendo and Microsoft will be factors this holiday season, and current numbers show the console market as a whole declining 25% year over year. There may be a slowing of the decline or even a slight bump this holiday season, but nothing to indicate PS4 will sell 6.5M by March 31, 2014 in the midst of full on competition.

    “PS3, 360, and Wii U, just sold 6.8M, 5.9M, and 3M respectively.”

    Sounds like a lot less room for PS4 this holiday season, even without Infinity.

    “I think there’s many things vying for people’s money every holiday season.”

    More this holiday season than any in the past.

    “Consoles at launch (with the exception of the Wii) target the core audience more so, so I believe other casual choices like Ouya, Gamestick, etc won’t impact a high profile console release such as the PS4 or Nextbox.”

    Consoles at launch in past generations (including Playstation and XBox) enjoyed purchases by casual as well as the core audience mainly because the casuals didn’t really have anything else other than a couple of handheld consoles to choose from.

    Granted, WiiU is likely to be the hardest hit, but PS4 and Infinity will still suffer from the lack of casuals, mainly because they make up the majority of the market and core represents the minority, probably even for home consoles like PS3 and 360. Not to mention that core gamers are beginning to play more “casual” titles like PvZ, Journey, Guacamelee, etc., yet casual gamers don’t seem to be playing more core titles.

    Vita was supposedly targeting “core” gamers as well, with gobs of power over the competition. That didn’t seem to go so well, and it still doesn’t.

  33. phranctoast:

    “. Microsoft and Sony will also feel those effects at launch, though perhaps not as pronounced.”

    Or Perhaps not at all, as it has yet to be proven that mobile hurts console sales. 6.8M and 3.4M PS3′s sold for the last 6 months speaks volumes. Enjoy the crow.

    “That’s wonderful, but I stated November-March.
    Five months. Sony will be lucky to launch globally even by then.”

    5 months is more difficult to track than two fiscal quarters. Forgive me for using stats traceable by their respective companies. And yes, if Sony can’t large globally they will not reach 6.5M consoles sold by the end of March.

    “but nothing to indicate PS4 will sell 6.5M by March 31, 2014 in the midst of full on competition.”

    Other than the fact that there’s 10.2M PS3 consoles sold between the last two fiscal quarters in the midst of full on competition.

    “Sounds like a lot less room for PS4 this holiday season, even without Infinity.”

    That was a joke right? Sometimes it’s difficult to determine without emoticons or the ever popular “/sarcasm”

    “Consoles at launch in past generations (including Playstation and XBox) enjoyed purchases by casual as well as the core audience mainly because the casuals didn’t really have anything else other than a couple of handheld consoles to choose from.”

    Sorry. Just can’t agree with you there. Traditionally the core audiences are the early adopters of consoles at launch.

    The effect you talk about won’t truly be evident until midway into the consoles life when you traditionally the casuals jump in. So Sony and Microsoft have 3+years to prove they’re worth it to that audience. I trust they will.

  34. CarlB:

    “6.8M and 3.4M PS3?s sold for the last 6 months speaks volumes.”

    That seems to say people are willing to buy an established present gen console with 2-6 games bundled in for around $250, not a next gen console for $450 (no games included).

    “Other than the fact that there’s 10.2M PS3 consoles sold between the last two fiscal quarters in the midst of full on competition.”

    Again, an established present gen console with games for ~$250+. Not a next gen console without games for $450.

    “Traditionally the core audiences are the early adopters of consoles at launch.”

    Ah yes, the same “tradition” in which the first few decades were dominated by what some people now label “casual” games. This holiday season already looks to be crowded with present gen AAA titles.

    Another difference between this coming launch and “tradition” is graphics have reached a point (“good enough”) where “core” and “casual” (aka “gamers”) alike probably don’t have nearly the incentive they had in the past to buy a new console at launch. The difference doesn’t seem nearly as pronounced in games as it used to be. A few more sparks here or pores there is all. Everything else is already on the consoles people can get now, for hundreds less.

    Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo will still experience healthy sales this next gen, but they probably will have less combined than they did last gen. That decline will probably not stop with just the next gen either.

    Other considerations:

    PS3 represented a more significant jump at launch in graphics than PS4 seems to.
    PS4′s 4K abilities over 1080p at launch doesn’t seem to have nearly the allure that Blu-ray’s 1080p had over SD/DVD at PS3′s launch.
    A “share” button? meh.

    “Core” gamer this holiday season?
    GTAV
    Call of Duty Ghosts
    Batman: Arkham Origins
    Beyond: Two Souls
    Battlefield 4
    Assassin’s Creed IV: Black Flag
    Watchdogs (also on PS4, yet even the senior producer said it was “the same game experience” on PS3 as PS4, just “magnified” on PS4).

  35. CarlB:

    “When players can download or stream games easily and affordably, the video-game console could shrink further to essentially become a handful of chips inside a next-generation smart TV.”

    http://business.time.com/2013/02/11/game-over-why-video-game-console-sales-are-plummeting/

  36. phranctoast:

    “not a next gen console for $450 (no games included).”

    Only if we ignore the draw and immense hype of the next gen.It’s pretty evident now. The 360′s perceived console fatigue shows this too.

    “Another difference between……..”

    See above point.

    “Other considerations:………..”
    The blu ray point is very good. It won’t have the draw provided by a new video format. Not too sure of the overall effect this could have though as traditionally early adopters are all about the games.

    I dont think the share button should be so easily dismissed. The hype I’ve gauged over gaf has been pretty high for this. Something has to be said about being able to watch friends play games you don’t have while they’re playing it for advertising reasons alone.

    ““Core” gamer this holiday season?
    GTAV. (probably PS4 game too. PC port sounds likely and easy to do considering the ease and similarity between the two)
    Call of Duty Ghosts (PS4 game too)
    Batman: Arkham Origins (PSN/XBLA game)
    Battlefield 4 (PS4 game too)
    Assassin’s Creed IV: Black Flag (PS4 game too)
    Watchdogs (PS4 game too)

    We could probably go back and forth for days and the quality of the arguments will digress further.

    I’d be more interested in talking about how Sony can steal NA marketshare from Microsofts dominance from this gen.

  37. CaptBirdman:

    Phranc:

    Why? Just let it go!

    I don’t see any point in going back and forth with Carl. Just ignore his posts and continue to post as if he never said anything. His style of discussion is irritating to say the least.

  38. phranctoast:

    “Phranc:
    Why? Just let it go!”

    Which is why I’m trying to help change the subject and offered an ‘out’.

    “I don’t see any point in going back and forth with Carl. Just ignore his posts and continue to post as if he never said anything. His style of discussion is irritating to say the least.”

    Very true once we get to the point we have. Creating counter points for the sake of continuing an argument is grating but every now and then he can add contributionary insight.

    I’m hoping the next conversation could be one of them and not something like:

    ‘well…..Sony can make the PS4 for like mobile’ or some similar tripe that pushes his agenda to cause strife instead of legitimate discussion.

    *crosses fingers* ;)

  39. phranctoast:

    *more like mobile*

  40. CarlB:

    “6.5M is entirely possible in the five month period the PS4 is out.”

    6.5M in that time period is better than Wii did in it’s first five months. That doesn’t sound very realistic.

    “the draw and immense hype of the next gen.It’s pretty evident now.”

    Compared to how this gen launched with 360, Wii, and PS3, it seems as though there is less draw and hype this time around.

    “I dont think the share button should be so easily dismissed.”

    I’m sure it is appealing to some, but personally it has little draw. It certainly has nowhere near the draw 360′s achievement system did at the beginning of this gen.

    “PS4 game too”
    Every game that is “also” on PS4 gives people who have a perfectly good working PS3/360 even less reason to buy at launch. This time around there isn’t nearly as pronounced a difference in graphics as PS1-PS2 or PS2-PS3.

    “I’d be more interested in talking about how Sony can steal NA marketshare from Microsofts dominance from this gen.”

    Even if WiiU and Infinity sell worse than Gamecube and the original XBox did, I doubt Sony could ever reach PS2 like numbers again.

    OT: I had picked up Jetpack Joyride awhile back for free on iPod Touch and just now got around to it. It was surprisingly enjoyable. Went ahead and downloaded it today for free on Vita and PS3 as well. Worth a try.

  41. CarlB:

    The PS3 version of Jetpack Joyride seems like a decent preview of how something like Ouya/Gamestick/GamePop would look on a big screen HDTV.

  42. phranctoast:

    “6.5M in that time period is better than Wii did in it’s first five months. That doesn’t sound very realistic.”

    Wii did have shortages at launch. Same thing could be said of 360, and PS3.

    “Compared to how this gen launched with 360, Wii, and PS3, it seems as though there is less draw and hype this time around.”

    Excluding nintnendo’s poor Wii U debut vs the Wii, I’d have to disagree with you as to how I gauged PS4 hype, as infinite(y) has been stirring negativity, but thats all premature given it hasnt officially been revealed.

    “I’m sure it is appealing to some, but personally it has little draw. It certainly has nowhere near the draw 360?s achievement system did at the beginning of this gen.”

    It may very well turn into the next big thing like achievements. Nextbox is already rumored to steal the idea.

    “This time around there isn’t nearly as pronounced a difference in graphics as PS1-PS2 or PS2-PS3.”

    Developers have been saying otherwise.

    “Every game that is “also” on PS4 gives people who have a perfectly good working PS3/360 even less reason to buy at launch

    But also an itch that can only be scratched by playing the definitive version.

    “Even if WiiU and Infinity sell worse than Gamecube and the original XBox did, I doubt Sony could ever reach PS2 like numbers again.”

    Don’t have to be the next Beatles to be great. Personally, I think the gaming populace has just been growing generation to generation (check it)

  43. phranctoast:

    @Capt.

    In case you want to throw in on the new discussion.

    “A post I sent out titled, What does Sony and the PS4 have to do to win back NA from MS. Some of them are ideas for that, and some of them are just good ideas.
    -Cross game chat and party chat.
    -Standardized clan system.
    -Making sure they don’t give MS a year head start to get a solid fanbase.
    -Locking some exclusive content for popular FPS’s such as the COD franchise or BF.
    -Having backward compatibility from the start, even if it’s just optional.
    -Releasing two SKU’s. One Digital only, the other with physical media.
    -Maintaining the current quality of PS+, and advertising it.
    -Don’t release the console at $600. $400 is tolerable. Also release with a subsidized payment option which includes PS+ like MS did with XBLG, only Sony’s actually hold true value.
    -Release two types of controllers. One original Dual Shock layout. Another with Dpad and Analog switched with 360 type layout. There’s a lot of people that prefer this layout. Don’t make the controller a factor in someone not purchasing your system. Also gives more options to sell hardware (controllers) before a third party jumps on it.
    -Headsets in each purchase… Not sure. On one hand it’s something less you can sell, on the other, it helps establish a better feeling of community. I’ve always preferred to keep the headset away from a-hats and keep it in the hands of people serious about playing online.
    -Lock in some new exclusive content early on. Agent could be the answer to this.
    -Have Planetside 2 a launch game.
    -Create a digital rental system so as to directly compete with third party systems like Gamefly. In fact, work with MS, and Nintendo to establish a deal like what happens with Netfix where Gamefly doesn’t see new games until a month in allowing digital game sales to sour for early adopters while making premium on games you create.
    -Don’t eliminate second hand sales but figure a way to make your product more desirable with incentives. Ect. Buy new and get the first map pack, other DLC for free, but then don’t release that until a month after game releases prompting people to keep their games out of second hand stores until they get the free DLC coming their way.
    -All first party games come with a month voucher for PS+ that “add on” to your current sub if you have one.
    -Have an exclusive IP that is tailored to 12 year olds. I hate to say it, but get them, you get NA, as they’re the ones going to be getting a high percentage of games for the following 8 years.
    -Try and produce another very popular/great sports franchise like MLB The show. NBA sounds good. Being made by two teams and not one like they did before.”

  44. CarlB:

    “It may very well turn into the next big thing like achievements. Nextbox is already rumored to steal the idea.”

    It could be a big thing, I just don’t think it will be “as” big as achievements/trophies is. At the very least it will save several people from having a video capture unit to post videos to YouTube and lower the bar for everyone else. It will also certainly help some people in obtaining hard to get trophies.

    I’m glad Sony “stole” the idea of achievements from 360 (though not so much that it took them so long to finally do so), and if this happens to be a massively popular feature like achievements was, then I think it’s good that Microsoft implements it in turn, the sooner the better.

    “Developers have been saying otherwise.”

    It seems as though it would be in their best interests to.

    “But also an itch that can only be scratched by playing the definitive version.”

    I’m thinking that will be a niche itch, and one that can wait a while.

    “I think the gaming populace has just been growing generation to generation”

    I think that was in large part due to Wii luring in “casuals”, which in turn probably shifted back to mobiles which took off this gen. I don’t think there will be any significant growth at all for the traditional home console market next gen over this one, while portables are already taking the hit.

  45. CarlB:

    I thought that character looked familiar… Barry Steakfries.

  46. phranctoast:

    “It could be a big thing, I just don’t think it will be “as” big as achievements/trophies is.”

    I had the same pessimism when I first heard about it but then listening to people talk about the possibilities online, and a dev talking about it with the dev kit.

    The way it looks, it could stream gameplay sessions while others play have huge potential. Especially legitimizing gaming leagues and competitive gaming to the masses via consoles.

    “I’m glad Sony “stole” the idea of achievements from 360 ”

    Me too. The standardization of this feature could have a similar impact of bringing ideas that existed to the masses.

    “It seems as though it would be in their best interests to.”

    True, but they would know best.

    “I’m thinking that will be a niche itch, and one that can wait a while.”

    “Niche itch” made me lol. I guess we’ll have to wait and see. I know if i planned on going next gen, these games would make me consider puchasing them for the new system instead.

    “I think that was in large part due to Wii luring in “casuals”, which in turn probably shifted back to mobiles which took off this gen”

    100M+80M+77M= 257M > last gen.

    I think mobile will increase these numbers more by creating more gamers wanting additional options. Sony and MS appear to believe they will compliment each other more than compete.

  47. CarlB:

    “True, but they would know best.”

    True, but they wouldn’t necessarily tell you what they know if it went against their best interests.

    “100M+80M+77M= 257M > last gen.”

    The 100M is Wii, right? I think if mobile was going to increase console sales they would have done so by now. Instead we saw a 25% decrease year over year last year for consoles. Barry Steakfries says hi.

  48. phranctoast:

    “True, but they wouldn’t necessarily tell you what they know if it went against their best interests.”

    You were quick enough to post quotes from mobile game developers and even a CEO as evidence in your ‘consoles are losing out to mobile’ point.

    Wonder why it’s so difficult to imagine these guys are telling the truth about the step up in performance from one gen to another.

    “The 100M is Wii, right? ”
    Yes. Soon to be the PS3′s amount. 1st place ;)

  49. CarlB:

    “You were quick enough to post quotes from mobile game developers and even a CEO as evidence in your ‘consoles are losing out to mobile’ point.”

    Indeed. I posted quotes with links and then backed them up with other links that did not quote mobile game developers or CEO’s. You have done none of this here.

    Of course there is a “step up”, but did they actually measure the step up and contrast it to the step up that this gen represented over last? Link.

    “Yes. Soon to be the PS3?s amount. 1st place”

    Great. That means even more dev support for PS3 late in it’s life and one more reason for slower adoption of the PS4. ;)

    “Under the new platform, users will be able to download and upload data at speeds of up to tens of gigabits per second (Gbps), compared to 75 megabits per second (Mbps) posted by the fourth-generation long-term evolution (LTE) service.”

    http://www.kurzweilai.net/samsung-to-offer-5g-service-by-2020?utm_source=KurzweilAI+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=ebe06c5078-UA-946742-1&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6de721fb33-ebe06c5078-282040530

  50. CarlB:

    “The report cites the, ‘Under-performance of major titles for consumer game consoles in North America and Europe’, as a key factor.”
    h**p://www.vg247.com/2013/05/13/square-enix-financials-%C2%A513-7-million-loss-cites-competitive-console-market/

    “…importantly, consumer purchase intent in a world where consoles are no longer just competing with each other, but also with new platforms, such as smartphones and tablets”
    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/123932-Activision-CEO-Worried-NextBox-PS4-May-Have-Slow-Start#bwFQXes0Szebpw4K.99

    h**p://techcrunch.com/2013/05/12/what-games-are-there-is-no-iron-throne-of-games-any-more/

    h**p://techcrunch.com/2013/05/11/home-console-gaming-may-suffer-death-by-a-thousand-cuts-rather-than-a-major-revolution/

    h**p://www.tomshardware.com/news/Tegra-4-Tegra-4i-Jen-Hsun-Huang-SlateBook-Project-Shield,22523.html

  51. CarlB:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eDkIthBjRI8#t=197s

  52. dans:

    “Thanks for the Timberlake tip Danny Boy. Pretty good.”

    @birdman

    I’m glad you enjoyed it mate! JT and Frank Ocean are all I’m listening to right now.

    More JT if you’re interested:

    http://www.mrworldpremiere.net/2013/03/justin-timberlake-medley-jimmy-fallon.html

  53. phranctoast:

    “Indeed. I posted quotes with links and then backed them up with other links that did not quote mobile game developers or CEO’s. You have done none of this here.

    Of course there is a “step up”, but did they actually measure the step up and contrast it to the step up that this gen represented over last? Link.”

    Posting links about this is irrelevant. Even if I did post links you would still question these people speaking out against their own best interests. Do I need to find someone who’s not developing for next gen to say it’s a large step up? How would they know? How could they be trusted to know, if they’re not making games for it?

    Yet that gets completely ignored when it’s a mobile game developer or mobile CEO making claims you agree with.

    Why would you not question their interests?

    No need to answer. I know the answer already.

    Oh.. btw, that link about Activision’s Kotick is the biggest steaming pile of shit ever. There’s so many differences between the Wii U launch and true next gen that it destroys any credibility there could ever be in the article.

  54. CarlB:

    “Posting links about this is irrelevant.”

    Either you have a source for your assumption or you don’t. Either it has merit or it doesn’t.

    “Even if I did post links you would still question these people speaking out against their own best interests.”

    Not if they used a good standard of measure that was quantifiable.

    “Why would you not question their interests?”

    I did. That’s why I found other links from sources that were outside their interests.

    “There’s so many differences between the Wii U launch and true next gen that it destroys any credibility there could ever be in the article.”

    WiiU is “next gen” for Nintendo and compared to Wii. As for PS4 and Infinity, we don’t even have launch dates as yet, and saying either one of them might have “slow adoption” (the gist of the article) is perfectly reasonable considering the state of the market.

    “The biggest risk associated with consoles, at least to me, is that they’re frozen, hardware-wise, while mobile platforms – phones and tablets – will continue to get more and more powerful.”

    http://www.vg247.com/2013/04/08/spector-console-hardware-is-frozen-while-mobile-tablet-continue-to-evolve/

  55. phranctoast:

    Sorry. I just don’t have the time to sift through links on my phone, and I’m too busy at work while most games sites are blocked anyway.

    You’ll just have to take my word on it that the PS4 is a significant jump from the PS3. One can also look at the specs and come to the same conclusion. The hardware in there is comparable to top on the line PC’s now. Top of the line PC’s now blow the current gen out of the water in graphical fidelity.

    What does in matter anyway? You already played your hand. I know what you’ll say to any link by your first reply after I said “game developers say otherwise”
    And all this doesn’t negate the fact that you have a higher degree of belief that these guys are in a conflict of interest than mobile game developers or a mobile CEO who are obviously in a conflict of interest.

    It’s outright laughable how inconsistent you can be.

    “and saying either one of them might have “slow adoption” (the gist of the article) is perfectly reasonable considering the state of the market. ”

    He used the Wii U as a gauge, and the Wii U is terrible. Most people think it’s a peripheral. On top of that it has no game support. PS3/Nxtbox won’t have the same issues.

    “The biggest risk associated with consoles, at least to me, is that they’re frozen, hardware-wise, while mobile platforms – phones and tablets – will continue to get more and more powerful.”

    Frozen hardware wise. Awesome. So I don’t need to buy a new console every year to get the most up to date games. Sounds great. Thank you for the article.

  56. CarlB:

    “You’ll just have to take my word on it that the PS4 is a significant jump from the PS3.”

    No I won’t, because I already believe it is and never said otherwise. What I did say is that the “jump” is probably not as discernible to the majority of gamers as the jump was from PS2 to PS3. If the title is something like last year’s Game of the Year, Journey, specs on paper aren’t really going to make a whit of difference for those type of titles, whereas the AAA blockbusters such as Tomb Raider and BioShock Infinite may have some increased framerate and resolution with a bit more sparks and detail, but nothing that is going to change the game experience itself significantly, as the senior producer of Watchdogs stated.

    “…the fact that you have a higher degree of belief that these guys are in a conflict of interest than mobile game developers or a mobile CEO who are obviously in a conflict of interest.”

    The difference is you haven’t backed up your assumption with any links or other sources, and I have.

    “He used the Wii U as a gauge, and the Wii U is terrible.”

    The Wii U is one gauge that he was quoted on, but he could have used a slew of others. A 25% decline in games consoles year over year is another. PS3 estimated to have lost billions since launch and the Playstation division as a whole still losing money 7 years after PS3′s launch is another. Big titles like Tomb Raider, Sleeping Dogs, and Hitman: Absolution, even though selling several million units combined, not selling enough to make a significant profit is another. Titles such as Journey and Guacamelee earning awards such as Game of the Year or being bestsellers on PSN is another. Companies such as Nintendo and Sony who once scoffed at mobile games now courting mobile game developers is another. The sheer amount of developers who left the big three’s nonsense to develop for open platforms is another.

    “So I don’t need to buy a new console every year to get the most up to date games.”

    I don’t suspect you will need to do that with this either, and you can play pc games such as StarCraft, Diablo, and Civ, on it as well, which are not available for consoles:

    http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-edge-pro

    You’re welcome.

  57. CarlB:

    “The PS4 will feature an X86 CPU, enhanced PC GPU, 8GB unified memory, local HD and GDDR 5 system memory. What that means in layman’s terms is that the PS4 will be significantly more powerful than the PS3, but don’t expect the same graphical leap as was experienced between the PS2 and PS3.”

    http://herocomplex.latimes.com/games/ps4-10-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-ps4/#/0

  58. CarlB:

    “Converted into US dollars, Sony’s losses (PS3 only) stand at $4.5 billion for the PS3 generation. Microsoft, in contrast, has lost about $2.6 billion (360 only).”

    http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/150892-nvidia-gave-amd-ps4-because-console-margins-are-terrible/2

  59. phranctoast:

    “The difference is you haven’t backed up your assumption with any links or other sources, and I have.”

    Not much of an assumption when you already accepted it as fact, by claiming “It seems as though it would be in their best interests to.” making links/proof backing my statement unneccesary.
    You already accepted it and questioned it. My point being is you never…not once questioned that Mobile developers of mobile CEO’s “best interest”
    What’s good for goose, is not good for the gander I guess….

    “The Wii U is one gauge that he was quoted on, but he could have used a slew of others…………………..”

    It’s probably best that he didn’t use any of those others as the piece was already poor enough without such ridiculous reasons.

  60. Roca.:

    Sony Confirms No PlayStation 4 Delay: Console Coming to Japan, UK and US This Year

    http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/467668/20130515/playstation-4-release-date-delay-launch-specs.htm#.UZOreys-ZW0

    6.5M before March seems like it’s a given now

  61. CarlB:

    “Not much of an assumption when you already accepted it as fact, by claiming ‘It seems as though it would be in their best interests to.’ making links/proof backing my statement unneccesary.”

    I accepted it was an assumption made by you and that it might have been a statement made by them in their best interests, never “as fact”.

    “My point being is you never…not once questioned that Mobile developers of mobile CEO’s ‘best interest’”

    My point being that you already did question it, I accepted that questioning, and subsequently posted links from sources outside of mobile developers and mobile CEO’s with no quotes from them.

  62. CarlB:

    “Next-Gen: Consoles Aren’t ‘Must-Have Gadgets’ Anymore

    “‘The question is: do I want to cash my current generation in for the new generation?’ asked Molyneux. ‘There’s definitely a price sensitivity. They’re not the must-have gadgets they used to be.’

    Livingstone agreed, adding that the ‘platform of choice for indies and consumers is smartphones and tablets.’”

    http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1926149/nextgen_consoles_arent_musthave_gadgets_anymore.html

  63. Godless:

    Carl

    The last article is posted from the point of view of a couple of small developers.

    It’s beyond obvious why they’re not overly fussed about the new console, because the odds are they won’t make easy money from it with a lame ass mini game.

    The Next gen console is a must have for “real gamers” and by that I mean those who don’t want the gaming experience to consist of just Angry birds and jet pack joy ride type games. While those type games are fun for short time fillers they are no substitute for Skyrim, Tomb Raider, Gears of war, Battlefield Etc, etc, etc.

    Carl not every one wants to play shity games, and next gen consoles & high end PCs will be the best platform for the devs to produce the best gaming experience.
    Just as soon as there are enough games worth playing as next gen, any “real gamer” will want to have one. If at launch the have enough new capabilities, any “real gamer” will want to have one.

    Small time devs telling us “real gamers” that “next gen is not a must have”. .are basically full of shit. They can produce as many shit mini games as they like, odds are I’ll never see one, unless it’s good enough to make it onto a proper console, in which case I just might.

  64. phranctoast:

    http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1925975/ps4_weve_only_scratched_the_surface.html

    h**p://www.nowgamer.com/news/1917420/nextgen_graphics_will_blow_you_away.html

  65. CarlB:

    Godless, it wasn’t that long ago you were praising Molyneux’ work, let alone Fruit Ninja lol. Part of the point is that several of these “small developers” were prior successful console developers, and several older console games are now having a much more successful life on mobile than they ever did on consoles.

    GL not everyone needs, or even wants, a big home box console to play great games like GTA: Vice City, Dead Space, Dead Trigger, The World Ends With You, Bastion, GTA III, Final Fantasy I-V, or FFT: War of the Lions, and if you think those are “shitty” mini-games then you really have no idea what you are talking about.

    But those are just the games are available on low power mobile devices. Almost everything you can play on a pc or console (minus some exclusives) you can now play on a tablet, which does a lot more than just play games or movies while gathering dust next to your tv.

    “real gamers” aren’t defined by whether or not they have a box sitting next to the TV, they are “real gamers” as long as they play great games, no matter what device they play them on.

    “While those type games are fun for short time fillers they are no substitute for Skyrim, Tomb Raider, Gears of war, Battlefield Etc, etc, etc.”

    Yes, you can play all of those with the Razer Edge tablet or Surface Pro now.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tWm93wUTXc

    “Battlefield 4′s Frostbite 3 game engine goes mobile”
    h**p://www.engadget.com/2013/05/14/frostbite-go/

  66. Godless:

    Carl your missing the point

    ! The razor edge tablet is not able to play games as well as the xbox 360. Add to that, it costs around 5 times as much.

    The next gen consoles will surpass the performance of any tablet for maybe 2 to 3 years. by the time tablets can match the processing power, Sony and MS may well be looking into a mobile variant of the consoles themselves, (maybe that’s why they went with a mobile CPU/GPU type platform, but you can bet that it will cost several times as much as the living room version.

    There will always be a market for gaming consoles, even if in the future it is difficult to separate console form Tablet a PC or even a TV.

    I can see in the next few years even smart TVs coming with something like the Ouya (or better) built in for gaming further blurring the lines between what the hardware actually is and which demographic it is targeted at ..

    Speaking of powerful smart TVs..anyone got a Samsung planing to get the evolution kit for it.

    http://www.trustedreviews.com/samsung-2013-smart-tv-platform-part-2_TV_review

  67. CarlB:

    GL you’re missing the point.

    The Razer Edge just came out this year. I’m talking about devices 8-24 years from now. I’m not talking about the next gen of consoles, I’m talking about the three gens after that. Sony and Microsoft already have their own line of tablets which can act as consoles, they’re just incredibly underutilized for games at the moment, and maybe even purposefully so in order to extend the myth that only home box consoles can play good games.

    There will “always” be a market for games. Not so much for oversized boxes that sit next to a tv. CPU’s and GPU’s that can play games, once only the domain of PC’s and home box consoles, can and will continue to be integrated into other devices such as tablets and smart TV’s, while the home box consoles shrink and fade away in the future.

    “I can see in the next few years even smart TVs coming with something like the Ouya (or better) built in for gaming further blurring the lines between what the hardware actually is and which demographic it is targeted at ..”

    This is exactly what I’m saying. Now project what you can see “in the next few years” out 24 years.

  68. CarlB:

    As for price now, since the inception of iOS/Android devices they both have outstripped consoles in general, but that hasn’t stopped people from buying them in much more massive amounts than consoles could ever hope to attain. The price will only decrease in the future as performance continues to increase annually. The same is true for smart TV’s.

  69. Roca.:

    “As for price now, since the inception of iOS/Android devices they both have outstripped consoles in general, but that hasn’t stopped people from buying them in much more massive amounts than consoles could ever hope to attain”

    same goes for computers, but it doesn’t mean people buying iOS/Android devices (or even PCs, such as the Razer Edge) use them for gaming.

  70. CarlB:

    “it doesn’t mean people buying iOS/Android devices (or even PCs, such as the Razer Edge) use them for gaming.”

    “Google survey finds games trump all other uses for tablets
    Research finds that 84% of tablet owners are playing games, versus 51% who are consuming music and videos”
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/appsblog/2011/apr/08/tablets-mainly-for-games-survey

  71. Godless:

    Carl surveys can tell you what ever you want the results to be.

    I’ll bet 100% of tablet owners use the device for browsing the internet more than anything other activity. Put facebook and other such benign pass-times as a close second, then viewing porn at third(for male owners anyway)

    % minutes on Angry birds or slide square at dinner break. .is not “Real Gaming”

    The number of tablet owners spending more than just a couple of quid on any one game is very small indeed.

  72. CarlB:

    “Games (67%), Entertainment (9%) and News (2%) categories which account for nearly four-fifths of consumption on tablets.”
    http://blog.flurry.com/bid/90987/The-Truth-About-Cats-and-Dogs-Smartphone-vs-Tablet-Usage-Differences

    % hours spent on any of the available Final Fantasies or GTA’s anytime throughout the day anywhere you go… is “Real Gaming”.

    “Average revenue from users in the US breaks through $12″
    h**p://www.develop-online.net/news/44213/Mobile-game-players-spending-more-than-ever-research-claims

  73. CarlB:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=pTc1JAFbg18#t=60s

  74. CarlB:

    27-inch tablet
    “Intel Core i3-3227U, the Core i5-3337U, or the i7-3537U, depending on your budget. Two SODIMM slots support up to 8 GB of DDR3 RAM at 1600 MHz, and GPU options include Nvidia’s GeForce GT 620M with 1 GB of DDR3 VRAM or 2 GB.

    On the storage front, there are three options including a 750 GB HDD, a 1 TB HDD, or a 1 TB HDD and 8 GB SSD combo. Also thrown into the mix is a 6-in-1 multi-card reader, an integrated 720p HD webcam with Mic Array, Bluetooth 4.0, and 802.11 b/g/n single-band wireless connectivity. Additional connectors include HDMI input, two USB 3.0 ports, and headphone and microphone jacks.”

    http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ideacentre-Table-PC-Horizon-Core-i7-Geforce-GT-620M,22110.html

  75. Godless:

    @Carl

    LMAO

    from the Article: -

    “with a starting price of $1,699.”

    STARTING PRICE!. WTF! . .bet that figure would rise to £2,500 for top of the range, and you know what? Next year it still won’t play the top end PC games worth a shit.

    Carl, these devices are no threat to consoles at all. they are a very niche market for tech-head PC nerds, with a lot of spare cash.

    In a few of years time when the next gen consoles are getting better & better games year after year, the expensive tablet will be an over priced web browser, struggling to run any new games and struggling to run any old ones due the the usual PC cancer they all suffer from, unless you can be arsed doing a system restore every 6 months to keep it performing at its best.

    I’ll pass. .same as I did 6 years ago, and stick with consoles for gaming.

  76. CarlB:

    “bet that figure would rise to £2,500 for top of the range”

    Actually, it’s $1849:

    http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/catalog.workflow:category.details?current-catalog-id=12F0696583E04D86B9B79B0FEC01C087&current-category-id=64BE3F93775AE35BA6F89D9A84BC2DF4&iPromoID=bannerHorizon&

    Steam and Google Play will both have evolved even more than they already have in a few years to further mitigate what were once common PC problems with gaming.

  77. CarlB:

    3rd Generation Intel Core i7-3537U Processor (2GHz 1600MHz 4MB)
    Windows 8 64
    NVIDIA GeForce GT620M 2GB
    8.0GB PC3-12800 DDR3 SDRAM 1600 MHz
    27″ All In One FHD Anti-Glare with Multi-touch 1920×1080
    Wireless Keyboard and Mouse (Silver)
    1TB 5400 rpm
    8 Cell Lithium-Polymer
    Broadcom 11b/g/n Wi-Fi wireless
    One year
    Integrated 720P HD Camera
    None
    6-in-1 Card Reader
    HDMI (In)
    1 eDice + 4 Strikers + 4 Joysticks

  78. phranctoast:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-earns-2-billion-per-year-from-android-patent-royalties-2013-11

    Microsoft is generating $2 billion per year in revenue from Android patent royalties, says Nomura analyst Rick Sherlund in a new note on the company.

    He estimates that the Android revenue has a 95% margin, so it’s pretty much all profit.

    This money, says Sherlund, helps Microsoft hide the fact that its mobile and Xbox groups are burning serious cash.

    For the past few years, Microsoft reported the revenue and operating losses of Entertainment and Devices, which was the group that housed Xbox, Windows Phone, and those Android royalty payments.

    That group always seemed to be profitable, but Sherlund says it’s largely because of the Android money.

    Sherlund says that if you back out the Android profits, Microsoft is probably losing $2.5 billion on Skype, Xbox, and Windows Phone. Of that, $2 billion in losses are attributable to the Xbox platform.

    Sherlund believes Microsoft needs to spin out Xbox. He sees it as an orphan group at Microsoft that doesn’t really fit with anything it’s doing.

    Investors are blind to Xbox’s struggles, says Sherlund, because they are “concealed by the hugely profitable Android royalties.”

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